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What is our biggest area of weakness?
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What aspect is the worst?
Pass Protection (Oline/TE)
50%
 50%  [ 17 ]
Passing (QB/WR/TE)
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
Run Blocking (Oline/TE)
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
Rushing (RB/FB)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Pass Rush (Dline/LBers)
17%
 17%  [ 6 ]
Run Defence (Dline/LBers)
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
Pass defence (CBs/S's/LB's)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Other
14%
 14%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 34

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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5460
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Raiders remind me of the scene in "Training Day" where they are discussing whose going to take the hit for the mess someone else created. This is the Day of Reckoning that we all knew was eventually coming if the Raiders were ever going to be a modern organization. Yet even in knowing this someone must be held accountable for holding the bag when the music stops.

Imo, the Ted Thompson model will not work for this team. Had Ted Thompson not lucked into Aaron Rogers I am confident that he'd be out of work by now. GB has had some notable FA signings but they few and far between compared to the Ravens, a model organization, who also builds through the draft but also supplements well through FA.

In retrospect Allen is an excellent coach who won't be out of work long enough for his coffee to go cold but he may be more Norv Turner than Jeff Fisher and McKenzie, who has proven he has a strong command of the salary cap and how to manage a small market team, is more Director of Player Personnel than GM. I say this knowing how much I like McKenzie's transparent Saber-Metric approach and his proficiency in the back end of the draft. However, regardless of whether it's fair McKenzie has to hit on his early draft picks.

Allen is as good as gone as he doesn't have the bullets for an extended gunfight. It will be expensive but if McKenzie is gone then somehow Mark Davis must pry DeCosta away from the Ravens.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll agree to an extent Bagga.

I think having a franchise QB makes all the difference. It makes a GM and coaches life easier knowing the most important position on the field is covered.

I'm interested to see what happens this offseason when McKenzie finally has money at his disposal something he's yet to have.

How will he approach FA next offseason knowing he has a talent deficient roster and a dire need for star or impact players.

When in GB they always had the luxury of a franchise QB and built around him on the cheap in most cases. Made good selections in the draft, etc. But how will he treat things when there is not that presence at QB?

I think 2014 will be the telling offseason. We will start to see glimpses of the current draft class. And should start to see how aggressive McKenzie wants to be when he has money to spend.
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DirtyHarry


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 1721
Location: Foster City,CA
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reggiesucks wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Reggiesucks wrote:
No need in making this argruement again. These guys are still drinking the Kool Aid! LOL Our Biggest weakness is GM and HeadCoach!


Riiiight. B/c Lombardi would be able to make our offensive line a good unit.


I don't know if Lombardi could make the line better but I'm sure a servicable GM could have upgraded the talent over 2 years.

How ? With all dead money they were paying. Next year we will have a top 5 pick maybe 1st or 2nd overall and pretty much all the dead money will be off the books. I just hope Reggie does sign a big time impact player.
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38-10 Chargers

This game should definitely bring some lulz from the Raiders side.
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DirtyHarry


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 1721
Location: Foster City,CA
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
I'll agree to an extent Bagga.

I think having a franchise QB makes all the difference. It makes a GM and coaches life easier knowing the most important position on the field is covered.

I'm interested to see what happens this offseason when McKenzie finally has money at his disposal something he's yet to have.

How will he approach FA next offseason knowing he has a talent deficient roster and a dire need for star or impact players.

When in GB they always had the luxury of a franchise QB and built around him on the cheap in most cases. Made good selections in the draft, etc. But how will he treat things when there is not that presence at QB?

I think 2014 will be the telling offseason. We will start to see glimpses of the current draft class. And should start to see how aggressive McKenzie wants to be when he has money to spend.


For me Micheal Oher and Micheal Johnson leap out at me. I think they upgrade our biggest weaknesses Ina major way
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JonesDrew32 wrote:
38-10 Chargers

This game should definitely bring some lulz from the Raiders side.
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 4393
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
The Raiders remind me of the scene in "Training Day" where they are discussing whose going to take the hit for the mess someone else created. This is the Day of Reckoning that we all knew was eventually coming if the Raiders were ever going to be a modern organization. Yet even in knowing this someone must be held accountable for holding the bag when the music stops.

Imo, the Ted Thompson model will not work for this team. Had Ted Thompson not lucked into Aaron Rogers I am confident that he'd be out of work by now. GB has had some notable FA signings but they few and far between compared to the Ravens, a model organization, who also builds through the draft but also supplements well through FA.

