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Bye bye Flynn
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Tacos


Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Posts: 1165
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
Tacos wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Ultimately we'll just see what happens. Both QBs will be playing at one point so all this is pointless discussion anyway haha.
Yeah, this is more than likely true. However if we start Pryor it buys Flynn some time for JV's return if Pryor doesn't work out. I'm more confident in Flynn with a good OL than Pryor with either at the moment. That's hard to say, though, because Pryor can really move the chains. I don't trust either QB on 3rd and long, but so long as Pryor can run and throw short to intermediate passes he seems more likely to get first downs.

Sigh, I am really missing Chucky and Gannon.
Pryor will convert more 3rd and longs than most Qb's in this league. You guy's don't realize how much his athletic ability actually helps in situations like that, by him either doing it himself cuz he can run or by finding a wide open receiver because of blown coverage cuz of his ability to by time. A lot of times someone will come open when defenses collapse on him.

These highlights show exactly what I mean.............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb9udEjPKT0
Oh, trust me, that's why I like him. I just fear his penchant for doing stupid things like throwing across the body in those situations.

But that game was against Detroit's backups, so it isn't saying much.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 31796
Location: Rochester, NY
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tacos wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Tacos wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Ultimately we'll just see what happens. Both QBs will be playing at one point so all this is pointless discussion anyway haha.
Yeah, this is more than likely true. However if we start Pryor it buys Flynn some time for JV's return if Pryor doesn't work out. I'm more confident in Flynn with a good OL than Pryor with either at the moment. That's hard to say, though, because Pryor can really move the chains. I don't trust either QB on 3rd and long, but so long as Pryor can run and throw short to intermediate passes he seems more likely to get first downs.

Sigh, I am really missing Chucky and Gannon.
Pryor will convert more 3rd and longs than most Qb's in this league. You guy's don't realize how much his athletic ability actually helps in situations like that, by him either doing it himself cuz he can run or by finding a wide open receiver because of blown coverage cuz of his ability to by time. A lot of times someone will come open when defenses collapse on him.

These highlights show exactly what I mean.............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb9udEjPKT0
Oh, trust me, that's why I like him. I just fear his penchant for doing stupid things like throwing across the body in those situations.

But that game was against Detroit's backups, so it isn't saying much.


Yeah, he has a point but I wouldn't be using that as an example. Detroit's backups back then were like a D3 college team kind of bad.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14315
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Tacos wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Tacos wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Ultimately we'll just see what happens. Both QBs will be playing at one point so all this is pointless discussion anyway haha.
Yeah, this is more than likely true. However if we start Pryor it buys Flynn some time for JV's return if Pryor doesn't work out. I'm more confident in Flynn with a good OL than Pryor with either at the moment. That's hard to say, though, because Pryor can really move the chains. I don't trust either QB on 3rd and long, but so long as Pryor can run and throw short to intermediate passes he seems more likely to get first downs.

Sigh, I am really missing Chucky and Gannon.
Pryor will convert more 3rd and longs than most Qb's in this league. You guy's don't realize how much his athletic ability actually helps in situations like that, by him either doing it himself cuz he can run or by finding a wide open receiver because of blown coverage cuz of his ability to by time. A lot of times someone will come open when defenses collapse on him.

These highlights show exactly what I mean.............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb9udEjPKT0
Oh, trust me, that's why I like him. I just fear his penchant for doing stupid things like throwing across the body in those situations.

But that game was against Detroit's backups, so it isn't saying much.


Yeah, he has a point but I wouldn't be using that as an example. Detroit's backups back then were like a D3 college team kind of bad.


i thought det's db's esp alphonso played the whole game. not to mention tp was playing with and against scrubs. he didnt have all the starters around him like cp and ml. fwiw.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 3452
Location: Fresno, California
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Tacos wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Tacos wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Ultimately we'll just see what happens. Both QBs will be playing at one point so all this is pointless discussion anyway haha.
Yeah, this is more than likely true. However if we start Pryor it buys Flynn some time for JV's return if Pryor doesn't work out. I'm more confident in Flynn with a good OL than Pryor with either at the moment. That's hard to say, though, because Pryor can really move the chains. I don't trust either QB on 3rd and long, but so long as Pryor can run and throw short to intermediate passes he seems more likely to get first downs.

Sigh, I am really missing Chucky and Gannon.
Pryor will convert more 3rd and longs than most Qb's in this league. You guy's don't realize how much his athletic ability actually helps in situations like that, by him either doing it himself cuz he can run or by finding a wide open receiver because of blown coverage cuz of his ability to by time. A lot of times someone will come open when defenses collapse on him.

These highlights show exactly what I mean.............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb9udEjPKT0
Oh, trust me, that's why I like him. I just fear his penchant for doing stupid things like throwing across the body in those situations.

But that game was against Detroit's backups, so it isn't saying much.


