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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8591
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
I rather not have a guy who quit on two nfl teams leading this team. Yes im a palmer hater. Dont mind admitting that at all.

lol he didnt quit on us. We said we dont want to pay you what we agreed to because our team sucks and we didnt win. lol


no we said you shouldnt be making elite qb money on a team you cant get more than 5 wins on. Didnt he restructure for the cardinals though. He forced his way out just like with the bengals. Take ball and go home.

That is your opinion and no way based on facts. I believe he was willing to restructure just not what they were asking. In fact we know that he did listen and was negociating with them. But we have no idea what they offered and the fact that they jumped on Flynn so fast and DA and Reggie said they had talked about Flynn many times implies this was more coming from them than Palmer.

And maybe he shouldnt be making that money but that is what the team agreed to. To imply he was in breach is completley false. He didnt say give me a new contract with more money or I am leaving. He said, "worst case" pay me what we agreed upon already.


Your opinion isn't based on facts either though.

The facts. He retired from bengals cause he wanted out
He restructured contract when bengals trading him to us
We ask him to restructure.
He said no
He got traded to cardinals
He restructured his contract for cardinals for trade to work.

I got with my version of the story over yours based on track record. But you right it's all opinions.

I said nothing about what happened with the Bengals.
And he did not say no to a restructure. He said no to what the Raiders offered.

And I will have to look for it but I believe what they offered had no gaurenteed money and Palmers agent advised him against doing that.

Not accepting a bad offer does not equal forcing your way out.

And it is a fact that he played to win when the season was already lost putting his career in jeopardy. While he could have easily taken the Seymour route and dogged it or just stayed on the sidelines.


We asked Seymour not to come back, so we wouldn't have to pay him. It was a mutual. We going to have to agree to disagree.

I agree to disagree. On Seymour I am not talking about him being kept I am talking about him not playing for the team once the season was lost unlike Palmer.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21247
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
I rather not have a guy who quit on two nfl teams leading this team. Yes im a palmer hater. Dont mind admitting that at all.

lol he didnt quit on us. We said we dont want to pay you what we agreed to because our team sucks and we didnt win. lol


no we said you shouldnt be making elite qb money on a team you cant get more than 5 wins on. Didnt he restructure for the cardinals though. He forced his way out just like with the bengals. Take ball and go home.

That is your opinion and no way based on facts. I believe he was willing to restructure just not what they were asking. In fact we know that he did listen and was negociating with them. But we have no idea what they offered and the fact that they jumped on Flynn so fast and DA and Reggie said they had talked about Flynn many times implies this was more coming from them than Palmer.

And maybe he shouldnt be making that money but that is what the team agreed to. To imply he was in breach is completley false. He didnt say give me a new contract with more money or I am leaving. He said, "worst case" pay me what we agreed upon already.


Your opinion isn't based on facts either though.

The facts. He retired from bengals cause he wanted out
He restructured contract when bengals trading him to us
We ask him to restructure.
He said no
He got traded to cardinals
He restructured his contract for cardinals for trade to work.

I got with my version of the story over yours based on track record. But you right it's all opinions.

I said nothing about what happened with the Bengals.
And he did not say no to a restructure. He said no to what the Raiders offered.

And I will have to look for it but I believe what they offered had no gaurenteed money and Palmers agent advised him against doing that.

Not accepting a bad offer does not equal forcing your way out.

And it is a fact that he played to win when the season was already lost putting his career in jeopardy. While he could have easily taken the Seymour route and dogged it or just stayed on the sidelines.


We asked Seymour not to come back, so we wouldn't have to pay him. It was a mutual. We going to have to agree to disagree.

I agree to disagree. On Seymour I am not talking about him being kept I am talking about him not playing for the team once the season was lost unlike Palmer.


That's what I'm talking about. Seymour didnt want to be here and we told him he could stay home. We didnt want to have to pay that extra money if he played the games or snaps. I can't remember exactly how it went.. But his contract was voided since he didnt play a certain amount of games. It was a mutual thing. You want to be gone and we don't want to pay you so just stay home.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8591
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
I rather not have a guy who quit on two nfl teams leading this team. Yes im a palmer hater. Dont mind admitting that at all.

lol he didnt quit on us. We said we dont want to pay you what we agreed to because our team sucks and we didnt win. lol


no we said you shouldnt be making elite qb money on a team you cant get more than 5 wins on. Didnt he restructure for the cardinals though. He forced his way out just like with the bengals. Take ball and go home.

