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Update: Raiders naming Terrelle Pryor starting QB
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 7859
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey I supported Palmer and still think it was a mistake if they actually wanted to have the best chance at winning this year. I have no issues saying that and I am almost willing to bet Allen wanted to keep him and Reggie didn't.

Now with that said it is a lot easier to stomach if you are going with the young guy to give him a chance to see if he can be anything for your future. But swapping Palmer out for Flynn and saying you are still trying to win games is BS. I said along Flynn wont be the future anyway. If Palmer was here in our new offense I highly doubt there would even be a QB controversy. Imagine what he would do having even more weapons than last season. ala Ford, Butler, Rivieria, Kasa not to mention more chemistry with McFadden, Reese, Streater, Moore, and Criner. He played better here last year than any QB we had in the last decade and in a system and blocking scheme that was completley opposite to his skill set. All with the same lack of talent and healthy playmaker's around him that were afforded to past QB's. Heck were we still moving Centers around into week 4 or 5 if I remember correctly.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 10993
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palmer would still EASILY be the best QB on this team.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14321
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:

you sound absolutely crushed that tp is starting lol. take it easy ole sig buddy who shares my b-day.

i could sware you put cp over the organization. losing didnt matter to you and others as long as cp was the qb. sorry for wanting to win and recognizing that certain qbs arent getting it done. if tp doesnt get it done then ill pound the table for someone to replace him.

you must have me confused. how is me being critical of qbs such as cp and flynn viewed as unsupportive. i just want to win im not going to support losers.

i also love how you and other dudes try to act all innocent now like you never threw shots at tp. Laughing


Sorry NCOUGH.... but WTF are you talking about?

You supported the biggest loser ever (Russel) and still make excuses for him to this day. You talk about wanting to win, but you wanted to start Matt Leinart over Palmer a season ago! And when Russel was sucking it up in the most embarrassing way imaginable I don't recall you "pounding the table for someone to replace him".

You will make excuses for Pryor all day long before you'll want him replaced. Let's just be real here.
check jr and cps win loss records in oak then get back to me.

Sorry cp never impressed me.
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NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 21755
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:

you sound absolutely crushed that tp is starting lol. take it easy ole sig buddy who shares my b-day.

i could sware you put cp over the organization. losing didnt matter to you and others as long as cp was the qb. sorry for wanting to win and recognizing that certain qbs arent getting it done. if tp doesnt get it done then ill pound the table for someone to replace him.

you must have me confused. how is me being critical of qbs such as cp and flynn viewed as unsupportive. i just want to win im not going to support losers.

i also love how you and other dudes try to act all innocent now like you never threw shots at tp. Laughing


Sorry NCOUGH.... but WTF are you talking about?

You supported the biggest loser ever (Russel) and still make excuses for him to this day. You talk about wanting to win, but you wanted to start Matt Leinart over Palmer a season ago! And when Russel was sucking it up in the most embarrassing way imaginable I don't recall you "pounding the table for someone to replace him".

You will make excuses for Pryor all day long before you'll want him replaced. Let's just be real here.
check jr and cps win loss records in oak then get back to me.

Sorry cp never impressed me.


Check the win/loss records of the Raiders since 2002 and get back to me.

I don't care who the QB is. The Raiders poor drafting and FA moves over the last decade have yielded next to nothing talent wise to build around. They've literally had no pass rush since Burgess left. They've been unable to stop the run for about 10 years. There hasn't been a consistent WR since Rice and Brown had their run. The Oline has been below average on it's best years since 2002.

There isn't a QB who could win w/ the supporting casts that have been assembled in Oakland since 2002. Factor in the revolving door of coaching changes and it's an absolute cesspool in Oakland.

Fact is, Palmer did more w/ less than most QBs in Oakland and was the best passer in Oakland since Gannon. No running game, bad OC, poor pass blocking Oline, no go to WR and one of the worst defenses in recent memory. You expected him to win w/ that??