Yeah, he has a point but I wouldn't be using that as an example. Detroit's backups back then were like a D3 college team kind of bad.
That's kind of my problem the skeptics keep saying everytime he balls out "well it was against backups" ,and when he looked ok against SD it was "well there defense sucks and they had nothing to play for." He wasn't the greatest against SD, but he showed me the little things that I wasn't sure he had, like command of the huddle, pocket presence, awareness, and getting the plays in on time, not to mention he didn't turn the ball over, which a lot of people here call him turnover prone and that's just not the case IMO.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
i thought det's db's esp alphonso played the whole game. not to mention tp was playing with and against scrubs. he didnt have all the starters around him like cp and ml. fwiw.


He was their starter but he had no business being anything more than a nickel or dime CB in the NFL. Criner was balling back then, who he hit on that pass. Either way those were nice plays, even if they were against backups. Need to see him with the 1's to fully get behind him. The bigger reason I'm behind him than anything is how bad Flynn has looked. Good lord. I was so tough on him when we traded for him and I softened up. Shouldn't have.

raidr4life wrote:
That's kind of my problem the skeptics keep saying everytime he balls out "well it was against backups" ,and when he looked ok against SD it was "well there defense sucks and they had nothing to play for." He wasn't the greatest against SD, but he showed me the little things that I wasn't sure he had, like command of the huddle, pocket presence, awareness, and getting the plays in on time, not to mention he didn't turn the ball over, which a lot of people here call him turnover prone and that's just not the case IMO.


He's basically the same as he was vs SD except his throwing motion and overall zip on his passes have improved a bit. He still needs to cut out the stupid decisions. I will say they've become less frequent though. Plus, every QB makes a bad choice from time to time. I would say he is turnover prone. Doesn't mean he can't change that in the future.
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swi7ch


Joined: 04 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two words: Career Backup

His legacy was cemented when he lost the job in SEA last year to a rookie QB.

Take your seat, Matt... like you always have!
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G


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was missing Palmer watching Flynn play in that game...
Pryor has shown improvement and has earned the chance to start and be favored at this time. A few balls worry me that he'll get the WR's killed but with our line I'd rather see what the guy brings to the table week in and week out...
Flynn can perform coming off a bench but we don't know what Pryor can do if given and entire season as a starter. Might as well find out.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 21731
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hard part here is if they decide to start Flynn, it's going to get really ugly at O.co.

This Pryor situation is bordering on Tebow levels of nonsense circa the Kyle Orton era. The fans are not concerned w/ the ability to be a consistent passer, etc. they just want to see some sandlot football which is what Pryor offers.

I have my doubts you can stick Pryor into the base offense for 60 minutes and he can distribute the ball around and make plays. IMO, you are going to get the occasional big play coupled w/ a lot of three and outs between the 20's.

Defenses will eventually limited his ability to run and force him to be a passer. That is when the test of how good he can be as a starter begins.
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BlackPrestige92


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're talking Terrelle Pryor on First Take.

It's real.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 20469
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
The hard part here is if they decide to start Flynn, it's going to get really ugly at O.co.

This Pryor situation is bordering on Tebow levels of nonsense circa the Kyle Orton era. The fans are not concerned w/ the ability to be a consistent passer, etc. they just want to see some sandlot football which is what Pryor offers.

I have my doubts you can stick Pryor into the base offense for 60 minutes and he can distribute the ball around and make plays. IMO, you are going to get the occasional big play coupled w/ a lot of three and outs between the 20's.

Defenses will eventually limited his ability to run and force him to be a passer. That is when the test of how good he can be as a starter begins.


Fans are fans, if Flynn performs and wins nobody will complain. Now when he sucks its going to get extremely ugly. Like I wouldn't want to be no where there ugly.
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
The hard part here is if they decide to start Flynn, it's going to get really ugly at O.co.

This Pryor situation is bordering on Tebow levels of nonsense circa the Kyle Orton era. The fans are not concerned w/ the ability to be a consistent passer, etc. they just want to see some sandlot football which is what Pryor offers.

I have my doubts you can stick Pryor into the base offense for 60 minutes and he can distribute the ball around and make plays. IMO, you are going to get the occasional big play coupled w/ a lot of three and outs between the 20's.

Defenses will eventually limited his ability to run and force him to be a passer. That is when the test of how good he can be as a starter begins.


Flynn more then likely won't be with the Raiders next year so they might as well see what Pryor offers.
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Chali21


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
The hard part here is if they decide to start Flynn, it's going to get really ugly at O.co.

This Pryor situation is bordering on Tebow levels of nonsense circa the Kyle Orton era. The fans are not concerned w/ the ability to be a consistent passer, etc. they just want to see some sandlot football which is what Pryor offers.

I have my doubts you can stick Pryor into the base offense for 60 minutes and he can distribute the ball around and make plays. IMO, you are going to get the occasional big play coupled w/ a lot of three and outs between the 20's.

Defenses will eventually limited his ability to run and force him to be a passer. That is when the test of how good he can be as a starter begins.