In retrospect Allen is an excellent coach who won't be out of work long enough for his coffee to go cold but he may be more Norv Turner than Jeff Fisher and McKenzie, who has proven he has a strong command of the salary cap and how to manage a small market team, is more Director of Player Personnel than GM. I say this knowing how much I like McKenzie's transparent Saber-Metric approach and his proficiency in the back end of the draft. However, regardless of whether it's fair McKenzie has to hit on his early draft picks.

Allen is as good as gone as he doesn't have the bullets for an extended gunfight. It will be expensive but if McKenzie is gone then somehow Mark Davis must pry DeCosta away from the Ravens.


I suppose the Patriots lucked into Brady,the 49ers Montana, etc etc such lame reasoning.They could have easily passed on Rodgers, they had Favre and a lot of people were predicting Rodgers would come to nothing. The fact is they took him, let him sit and learn for a couple of years until he was ready, that's not luck.

Thompson assembled his Super Bowl winning team mainly through the draft (despite what bitty says) built up the depth on the roster which they needed with the injuries they suffered and by good coaching. The difference being that the Packers believed in the process despite their '05 season being their worst for 15 years, stuck with the rebuild and were rewarded 5 years later. The Raiders need to show the same patience.
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bitty wrote:
I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked.
#clueless
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21094
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
The Raiders remind me of the scene in "Training Day" where they are discussing whose going to take the hit for the mess someone else created. This is the Day of Reckoning that we all knew was eventually coming if the Raiders were ever going to be a modern organization. Yet even in knowing this someone must be held accountable for holding the bag when the music stops.

Imo, the Ted Thompson model will not work for this team. Had Ted Thompson not lucked into Aaron Rogers I am confident that he'd be out of work by now. GB has had some notable FA signings but they few and far between compared to the Ravens, a model organization, who also builds through the draft but also supplements well through FA.

In retrospect Allen is an excellent coach who won't be out of work long enough for his coffee to go cold but he may be more Norv Turner than Jeff Fisher and McKenzie, who has proven he has a strong command of the salary cap and how to manage a small market team, is more Director of Player Personnel than GM. I say this knowing how much I like McKenzie's transparent Saber-Metric approach and his proficiency in the back end of the draft. However, regardless of whether it's fair McKenzie has to hit on his early draft picks.

Allen is as good as gone as he doesn't have the bullets for an extended gunfight. It will be expensive but if McKenzie is gone then somehow Mark Davis must pry DeCosta away from the Ravens.


I suppose the Patriots lucked into Brady,the 49ers Montana, etc etc such lame reasoning.They could have easily passed on Rodgers, they had Favre and a lot of people were predicting Rodgers would come to nothing. The fact is they took him, let him sit and learn for a couple of years until he was ready, that's not luck.

Thompson assembled his Super Bowl winning team mainly through the draft (despite what bitty says) built up the depth on the roster which they needed with the injuries they suffered and by good coaching. The difference being that the Packers believed in the process despite their '05 season being their worst for 15 years, stuck with the rebuild and were rewarded 5 years later. The Raiders need to show the same patience.


I don't know man packers roster is not overly impressive to me. He has an elite qb and elite coach that's what I give tt credit for. He has some good players don't give me wrong. But Rodgers and McCarthy system is what makes that thing work so well.
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 9877
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Reggiesucks wrote:
No need in making this argruement again. These guys are still drinking the Kool Aid! LOL Our Biggest weakness is GM and HeadCoach!


Riiiight. B/c Lombardi would be able to make our offensive line a good unit.


lol that guy clearly has no agenda....
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 4393
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
Dessie wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
The Raiders remind me of the scene in "Training Day" where they are discussing whose going to take the hit for the mess someone else created. This is the Day of Reckoning that we all knew was eventually coming if the Raiders were ever going to be a modern organization. Yet even in knowing this someone must be held accountable for holding the bag when the music stops.

Imo, the Ted Thompson model will not work for this team. Had Ted Thompson not lucked into Aaron Rogers I am confident that he'd be out of work by now. GB has had some notable FA signings but they few and far between compared to the Ravens, a model organization, who also builds through the draft but also supplements well through FA.