That is your opinion and no way based on facts. I believe he was willing to restructure just not what they were asking. In fact we know that he did listen and was negociating with them. But we have no idea what they offered and the fact that they jumped on Flynn so fast and DA and Reggie said they had talked about Flynn many times implies this was more coming from them than Palmer.

And maybe he shouldnt be making that money but that is what the team agreed to. To imply he was in breach is completley false. He didnt say give me a new contract with more money or I am leaving. He said, "worst case" pay me what we agreed upon already.


Your opinion isn't based on facts either though.

The facts. He retired from bengals cause he wanted out
He restructured contract when bengals trading him to us
We ask him to restructure.
He said no
He got traded to cardinals
He restructured his contract for cardinals for trade to work.

I got with my version of the story over yours based on track record. But you right it's all opinions.

I said nothing about what happened with the Bengals.
And he did not say no to a restructure. He said no to what the Raiders offered.

And I will have to look for it but I believe what they offered had no gaurenteed money and Palmers agent advised him against doing that.

Not accepting a bad offer does not equal forcing your way out.

And it is a fact that he played to win when the season was already lost putting his career in jeopardy. While he could have easily taken the Seymour route and dogged it or just stayed on the sidelines.


We asked Seymour not to come back, so we wouldn't have to pay him. It was a mutual. We going to have to agree to disagree.

I agree to disagree. On Seymour I am not talking about him being kept I am talking about him not playing for the team once the season was lost unlike Palmer.


That's what I'm talking about. Seymour didnt want to be here and we told him he could stay home. We didnt want to have to pay that extra money if he played the games or snaps. I can't remember exactly how it went.. But his contract was voided since he didnt play a certain amount of games. It was a mutual thing. You want to be gone and we don't want to pay you so just stay home.


The contract had a void for this season however we still had to pay him money and the full amount still counting 14 million against the cap. The fact that we told him to stay home has not been said anywhere. And we paid him anyways this year to stay home. He may have decided on his own to so that it would void but it would not have cost us much more than it did if anything anyways.

If what you say is true we have more issues than I thought.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21247
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
I rather not have a guy who quit on two nfl teams leading this team. Yes im a palmer hater. Dont mind admitting that at all.

lol he didnt quit on us. We said we dont want to pay you what we agreed to because our team sucks and we didnt win. lol


no we said you shouldnt be making elite qb money on a team you cant get more than 5 wins on. Didnt he restructure for the cardinals though. He forced his way out just like with the bengals. Take ball and go home.

That is your opinion and no way based on facts. I believe he was willing to restructure just not what they were asking. In fact we know that he did listen and was negociating with them. But we have no idea what they offered and the fact that they jumped on Flynn so fast and DA and Reggie said they had talked about Flynn many times implies this was more coming from them than Palmer.

And maybe he shouldnt be making that money but that is what the team agreed to. To imply he was in breach is completley false. He didnt say give me a new contract with more money or I am leaving. He said, "worst case" pay me what we agreed upon already.


Your opinion isn't based on facts either though.

The facts. He retired from bengals cause he wanted out
He restructured contract when bengals trading him to us
We ask him to restructure.
He said no
He got traded to cardinals
He restructured his contract for cardinals for trade to work.

I got with my version of the story over yours based on track record. But you right it's all opinions.

I said nothing about what happened with the Bengals.
And he did not say no to a restructure. He said no to what the Raiders offered.

And I will have to look for it but I believe what they offered had no gaurenteed money and Palmers agent advised him against doing that.

Not accepting a bad offer does not equal forcing your way out.

And it is a fact that he played to win when the season was already lost putting his career in jeopardy. While he could have easily taken the Seymour route and dogged it or just stayed on the sidelines.


We asked Seymour not to come back, so we wouldn't have to pay him. It was a mutual. We going to have to agree to disagree.

I agree to disagree. On Seymour I am not talking about him being kept I am talking about him not playing for the team once the season was lost unlike Palmer.


