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Preseason top 7 Vikings draft prospects - vote for #2 today
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Vikings #2 Draft Target
Yawin Smallwood, ILB, UConn
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
CJ Mosley, OLB, Alabama
35%
 35%  [ 6 ]
Christian Jones, OLB, Florida State
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Aaron Lynch, DE, USF
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Kareem Martin, DE, UNC
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Trent Murphy, DE, Stanford
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Cyril Richardson, G, Baylor
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Gabe Jackson, G, Mississippi State
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Daniel McCullers, NT, Tennessee
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Jeff Mathews, QB, Cornell
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Tajh Boyd, QB, Clemson
17%
 17%  [ 3 ]
David Fales, QB, San Jose State
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
AJ Johnson, ILB, Tennessee
23%
 23%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 17

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jshowers


Joined: 03 May 2013
Posts: 12529
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Preseason top 7 Vikings draft prospects - vote for #2 today Reply with quote

With exactly one week to go until college football begins, I think it would be fun to do a daily poll deciding on our top 7 draft targets heading into next season. These are the guys that will be a priority for us in the draft. Voting for the #1, then #2, then #3 (etc) prospect will remain open all day until next Thursday when we will have our top 7 players to watch during the season that we would like to see in purple next season.

I have created an initial list of guys to choose from, but if you would like to add someone, feel free to reply with a name, position, and school, and I will add them to the poll.

Assume when you are voting that Christian Ponder showed slight improvement this year, statistically and on game film. He seemed more comfortable and showed poise as a leader, won most of the games he was supposed to lead us to victory in, but still looked overmatched against the league's better defenses and displayed the same limitations in his ability to hit on deep throws.

Also, note that I have not included Jadeveon Clowney or Teddy Bridgewater as right now they will almost certainly go to the teams picking 1st and 2nd overall and I don't see the Vikings picking that high or shelling out enough via trade to move up to either of those spots.

We have selected Louis Nix III, DT from Notre Dame as our primary draft target (Ponder appreciates our faith in him Wink ). Who is #2???

RESULTS

1. Louis Nix III, DT, Notre Dame
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Boda


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Went with CJ Mosley here.
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Boda


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curious as to who went with DE - Lynch and didn't simply write in Stephon Tuitt if they wanted us to go DE or was that person simply assuming he'd be gone by our pick?

Actually I'm curious as to why Tuitt isn't on the list at all when there's three DE's on the list.
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jshowers


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boda wrote:
Curious as to who went with DE - Lynch and didn't simply write in Stephon Tuitt if they wanted us to go DE or was that person simply assuming he'd be gone by our pick?

Actually I'm curious as to why Tuitt isn't on the list at all when there's three DE's on the list.


Tuitt is too big to play 4-3 DE in our scheme. He's a perfect fit a the 5-Tech for a 3-4 team or otherwise would have to play inside in a 4-3.
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Boda


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jshowers wrote:
Boda wrote:
Curious as to who went with DE - Lynch and didn't simply write in Stephon Tuitt if they wanted us to go DE or was that person simply assuming he'd be gone by our pick?

Actually I'm curious as to why Tuitt isn't on the list at all when there's three DE's on the list.


Tuitt is too big to play 4-3 DE in our scheme. He's a perfect fit a the 5-Tech for a 3-4 team or otherwise would have to play inside in a 4-3.

I strongly disagree. I believe Tuitt would be a beast in our scheme & strongly believe he should be an option before a
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Boda


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jshowers wrote:
Boda wrote:
Curious as to who went with DE - Lynch and didn't simply write in Stephon Tuitt if they wanted us to go DE or was that person simply assuming he'd be gone by our pick?

Actually I'm curious as to why Tuitt isn't on the list at all when there's three DE's on the list.


Tuitt is too big to play 4-3 DE in our scheme. He's a perfect fit a the 5-Tech for a 3-4 team or otherwise would have to play inside in a 4-3.

I strongly disagree. I believe Tuitt would be a beast in our scheme & strongly believe he should be an option before all 3 of the DE's currently on it.
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jshowers


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boda wrote:
jshowers wrote:
Boda wrote:
Curious as to who went with DE - Lynch and didn't simply write in Stephon Tuitt if they wanted us to go DE or was that person simply assuming he'd be gone by our pick?