In retrospect Allen is an excellent coach who won't be out of work long enough for his coffee to go cold but he may be more Norv Turner than Jeff Fisher and McKenzie, who has proven he has a strong command of the salary cap and how to manage a small market team, is more Director of Player Personnel than GM. I say this knowing how much I like McKenzie's transparent Saber-Metric approach and his proficiency in the back end of the draft. However, regardless of whether it's fair McKenzie has to hit on his early draft picks.

Allen is as good as gone as he doesn't have the bullets for an extended gunfight. It will be expensive but if McKenzie is gone then somehow Mark Davis must pry DeCosta away from the Ravens.


I suppose the Patriots lucked into Brady,the 49ers Montana, etc etc such lame reasoning.They could have easily passed on Rodgers, they had Favre and a lot of people were predicting Rodgers would come to nothing. The fact is they took him, let him sit and learn for a couple of years until he was ready, that's not luck.

Thompson assembled his Super Bowl winning team mainly through the draft (despite what bitty says) built up the depth on the roster which they needed with the injuries they suffered and by good coaching. The difference being that the Packers believed in the process despite their '05 season being their worst for 15 years, stuck with the rebuild and were rewarded 5 years later. The Raiders need to show the same patience.


I don't know man packers roster is not overly impressive to me. He has an elite qb and elite coach that's what I give tt credit for. He has some good players don't give me wrong. But Rodgers and McCarthy system is what makes that thing work so well.


Complaining about a Super Bowl winning roster? Rolling Eyes
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bitty wrote:
I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked.
#clueless
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 9877
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just feel like there's a whole lot of impatience and jumping to conclusions more than I've ever seen. I mean, pre season isn't even over yet.

As far as the talent thing goes, we don't really even know yet. With so many young, un proven players, you never know who's going to break out, have a big year, or maybe even become a star. For example, our young, unproven WR corps could become one of the better ones in the league heading into next season (or the opposite) you just don't know. That's why I like to be patient. I know there's not a lot of room for people to be positive given the past decade, but it's a new regime that HAS to be given time.

With the situation that Reggie took over, there's absolutely ZERO reasons to fire him after two seasons.
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
Dessie wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
The Raiders remind me of the scene in "Training Day" where they are discussing whose going to take the hit for the mess someone else created. This is the Day of Reckoning that we all knew was eventually coming if the Raiders were ever going to be a modern organization. Yet even in knowing this someone must be held accountable for holding the bag when the music stops.

Imo, the Ted Thompson model will not work for this team. Had Ted Thompson not lucked into Aaron Rogers I am confident that he'd be out of work by now. GB has had some notable FA signings but they few and far between compared to the Ravens, a model organization, who also builds through the draft but also supplements well through FA.

In retrospect Allen is an excellent coach who won't be out of work long enough for his coffee to go cold but he may be more Norv Turner than Jeff Fisher and McKenzie, who has proven he has a strong command of the salary cap and how to manage a small market team, is more Director of Player Personnel than GM. I say this knowing how much I like McKenzie's transparent Saber-Metric approach and his proficiency in the back end of the draft. However, regardless of whether it's fair McKenzie has to hit on his early draft picks.

Allen is as good as gone as he doesn't have the bullets for an extended gunfight. It will be expensive but if McKenzie is gone then somehow Mark Davis must pry DeCosta away from the Ravens.


I suppose the Patriots lucked into Brady,the 49ers Montana, etc etc such lame reasoning.They could have easily passed on Rodgers, they had Favre and a lot of people were predicting Rodgers would come to nothing. The fact is they took him, let him sit and learn for a couple of years until he was ready, that's not luck.

Thompson assembled his Super Bowl winning team mainly through the draft (despite what bitty says) built up the depth on the roster which they needed with the injuries they suffered and by good coaching. The difference being that the Packers believed in the process despite their '05 season being their worst for 15 years, stuck with the rebuild and were rewarded 5 years later. The Raiders need to show the same patience.


I don't know man packers roster is not overly impressive to me. He has an elite qb and elite coach that's what I give tt credit for. He has some good players don't give me wrong. But Rodgers and McCarthy system is what makes that thing work so well.


To be fair, that team won a SB with 16 guys on IR. That some serious depth....
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3622
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Dessie wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
The Raiders remind me of the scene in "Training Day" where they are discussing whose going to take the hit for the mess someone else created. This is the Day of Reckoning that we all knew was eventually coming if the Raiders were ever going to be a modern organization. Yet even in knowing this someone must be held accountable for holding the bag when the music stops.