That's what I'm talking about. Seymour didnt want to be here and we told him he could stay home. We didnt want to have to pay that extra money if he played the games or snaps. I can't remember exactly how it went.. But his contract was voided since he didnt play a certain amount of games. It was a mutual thing. You want to be gone and we don't want to pay you so just stay home.


The contract had a void for this season however we still had to pay him money and the full amount still counting 14 million against the cap. The fact that we told him to stay home has not been said anywhere. And we paid him anyways this year to stay home. He may have decided on his own to so that it would void but it would not have cost us much more than it did if anything anyways.

If what you say is true we have more issues than I thought.


If we wanted him back why didnt we force his hand and bring him back.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14694
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:

you sound absolutely crushed that tp is starting lol. take it easy ole sig buddy who shares my b-day.

i could sware you put cp over the organization. losing didnt matter to you and others as long as cp was the qb. sorry for wanting to win and recognizing that certain qbs arent getting it done. if tp doesnt get it done then ill pound the table for someone to replace him.

you must have me confused. how is me being critical of qbs such as cp and flynn viewed as unsupportive. i just want to win im not going to support losers.

i also love how you and other dudes try to act all innocent now like you never threw shots at tp. Laughing


Sorry NCOUGH.... but WTF are you talking about?

You supported the biggest loser ever (Russel) and still make excuses for him to this day. You talk about wanting to win, but you wanted to start Matt Leinart over Palmer a season ago! And when Russel was sucking it up in the most embarrassing way imaginable I don't recall you "pounding the table for someone to replace him".

You will make excuses for Pryor all day long before you'll want him replaced. Let's just be real here.
check jr and cps win loss records in oak then get back to me.

Sorry cp never impressed me.


Check the win/loss records of the Raiders since 2002 and get back to me.

I don't care who the QB is. The Raiders poor drafting and FA moves over the last decade have yielded next to nothing talent wise to build around. They've literally had no pass rush since Burgess left. They've been unable to stop the run for about 10 years. There hasn't been a consistent WR since Rice and Brown had their run. The Oline has been below average on it's best years since 2002.

There isn't a QB who could win w/ the supporting casts that have been assembled in Oakland since 2002. Factor in the revolving door of coaching changes and it's an absolute cesspool in Oakland.

Fact is, Palmer did more w/ less than most QBs in Oakland and was the best passer in Oakland since Gannon. No running game, bad OC, poor pass blocking Oline, no go to WR and one of the worst defenses in recent memory. You expected him to win w/ that??

And please spare me the 8-8 seasons and Jason Campbell's w/l record when the division was a joke and McFadden was carrying the team.
exactly so if all our abs have sucked since 2002 why rag on the youngest jr but show patience for the oldest cp when the both produced similar amounts of wins.

Ps: sorry s&b for reloading the jr cp talk its all bps fault lol
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DirtyHarry


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 1745
Location: Foster City,CA
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why wasn't he patient ? How bout showing up to camp put of shape even though al gave him a strict weight limit. How bout the whole blank disc with the gameplan thing. Falling asleep in meetings.
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38-10 Chargers

This game should definitely bring some lulz from the Raiders side.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8591
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
I rather not have a guy who quit on two nfl teams leading this team. Yes im a palmer hater. Dont mind admitting that at all.

lol he didnt quit on us. We said we dont want to pay you what we agreed to because our team sucks and we didnt win. lol


no we said you shouldnt be making elite qb money on a team you cant get more than 5 wins on. Didnt he restructure for the cardinals though. He forced his way out just like with the bengals. Take ball and go home.

That is your opinion and no way based on facts. I believe he was willing to restructure just not what they were asking. In fact we know that he did listen and was negociating with them. But we have no idea what they offered and the fact that they jumped on Flynn so fast and DA and Reggie said they had talked about Flynn many times implies this was more coming from them than Palmer.

And maybe he shouldnt be making that money but that is what the team agreed to. To imply he was in breach is completley false. He didnt say give me a new contract with more money or I am leaving. He said, "worst case" pay me what we agreed upon already.


Your opinion isn't based on facts either though.

The facts. He retired from bengals cause he wanted out
He restructured contract when bengals trading him to us
We ask him to restructure.
He said no
He got traded to cardinals
He restructured his contract for cardinals for trade to work.