Actually I'm curious as to why Tuitt isn't on the list at all when there's three DE's on the list.


Tuitt is too big to play 4-3 DE in our scheme. He's a perfect fit a the 5-Tech for a 3-4 team or otherwise would have to play inside in a 4-3.

I strongly disagree. I believe Tuitt would be a beast in our scheme & strongly believe he should be an option before all 3 of the DE's currently on it.


Aight bruh. If you want to think that a 320+ pound DE would handle the responsibilities required of the position in our scheme, you go right ahead.

What's your support for your "strong disagreement" and "strong belief" besides the word strong?
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Boda


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jshowers wrote:
Boda wrote:
jshowers wrote:
Boda wrote:
Curious as to who went with DE - Lynch and didn't simply write in Stephon Tuitt if they wanted us to go DE or was that person simply assuming he'd be gone by our pick?

Actually I'm curious as to why Tuitt isn't on the list at all when there's three DE's on the list.


Tuitt is too big to play 4-3 DE in our scheme. He's a perfect fit a the 5-Tech for a 3-4 team or otherwise would have to play inside in a 4-3.

I strongly disagree. I believe Tuitt would be a beast in our scheme & strongly believe he should be an option before all 3 of the DE's currently on it.


Aight bruh. If you want to think that a 320+ pound DE would handle the responsibilities required of the position in our scheme, you go right ahead.

What's your support for your "strong disagreement" and "strong belief" besides the word strong?

Cool Story Bro!


Anyways I didn't know that weight played a part in whether or not a player could play DE. I guess you disqualify QB's who aren't 6'1" or taller to right?

Now if you want to disagree with me go ahead, I simply stated my opinion and let you know I strongly disagree with you. Tuitt can use his size to his advantage and he knows how to play in the backfield and has no issue getting after the QB which shouldn't have to be discussed based on ranking 7th in the FBS in sack yardage, 13th in Sacks & 14th in sacks per game. He did all this as a sophmore and should only get better with another season under his belt.

Now sure he might have a bad season but I don't think anything he's done so far proves or rather shows he can't play DE in a 4-3 scheme. If anything I think putting him in a 3-4 would be a waste of his talent.

The better question is what makes you think he couldn't play DE in our scheme besides the fact that you don't believe so.
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jshowers


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Posts: 12529
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boda wrote:
jshowers wrote:
Boda wrote:
jshowers wrote:
Boda wrote:
Curious as to who went with DE - Lynch and didn't simply write in Stephon Tuitt if they wanted us to go DE or was that person simply assuming he'd be gone by our pick?

Actually I'm curious as to why Tuitt isn't on the list at all when there's three DE's on the list.


Tuitt is too big to play 4-3 DE in our scheme. He's a perfect fit a the 5-Tech for a 3-4 team or otherwise would have to play inside in a 4-3.

I strongly disagree. I believe Tuitt would be a beast in our scheme & strongly believe he should be an option before all 3 of the DE's currently on it.


Aight bruh. If you want to think that a 320+ pound DE would handle the responsibilities required of the position in our scheme, you go right ahead.

What's your support for your "strong disagreement" and "strong belief" besides the word strong?

Cool Story Bro!


Anyways I didn't know that weight played a part in whether or not a player could play DE. I guess you disqualify QB's who aren't 6'1" or taller to right?

Now if you want to disagree with me go ahead, I simply stated my opinion and let you know I strongly disagree with you. Tuitt can use his size to his advantage and he knows how to play in the backfield and has no issue getting after the QB which shouldn't have to be discussed based on ranking 7th in the FBS in sack yardage, 13th in Sacks & 14th in sacks per game. He did all this as a sophmore and should only get better with another season under his belt.

Now sure he might have a bad season but I don't think anything he's done so far proves or rather shows he can't play DE in a 4-3 scheme. If anything I think putting him in a 3-4 would be a waste of his talent.

The better question is what makes you think he couldn't play DE in our scheme besides the fact that you don't believe so.


Wow. Have you seen the type of impact JJ Watt and Mo Wilkerson have had from the 3-4 DE position?