And please spare me the 8-8 seasons and Jason Campbell's w/l record when the division was a joke and McFadden was carrying the team.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 20479
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rather not have a guy who quit on two nfl teams leading this team. Yes im a palmer hater. Dont mind admitting that at all.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 7859
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
I rather not have a guy who quit on two nfl teams leading this team. Yes im a palmer hater. Dont mind admitting that at all.

lol he didnt quit on us. We said we dont want to pay you what we agreed to because our team sucks and we didnt win. lol
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 31809
Location: Rochester, NY
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

God why


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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 7859
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more I think about that sentiment on Palmer the more [inappropriate/removed] it is.

Heck the guy was still standing in the pocket and taking hits try to help us win games when the season was long over and got injured over it. Yet you say he quit on us. BS.

Had we actually used that money to sign impact players maybe I could see it. But no, we used it to get a QB with tendonitis in his arm that may not even be our starter this season and to extend guys like Briesel. Why the hell would he take less money when he could have a career ending injury with the talent around him and poor decisions on scheme for the talent that is there. Ridiculous.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 20479
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
I rather not have a guy who quit on two nfl teams leading this team. Yes im a palmer hater. Dont mind admitting that at all.

lol he didnt quit on us. We said we dont want to pay you what we agreed to because our team sucks and we didnt win. lol


no we said you shouldnt be making elite qb money on a team you cant get more than 5 wins on. Didnt he restructure for the cardinals though. He forced his way out just like with the bengals. Take ball and go home.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 20479
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
The more I think about that sentiment on Palmer the more [inappropriate/removed] it is.

Heck the guy was still standing in the pocket and taking hits try to help us win games when the season was long over and got injured over it. Yet you say he quit on us. BS.

Had we actually used that money to sign impact players maybe I could see it. But no, we used it to get a QB with tendonitis in his arm that may not even be our starter this season and to extend guys like Briesel. Why the hell would he take less money when he could have a career ending injury with the talent around him and poor decisions on scheme for the talent that is there. Ridiculous.



So you think the offseason plays out the same exact way if palmer is still here. I dont believe that. If you do believe that you must not hac3 any faitg that reggie can get the job done.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 7859
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
I rather not have a guy who quit on two nfl teams leading this team. Yes im a palmer hater. Dont mind admitting that at all.

lol he didnt quit on us. We said we dont want to pay you what we agreed to because our team sucks and we didnt win. lol


no we said you shouldnt be making elite qb money on a team you cant get more than 5 wins on. Didnt he restructure for the cardinals though. He forced his way out just like with the bengals. Take ball and go home.

That is your opinion and no way based on facts. I believe he was willing to restructure just not what they were asking. In fact we know that he did listen and was negociating with them. But we have no idea what they offered and the fact that they jumped on Flynn so fast and DA and Reggie said they had talked about Flynn many times implies this was more coming from them than Palmer.

And maybe he shouldnt be making that money but that is what the team agreed to. To imply he was in breach is completley false. He didnt say give me a new contract with more money or I am leaving. He said, "worst case" pay me what we agreed upon already.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 7859
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
The more I think about that sentiment on Palmer the more [inappropriate/removed] it is.

Heck the guy was still standing in the pocket and taking hits try to help us win games when the season was long over and got injured over it. Yet you say he quit on us. BS.

Had we actually used that money to sign impact players maybe I could see it. But no, we used it to get a QB with tendonitis in his arm that may not even be our starter this season and to extend guys like Briesel. Why the hell would he take less money when he could have a career ending injury with the talent around him and poor decisions on scheme for the talent that is there. Ridiculous.



So you think the offseason plays out the same exact way if palmer is still here. I dont believe that. If you do believe that you must not hac3 any faitg that reggie can get the job done.

I saying I am not seeing how it could have played out worse had we kept Palmer.

In fact it would be better because there would be no QB controversy, probably could have waited another year to get a QB and drafted or moved up for a player that could make an impact this year, for example OL or DL. Probably would not have paid Briesel even more money. And like I said before Palmer would be even better in this offense and with the playmakers he did not have last season along with continuity and chemistry.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 20479
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
I rather not have a guy who quit on two nfl teams leading this team. Yes im a palmer hater. Dont mind admitting that at all.

lol he didnt quit on us. We said we dont want to pay you what we agreed to because our team sucks and we didnt win. lol


no we said you shouldnt be making elite qb money on a team you cant get more than 5 wins on. Didnt he restructure for the cardinals though. He forced his way out just like with the bengals. Take ball and go home.