I got with my version of the story over yours based on track record. But you right it's all opinions.

I said nothing about what happened with the Bengals.
And he did not say no to a restructure. He said no to what the Raiders offered.

And I will have to look for it but I believe what they offered had no gaurenteed money and Palmers agent advised him against doing that.

Not accepting a bad offer does not equal forcing your way out.

And it is a fact that he played to win when the season was already lost putting his career in jeopardy. While he could have easily taken the Seymour route and dogged it or just stayed on the sidelines.


We asked Seymour not to come back, so we wouldn't have to pay him. It was a mutual. We going to have to agree to disagree.

I agree to disagree. On Seymour I am not talking about him being kept I am talking about him not playing for the team once the season was lost unlike Palmer.


That's what I'm talking about. Seymour didnt want to be here and we told him he could stay home. We didnt want to have to pay that extra money if he played the games or snaps. I can't remember exactly how it went.. But his contract was voided since he didnt play a certain amount of games. It was a mutual thing. You want to be gone and we don't want to pay you so just stay home.


The contract had a void for this season however we still had to pay him money and the full amount still counting 14 million against the cap. The fact that we told him to stay home has not been said anywhere. And we paid him anyways this year to stay home. He may have decided on his own to so that it would void but it would not have cost us much more than it did if anything anyways.

If what you say is true we have more issues than I thought.


If we wanted him back why didnt we force his hand and bring him back.

I didnt say we wanted him back this year. Especially after the crap he pulled last year.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22185
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:

you sound absolutely crushed that tp is starting lol. take it easy ole sig buddy who shares my b-day.

i could sware you put cp over the organization. losing didnt matter to you and others as long as cp was the qb. sorry for wanting to win and recognizing that certain qbs arent getting it done. if tp doesnt get it done then ill pound the table for someone to replace him.

you must have me confused. how is me being critical of qbs such as cp and flynn viewed as unsupportive. i just want to win im not going to support losers.

i also love how you and other dudes try to act all innocent now like you never threw shots at tp. Laughing


Sorry NCOUGH.... but WTF are you talking about?

You supported the biggest loser ever (Russel) and still make excuses for him to this day. You talk about wanting to win, but you wanted to start Matt Leinart over Palmer a season ago! And when Russel was sucking it up in the most embarrassing way imaginable I don't recall you "pounding the table for someone to replace him".

You will make excuses for Pryor all day long before you'll want him replaced. Let's just be real here.
check jr and cps win loss records in oak then get back to me.

Sorry cp never impressed me.


Check the win/loss records of the Raiders since 2002 and get back to me.

I don't care who the QB is. The Raiders poor drafting and FA moves over the last decade have yielded next to nothing talent wise to build around. They've literally had no pass rush since Burgess left. They've been unable to stop the run for about 10 years. There hasn't been a consistent WR since Rice and Brown had their run. The Oline has been below average on it's best years since 2002.

There isn't a QB who could win w/ the supporting casts that have been assembled in Oakland since 2002. Factor in the revolving door of coaching changes and it's an absolute cesspool in Oakland.

Fact is, Palmer did more w/ less than most QBs in Oakland and was the best passer in Oakland since Gannon. No running game, bad OC, poor pass blocking Oline, no go to WR and one of the worst defenses in recent memory. You expected him to win w/ that??

And please spare me the 8-8 seasons and Jason Campbell's w/l record when the division was a joke and McFadden was carrying the team.
exactly so if all our abs have sucked since 2002 why rag on the youngest jr but show patience for the oldest cp when the both produced similar amounts of wins.

Ps: sorry s&b for reloading the jr cp talk its all bps fault lol


Last I will speak on this subject.... Because Russell was a fat, lazy, unmotivated, entitled piece of garbage who was a stain on this franchise. Simple as that. You don't give garbage like that patience.
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CrapTakula


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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:

you sound absolutely crushed that tp is starting lol. take it easy ole sig buddy who shares my b-day.

i could sware you put cp over the organization. losing didnt matter to you and others as long as cp was the qb. sorry for wanting to win and recognizing that certain qbs arent getting it done. if tp doesnt get it done then ill pound the table for someone to replace him.

you must have me confused. how is me being critical of qbs such as cp and flynn viewed as unsupportive. i just want to win im not going to support losers.

i also love how you and other dudes try to act all innocent now like you never threw shots at tp. Laughing


Sorry NCOUGH.... but WTF are you talking about?