Sure, you're right on the fact that Tuitt can use his size, strength, and penetration skills in the pros.... playing as a 3-technique DT in a 4-3 or 5-tech DE in a 3-4. In our 4-3, Tampa 2 defense, however, we ask our DE's to burst off the line and bend the edges or use rip/spin moves and attack the QB. Tuitt is not an edge rusher, he is an inside power rusher. He lacks acceleration and burst. He rarely beats blockers off the snap.

Just look at the way he was used last season in ND's scheme. Tuitt played 5-Technique at Notre Dame in their 3 down-lineman base set and shifted inside to play tackle when they went to the 4-3. He is perfect for this role because of his imposing strength and hand usage.

We have that exact player already though - Everson Griffen.

It's clear that you pimp prospects without really scouting them.
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Boda


Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 781
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jshowers wrote:
Boda wrote:
jshowers wrote:
Boda wrote:
jshowers wrote:
Boda wrote:
Curious as to who went with DE - Lynch and didn't simply write in Stephon Tuitt if they wanted us to go DE or was that person simply assuming he'd be gone by our pick?

Actually I'm curious as to why Tuitt isn't on the list at all when there's three DE's on the list.


Tuitt is too big to play 4-3 DE in our scheme. He's a perfect fit a the 5-Tech for a 3-4 team or otherwise would have to play inside in a 4-3.

I strongly disagree. I believe Tuitt would be a beast in our scheme & strongly believe he should be an option before all 3 of the DE's currently on it.


Aight bruh. If you want to think that a 320+ pound DE would handle the responsibilities required of the position in our scheme, you go right ahead.

What's your support for your "strong disagreement" and "strong belief" besides the word strong?

Cool Story Bro!


Anyways I didn't know that weight played a part in whether or not a player could play DE. I guess you disqualify QB's who aren't 6'1" or taller to right?

Now if you want to disagree with me go ahead, I simply stated my opinion and let you know I strongly disagree with you. Tuitt can use his size to his advantage and he knows how to play in the backfield and has no issue getting after the QB which shouldn't have to be discussed based on ranking 7th in the FBS in sack yardage, 13th in Sacks & 14th in sacks per game. He did all this as a sophmore and should only get better with another season under his belt.

Now sure he might have a bad season but I don't think anything he's done so far proves or rather shows he can't play DE in a 4-3 scheme. If anything I think putting him in a 3-4 would be a waste of his talent.

The better question is what makes you think he couldn't play DE in our scheme besides the fact that you don't believe so.


Wow. Have you seen the type of impact JJ Watt and Mo Wilkerson have had from the 3-4 DE position?

Sure, you're right on the fact that Tuitt can use his size, strength, and penetration skills in the pros.... playing as a 3-technique DT in a 4-3 or 5-tech DE in a 3-4. In our 4-3, Tampa 2 defense, however, we ask our DE's to burst off the line and bend the edges or use rip/spin moves and attack the QB. Tuitt is not an edge rusher, he is an inside power rusher. He lacks acceleration and burst. He rarely beats blockers off the snap.

Just look at the way he was used last season in ND's scheme. Tuitt played 5-Technique at Notre Dame in their 3 down-lineman base set and shifted inside to play tackle when they went to the 4-3. He is perfect for this role because of his imposing strength and hand usage.

We have that exact player already though - Everson Griffen.

It's clear that you pimp prospects without really scouting them.

I was going to say maybe he can have the type of impact JJ Watt has but figured I leave it alone but since you brought Watt up are you trying to say that Watt wouldn't have the same type of impact playing in a 4-3?

Once again it's nice to know that you can tell me exactly what I do, this is like the 3rd or 4th time you've done that in the past 2 or 3 days. How about you just relax and understand that what you believe isn't the be all end all and stop trying to tell me that I haven't watched players play because like I told you the other day I don't talk about players I've never seen play.
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jshowers


Joined: 03 May 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boda wrote:
jshowers wrote:
Boda wrote:
jshowers wrote:
Boda wrote:
jshowers wrote:
Boda wrote:
Curious as to who went with DE - Lynch and didn't simply write in Stephon Tuitt if they wanted us to go DE or was that person simply assuming he'd be gone by our pick?