Wasn't that what our offense was like last year?

Also it's been like this every year since Gannon left.

When Collins was starting people wanted to see Tui
When it was Brooks people wanted to see Walter
When it was McCown it was Culpepper/Russell
When it was Russell it was anyone else
When it was Cambell it was Gradcowski
And when it was Palmer it was Pryor

The only thing that will change this is if the raiders get a franchise guy like: Brees Rodgers Brady Manning Wilson RG3 Ryan Luck or Kapernick.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
The hard part here is if they decide to start Flynn, it's going to get really ugly at O.co.

This Pryor situation is bordering on Tebow levels of nonsense circa the Kyle Orton era. The fans are not concerned w/ the ability to be a consistent passer, etc. they just want to see some sandlot football which is what Pryor offers.


I have my doubts you can stick Pryor into the base offense for 60 minutes and he can distribute the ball around and make plays. IMO, you are going to get the occasional big play coupled w/ a lot of three and outs between the 20's.

Defenses will eventually limited his ability to run and force him to be a passer. That is when the test of how good he can be as a starter begins.

I think our screen and run game will benefit so there shouldn't be as many 3 and outs as you would think. Not the amount I would want but I feel that in the end we would have more points on the board and more time off the clock with Pryor in, but that is just my opinion at this current time.

As far as the bold goes while it is for the most part true Flynn really has played his part in that as well. I don't remember people doing that to Palmer. Why because "everyone" knows he is a better QB than both of these guys. There is not really much anyone at this point(8.27.13) can say to prove that Matt Flynn gives us any better chance to win than Pryor. Whether that is true or not. And yes the same can be said the other way around except Pryor hasn't been given that chance yet that Flynn has been given twice now. That's my 2 cents on that.

Also have to say on that subject I was proud that Pryor basically called out the Raider Nation and said the booing was ridiculous.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
The hard part here is if they decide to start Flynn, it's going to get really ugly at O.co.

This Pryor situation is bordering on Tebow levels of nonsense circa the Kyle Orton era. The fans are not concerned w/ the ability to be a consistent passer, etc. they just want to see some sandlot football which is what Pryor offers.

I have my doubts you can stick Pryor into the base offense for 60 minutes and he can distribute the ball around and make plays. IMO, you are going to get the occasional big play coupled w/ a lot of three and outs between the 20's.

Defenses will eventually limited his ability to run and force him to be a passer. That is when the test of how good he can be as a starter begins.


Wasn't that what our offense was like last year?

Also it's been like this every year since Gannon left.

When Collins was starting people wanted to see Tui
When it was Brooks people wanted to see Walter
When it was McCown it was Culpepper/Russell
When it was Russell it was anyone else
When it was Cambell it was Gradcowski
And when it was Palmer it was Pryor

The only thing that will change this is if the raiders get a franchise guy like: Brees Rodgers Brady Manning Wilson RG3 Ryan Luck or Kapernick.


Don't blame me..... I pimped him all offseason and wanted to draft him in the worst way.

However, as much as I love Kaepernick I imagine he'd be having a very different start to his career in Oakland. This is not a place for a young QB. No Oline, poor WRs, no TE. Really need to build this up before thinking about drafting a QB in the future.
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
The hard part here is if they decide to start Flynn, it's going to get really ugly at O.co.

This Pryor situation is bordering on Tebow levels of nonsense circa the Kyle Orton era. The fans are not concerned w/ the ability to be a consistent passer, etc. they just want to see some sandlot football which is what Pryor offers.

I have my doubts you can stick Pryor into the base offense for 60 minutes and he can distribute the ball around and make plays. IMO, you are going to get the occasional big play coupled w/ a lot of three and outs between the 20's.

Defenses will eventually limited his ability to run and force him to be a passer. That is when the test of how good he can be as a starter begins.


Wasn't that what our offense was like last year?

Also it's been like this every year since Gannon left.

When Collins was starting people wanted to see Tui
When it was Brooks people wanted to see Walter
When it was McCown it was Culpepper/Russell
When it was Russell it was anyone else
When it was Cambell it was Gradcowski
And when it was Palmer it was Pryor

The only thing that will change this is if the raiders get a franchise guy like: Brees Rodgers Brady Manning Wilson RG3 Ryan Luck or Kapernick.


Don't blame me..... I pimped him all offseason and wanted to draft him in the worst way.

However, as much as I love Kaepernick I imagine he'd be having a very different start to his career in Oakland. This is not a place for a young QB. No Oline, poor WRs, no TE. Really need to build this up before thinking about drafting a QB in the future.


+1

Kaepernick would be ruined right about now. People think the Raiders can develop Bridgewater while he runs for his life. Bridgewater in Oakland would be more David Carr than Russell Wilson. If the Raiders have a draft with a HEAVY emphasis on improving the trenches as well hit on a few key FA OL the Raiders could be ready as soon as 2014.
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