You supported the biggest loser ever (Russel) and still make excuses for him to this day. You talk about wanting to win, but you wanted to start Matt Leinart over Palmer a season ago! And when Russel was sucking it up in the most embarrassing way imaginable I don't recall you "pounding the table for someone to replace him".

You will make excuses for Pryor all day long before you'll want him replaced. Let's just be real here.
check jr and cps win loss records in oak then get back to me.

Sorry cp never impressed me.


Check the win/loss records of the Raiders since 2002 and get back to me.

I don't care who the QB is. The Raiders poor drafting and FA moves over the last decade have yielded next to nothing talent wise to build around. They've literally had no pass rush since Burgess left. They've been unable to stop the run for about 10 years. There hasn't been a consistent WR since Rice and Brown had their run. The Oline has been below average on it's best years since 2002.

There isn't a QB who could win w/ the supporting casts that have been assembled in Oakland since 2002. Factor in the revolving door of coaching changes and it's an absolute cesspool in Oakland.

Fact is, Palmer did more w/ less than most QBs in Oakland and was the best passer in Oakland since Gannon. No running game, bad OC, poor pass blocking Oline, no go to WR and one of the worst defenses in recent memory. You expected him to win w/ that??

And please spare me the 8-8 seasons and Jason Campbell's w/l record when the division was a joke and McFadden was carrying the team.
exactly so if all our abs have sucked since 2002 why rag on the youngest jr but show patience for the oldest cp when the both produced similar amounts of wins.

Ps: sorry s&b for reloading the jr cp talk its all bps fault lol


Last I will speak on this subject.... Because Russell was a fat, lazy, unmotivated, entitled piece of garbage who was a stain on this franchise. Simple as that. You don't give garbage like that patience.


patience is for players that are doing their best to do everything they can to contribute to the team. for example, the WR that we over-drafted a few years ago - I was all for keeping him around and giving him the tools to develop and grow as a player because he showed the motivation and work ethic (and yes, I understand that there are those that disagree with me there). but that QB... he never did a thing to show anyone in the organization that he wanted to grow into the player that his amazing physical tools would have let him become. Lazy mentally, lazy emotionally, lazy physically, ain't nobody got time for being patient with him!
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dam jr must have been hella gifted then cause he was dranked out and overwieght and still produced just as many wins with lesser talent around him.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: ATL
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Dam jr must have been hella gifted then cause he was dranked out and overwieght and still produced just as many wins with lesser talent around him.


He had nothing to do w/ the wins. In fact, you could argue that era was one where the defense was moderately decent and a better QB could have gotten them further.
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DirtyHarry


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
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Location: Foster City,CA
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Dam jr must have been hella gifted then cause he was dranked out and overwieght and still produced just as many wins with lesser talent around him.


He had nothing to do w/ the wins. In fact, you could argue that era was one where the defense was moderately decent and a better QB could have gotten them further.


He did play decent though Ina couple at the end of 08 of those member the 10 of 11 game wher Iirc everybody went crazy.
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38-10 Chargers

This game should definitely bring some lulz from the Raiders side.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyHarry wrote:
He did play decent though Ina couple at the end of 08 of those member the 10 of 11 game wher Iirc everybody went crazy.


LOL. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 1985
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope Pryor shows well and is our QB week 1...he provides this team an energy that Flynn doesnt, he makes plays that Flynn can and his upside is intriguing...im not saying he is a Franchise QB but i want him to start this year just so next year we know what we have in him and if he shows enough to be our QBOTF, then we can build around him...
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
DirtyHarry wrote:
He did play decent though Ina couple at the end of 08 of those member the 10 of 11 game wher Iirc everybody went crazy.


LOL. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?


Lets not compare the two, Pryor works his tail off and deserves every opportunity that has come his way...i dont know why its so hard for guys to support this kid...all you hear is how hard the guy works and its easy to see the progress he has made....feel the way you want about the guy but dont disrespect him by comparing him to that lazy bum whos one priority after being drafted was making sure he signed for as much money as possible...
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