Actually I'm curious as to why Tuitt isn't on the list at all when there's three DE's on the list.


Tuitt is too big to play 4-3 DE in our scheme. He's a perfect fit a the 5-Tech for a 3-4 team or otherwise would have to play inside in a 4-3.

I strongly disagree. I believe Tuitt would be a beast in our scheme & strongly believe he should be an option before all 3 of the DE's currently on it.


Aight bruh. If you want to think that a 320+ pound DE would handle the responsibilities required of the position in our scheme, you go right ahead.

What's your support for your "strong disagreement" and "strong belief" besides the word strong?

Cool Story Bro!


Anyways I didn't know that weight played a part in whether or not a player could play DE. I guess you disqualify QB's who aren't 6'1" or taller to right?

Now if you want to disagree with me go ahead, I simply stated my opinion and let you know I strongly disagree with you. Tuitt can use his size to his advantage and he knows how to play in the backfield and has no issue getting after the QB which shouldn't have to be discussed based on ranking 7th in the FBS in sack yardage, 13th in Sacks & 14th in sacks per game. He did all this as a sophmore and should only get better with another season under his belt.

Now sure he might have a bad season but I don't think anything he's done so far proves or rather shows he can't play DE in a 4-3 scheme. If anything I think putting him in a 3-4 would be a waste of his talent.

The better question is what makes you think he couldn't play DE in our scheme besides the fact that you don't believe so.


Wow. Have you seen the type of impact JJ Watt and Mo Wilkerson have had from the 3-4 DE position?

Sure, you're right on the fact that Tuitt can use his size, strength, and penetration skills in the pros.... playing as a 3-technique DT in a 4-3 or 5-tech DE in a 3-4. In our 4-3, Tampa 2 defense, however, we ask our DE's to burst off the line and bend the edges or use rip/spin moves and attack the QB. Tuitt is not an edge rusher, he is an inside power rusher. He lacks acceleration and burst. He rarely beats blockers off the snap.

Just look at the way he was used last season in ND's scheme. Tuitt played 5-Technique at Notre Dame in their 3 down-lineman base set and shifted inside to play tackle when they went to the 4-3. He is perfect for this role because of his imposing strength and hand usage.

We have that exact player already though - Everson Griffen.

It's clear that you pimp prospects without really scouting them.

I was going to say maybe he can have the type of impact JJ Watt has but figured I leave it alone but since you brought Watt up are you trying to say that Watt wouldn't have the same type of impact playing in a 4-3?

Once again it's nice to know that you can tell me exactly what I do, this is like the 3rd or 4th time you've done that in the past 2 or 3 days. How about you just relax and understand that what you believe isn't the be all end all and stop trying to tell me that I haven't watched players play because like I told you the other day I don't talk about players I've never seen play.


You responded to absolutely none of my scouting notes on Tuitt. Do you have a response or just choose to ignore the truth?

Notes from a scout on Tuitt:

Quote:
While Tuitt has a well-rounded game that should draw looks from many NFL teams, his value should certainly be higher to 3-4 teams as a 5-technique defensive end than it will be at other traditional spots in a 4-3 defense.

Although he does not have great explosion, even for an interior defensive lineman, he has terrific measurables for a 3-4 defensive end. He has the length and size to be an effective two-gap player, as he does a good job of clogging running lanes and sustaining double-team blocks.
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Boda


Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jshowers wrote:

You responded to absolutely none of my scouting notes on Tuitt. Do you have a response or just choose to ignore the truth?

Huh? How am I ignoring the Truth? Also what makes you think what you believe is the truth and for someone who wants to bring up ignoring things why didn't you respond to my question about Watt?

jshowers wrote:

Notes from a scout on Tuitt:

While Tuitt has a well-rounded game that should draw looks from many NFL teams, his value should certainly be higher to 3-4 teams as a 5-technique defensive end than it will be at other traditional spots in a 4-3 defense.

Although he does not have great explosion, even for an interior defensive lineman, he has terrific measurables for a 3-4 defensive end. He has the length and size to be an effective two-gap player, as he does a good job of clogging running lanes and sustaining double-team blocks.