That is your opinion and no way based on facts. I believe he was willing to restructure just not what they were asking. In fact we know that he did listen and was negociating with them. But we have no idea what they offered and the fact that they jumped on Flynn so fast and DA and Reggie said they had talked about Flynn many times implies this was more coming from them than Palmer.

And maybe he shouldnt be making that money but that is what the team agreed to. To imply he was in breach is completley false. He didnt say give me a new contract with more money or I am leaving. He said, "worst case" pay me what we agreed upon already.


Your opinion isn't based on facts either though.

The facts. He retired from bengals cause he wanted out
He restructured contract when bengals trading him to us
We ask him to restructure.
He said no
He got traded to cardinals
He restructured his contract for cardinals for trade to work.

I got with my version of the story over yours based on track record. But you right it's all opinions.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 7859
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
I rather not have a guy who quit on two nfl teams leading this team. Yes im a palmer hater. Dont mind admitting that at all.

lol he didnt quit on us. We said we dont want to pay you what we agreed to because our team sucks and we didnt win. lol


no we said you shouldnt be making elite qb money on a team you cant get more than 5 wins on. Didnt he restructure for the cardinals though. He forced his way out just like with the bengals. Take ball and go home.

That is your opinion and no way based on facts. I believe he was willing to restructure just not what they were asking. In fact we know that he did listen and was negociating with them. But we have no idea what they offered and the fact that they jumped on Flynn so fast and DA and Reggie said they had talked about Flynn many times implies this was more coming from them than Palmer.

And maybe he shouldnt be making that money but that is what the team agreed to. To imply he was in breach is completley false. He didnt say give me a new contract with more money or I am leaving. He said, "worst case" pay me what we agreed upon already.


Your opinion isn't based on facts either though.

The facts. He retired from bengals cause he wanted out
He restructured contract when bengals trading him to us
We ask him to restructure.
He said no
He got traded to cardinals
He restructured his contract for cardinals for trade to work.

I got with my version of the story over yours based on track record. But you right it's all opinions.

I said nothing about what happened with the Bengals.
And he did not say no to a restructure. He said no to what the Raiders offered.

And I will have to look for it but I believe what they offered had no gaurenteed money and Palmers agent advised him against doing that.

Not accepting a bad offer does not equal forcing your way out.

And it is a fact that he played to win when the season was already lost putting his career in jeopardy. While he could have easily taken the Seymour route and dogged it or just stayed on the sidelines.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 20479
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
I rather not have a guy who quit on two nfl teams leading this team. Yes im a palmer hater. Dont mind admitting that at all.

lol he didnt quit on us. We said we dont want to pay you what we agreed to because our team sucks and we didnt win. lol


no we said you shouldnt be making elite qb money on a team you cant get more than 5 wins on. Didnt he restructure for the cardinals though. He forced his way out just like with the bengals. Take ball and go home.

That is your opinion and no way based on facts. I believe he was willing to restructure just not what they were asking. In fact we know that he did listen and was negociating with them. But we have no idea what they offered and the fact that they jumped on Flynn so fast and DA and Reggie said they had talked about Flynn many times implies this was more coming from them than Palmer.

And maybe he shouldnt be making that money but that is what the team agreed to. To imply he was in breach is completley false. He didnt say give me a new contract with more money or I am leaving. He said, "worst case" pay me what we agreed upon already.


Your opinion isn't based on facts either though.

The facts. He retired from bengals cause he wanted out
He restructured contract when bengals trading him to us
We ask him to restructure.
He said no
He got traded to cardinals
He restructured his contract for cardinals for trade to work.

I got with my version of the story over yours based on track record. But you right it's all opinions.

I said nothing about what happened with the Bengals.
And he did not say no to a restructure. He said no to what the Raiders offered.

And I will have to look for it but I believe what they offered had no gaurenteed money and Palmers agent advised him against doing that.

Not accepting a bad offer does not equal forcing your way out.

And it is a fact that he played to win when the season was already lost putting his career in jeopardy. While he could have easily taken the Seymour route and dogged it or just stayed on the sidelines.


We asked Seymour not to come back, so we wouldn't have to pay him. It was a mutual. We going to have to agree to disagree.
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