Imo, the Ted Thompson model will not work for this team. Had Ted Thompson not lucked into Aaron Rogers I am confident that he'd be out of work by now. GB has had some notable FA signings but they few and far between compared to the Ravens, a model organization, who also builds through the draft but also supplements well through FA.

In retrospect Allen is an excellent coach who won't be out of work long enough for his coffee to go cold but he may be more Norv Turner than Jeff Fisher and McKenzie, who has proven he has a strong command of the salary cap and how to manage a small market team, is more Director of Player Personnel than GM. I say this knowing how much I like McKenzie's transparent Saber-Metric approach and his proficiency in the back end of the draft. However, regardless of whether it's fair McKenzie has to hit on his early draft picks.

Allen is as good as gone as he doesn't have the bullets for an extended gunfight. It will be expensive but if McKenzie is gone then somehow Mark Davis must pry DeCosta away from the Ravens.


I suppose the Patriots lucked into Brady,the 49ers Montana, etc etc such lame reasoning.They could have easily passed on Rodgers, they had Favre and a lot of people were predicting Rodgers would come to nothing. The fact is they took him, let him sit and learn for a couple of years until he was ready, that's not luck.

Thompson assembled his Super Bowl winning team mainly through the draft (despite what bitty says) built up the depth on the roster which they needed with the injuries they suffered and by good coaching. The difference being that the Packers believed in the process despite their '05 season being their worst for 15 years, stuck with the rebuild and were rewarded 5 years later. The Raiders need to show the same patience.


I don't know man packers roster is not overly impressive to me. He has an elite qb and elite coach that's what I give tt credit for. He has some good players don't give me wrong. But Rodgers and McCarthy system is what makes that thing work so well.


Complaining about a Super Bowl winning roster? Rolling Eyes




One thing i give Green Bay credit for is that they draft QBs all the time. It's the most important position on the field why not draft one every couple years. Even if you have a HOF on the roster already. You could always trade them.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5460
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
Dessie wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
The Raiders remind me of the scene in "Training Day" where they are discussing whose going to take the hit for the mess someone else created. This is the Day of Reckoning that we all knew was eventually coming if the Raiders were ever going to be a modern organization. Yet even in knowing this someone must be held accountable for holding the bag when the music stops.

Imo, the Ted Thompson model will not work for this team. Had Ted Thompson not lucked into Aaron Rogers I am confident that he'd be out of work by now. GB has had some notable FA signings but they few and far between compared to the Ravens, a model organization, who also builds through the draft but also supplements well through FA.

In retrospect Allen is an excellent coach who won't be out of work long enough for his coffee to go cold but he may be more Norv Turner than Jeff Fisher and McKenzie, who has proven he has a strong command of the salary cap and how to manage a small market team, is more Director of Player Personnel than GM. I say this knowing how much I like McKenzie's transparent Saber-Metric approach and his proficiency in the back end of the draft. However, regardless of whether it's fair McKenzie has to hit on his early draft picks.

Allen is as good as gone as he doesn't have the bullets for an extended gunfight. It will be expensive but if McKenzie is gone then somehow Mark Davis must pry DeCosta away from the Ravens.


I suppose the Patriots lucked into Brady,the 49ers Montana, etc etc such lame reasoning.They could have easily passed on Rodgers, they had Favre and a lot of people were predicting Rodgers would come to nothing. The fact is they took him, let him sit and learn for a couple of years until he was ready, that's not luck.

Thompson assembled his Super Bowl winning team mainly through the draft (despite what bitty says) built up the depth on the roster which they needed with the injuries they suffered and by good coaching. The difference being that the Packers believed in the process despite their '05 season being their worst for 15 years, stuck with the rebuild and were rewarded 5 years later. The Raiders need to show the same patience.


I don't know man packers roster is not overly impressive to me. He has an elite qb and elite coach that's what I give tt credit for. He has some good players don't give me wrong. But Rodgers and McCarthy system is what makes that thing work so well.


+1
Belichick was idiot in Cleveland but now he's a genius. The facts are most of the coaches in the NFL are very very smart but can't get the right players in place. I can't speak for Bill Walsh or Jim Harbaugh because they specifically targeted their guy, iirc. The Pats and GB kinda stuck to their board. If Rodgers didn't pan out when he could kept Farve and used that pick elsewhere he would be looking for a job. TT was already on the hot seat and at one time the fanbase loathed him.

As a TT disciple I said on the day McKenzie got hired that he would definitely be on the hottest seat before he either turned it around or got fired using the TT model. I'm not going so far as to agree with bitty but I don't like GB's roster (or the way they do things) all that much outside of Rodgers. However, the TT model is excellent for small market team salary cap management.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22108
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Dessie wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
The Raiders remind me of the scene in "Training Day" where they are discussing whose going to take the hit for the mess someone else created. This is the Day of Reckoning that we all knew was eventually coming if the Raiders were ever going to be a modern organization. Yet even in knowing this someone must be held accountable for holding the bag when the music stops.

Imo, the Ted Thompson model will not work for this team. Had Ted Thompson not lucked into Aaron Rogers I am confident that he'd be out of work by now. GB has had some notable FA signings but they few and far between compared to the Ravens, a model organization, who also builds through the draft but also supplements well through FA.

In retrospect Allen is an excellent coach who won't be out of work long enough for his coffee to go cold but he may be more Norv Turner than Jeff Fisher and McKenzie, who has proven he has a strong command of the salary cap and how to manage a small market team, is more Director of Player Personnel than GM. I say this knowing how much I like McKenzie's transparent Saber-Metric approach and his proficiency in the back end of the draft. However, regardless of whether it's fair McKenzie has to hit on his early draft picks.

Allen is as good as gone as he doesn't have the bullets for an extended gunfight. It will be expensive but if McKenzie is gone then somehow Mark Davis must pry DeCosta away from the Ravens.


I suppose the Patriots lucked into Brady,the 49ers Montana, etc etc such lame reasoning.They could have easily passed on Rodgers, they had Favre and a lot of people were predicting Rodgers would come to nothing. The fact is they took him, let him sit and learn for a couple of years until he was ready, that's not luck.

Thompson assembled his Super Bowl winning team mainly through the draft (despite what bitty says) built up the depth on the roster which they needed with the injuries they suffered and by good coaching. The difference being that the Packers believed in the process despite their '05 season being their worst for 15 years, stuck with the rebuild and were rewarded 5 years later. The Raiders need to show the same patience.


I don't know man packers roster is not overly impressive to me. He has an elite qb and elite coach that's what I give tt credit for. He has some good players don't give me wrong. But Rodgers and McCarthy system is what makes that thing work so well.


+1
Belichick was idiot in Cleveland but now he's a genius. The facts are most of the coaches in the NFL are very very smart but can't get the right players in place. I can't speak for Bill Walsh or Jim Harbaugh because they specifically targeted their guy, iirc. The Pats and GB kinda stuck to their board. If Rodgers didn't pan out when he could kept Farve and used that pick elsewhere he would be looking for a job. TT was already on the hot seat and at one time the fanbase loathed him.

As a TT disciple I said on the day McKenzie got hired that he would definitely be on the hottest seat before he either turned it around or got fired using the TT model. I'm not going so far as to agree with bitty but I don't like GB's roster (or the way they do things) all that much outside of Rodgers. However, the TT model is excellent for small market team salary cap management.


I've been agreeing w/ everything you say lately and this is no exception.

I always advocate coaches being as good as the talent that surrounds them. A franchise QB can really make a coaches job easier. Which is why I find it funny when fans are ready to bury a coach like Allen early when he hasn't had the time to acquire the talent needed to be successful.

I'm also an advocate of the Ravens model for building a roster. Everyone looks at who they lost this offseason and thinks they are going to fall off. But when you look at the bargain FA pieces they added and the way they worked the draft, you can see they fill voids and upgrade where needed. They've managed to keep a high level of talent for a decade and compete year in and out. Which is very impressive considering the ho hum QBs they've had over the years.
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Reggiesucks


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: What is our biggest area of weakness? Reply with quote

I know you guys love RM and DA but the best thing these 2 guys can do for the Raiders is continue to stink up the field and not screw it up by going 4-12, 5-11. This team is clearly a disaster so the best thing for us is to get in the Clowney, Bridgewater sweepstakes. We need to be firmly cemented in that 1 or 2 spot.
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RaidersAreOne


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:11 am    Post subject: Re: What is our biggest area of weakness? Reply with quote

Reggiesucks wrote:
I know you guys love RM and DA but the best thing these 2 guys can do for the Raiders is continue to stink up the field and not screw it up by going 4-12, 5-11. This team is clearly a disaster so the best thing for us is to get in the Clowney, Bridgewater sweepstakes. We need to be firmly cemented in that 1 or 2 spot.


Sweet username.
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