Now this is your scouting report on him and even if it wasn't it doesn't really matter to me as everyone scouts players differently. Tuitt actually does have good explosion, what he doesn't have is good anticipation of the snap. He plays with and uses his leverage very well to the point where he can take on the run or rush the passer. His biggest concern right now is if he will continue to use his size/leverage well coming back this season from his hernia.

I also never said he wouldn't be a good fit in a 3-4 I just happen to think he'd be just as good if not better playing in our scheme especially lining up on a D-Line that should feature Floyd & Griffen. I even think that in certain situations that he'd be a great fit as our NT pairing with Floyd with Griffen and hopefully one of Robison or Allen. Now maybe it's just the type of players I covet but I like versatile players.
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jshowers


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boda wrote:
Also what makes you think what you believe is the truth and for someone who wants to bring up ignoring things why didn't you respond to my question about Watt?


It's the truth that Tuitt isn't as explosive as the 4-3 DEs in our roster, namely Jared Allen, Brian Robison, and Everson Griffen. He simply does not have the speed off the edge that they do, and that's a fact.

In regards to Watt, I believe he would be a good player in a 4-3 scheme but nowhere near as successful as he's been in the Texans 3-4 attacking defense. The opportunities and responsibilities of that defense are perfectly tailored to his skill set, and in a 4-3 he would be tasked with different assignments that wouldn't allow him to be the same player.

Boda wrote:
I also never said he wouldn't be a good fit in a 3-4 I just happen to think he'd be just as good if not better playing in our scheme especially lining up on a D-Line that should feature Floyd & Griffen. I even think that in certain situations that he'd be a great fit as our NT pairing with Floyd with Griffen and hopefully one of Robison or Allen. Now maybe it's just the type of players I covet but I like versatile players.


You "just happen to think". Again, PLEASE. EXPLAIN. WITH. EVIDENCE.
You make these claims and don't back them up with your scout's take on Tuitt's attributes. I have clearly stated that he does not off the burst off the LOS that Allen or Robison does. He also outweighs both of them by at least 50 pounds at this point. He is also functionally stronger than both of those players. Based on that reasoning, he is not the type of player we employ as a defensive end in Minnesota.

He has some traits in common with Everson Griffen, though he is bigger and stronger while Griffen is more quick-twitch and explosive. Griffen is one of the league's most promising players, though, and is an excellent fit for our rotational DE/DT role. If he were to start full time, though, it would be at DE because of his SPEED. If Tuitt were our hybrid DE/DT and given the chance to be a full time player, he would start full time at 3-Tech DT because he is slower but STRONG and POWERFUL. Since Griffen is already an excellent hybrid player, and we just drafted Floyd, I don't see a fit for Tuitt.

He is actually closer to Kevin Williams than anyone else on our roster, and Kevin's replacement was just drafted.
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this providence


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we're only discounting Bridgewater and Clowney, I still don't understand why Bradley Roby isn't listed...
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Boda


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jshowers wrote:
Boda wrote:
Also what makes you think what you believe is the truth and for someone who wants to bring up ignoring things why didn't you respond to my question about Watt?


It's the truth that Tuitt isn't as explosive as the 4-3 DEs in our roster, namely Jared Allen, Brian Robison, and Everson Griffen. He simply does not have the speed off the edge that they do, and that's a fact.

In regards to Watt, I believe he would be a good player in a 4-3 scheme but nowhere near as successful as he's been in the Texans 3-4 attacking defense. The opportunities and responsibilities of that defense are perfectly tailored to his skill set, and in a 4-3 he would be tasked with different assignments that wouldn't allow him to be the same player.

Hopefully I quoted these correctly. Please answer me this, when did I ever say or try to say that Tuitt was as explosive as Allen, Robison or Griffen? Easy Answer is I haven't so I'm not really sure why you continue to bring up things that I've never said, once again you're simply putting words in my mouth.

Since you brought up those three players though I will comment on them. Just because they aren't as explosive as them doesn't mean that Tuitt can't be successful in our system. I actually think that Tuitt is a much better version of Ray Edwards as Tuitt actually has pass rushing ability and is a lot more explosive than you want to admit.

As for JJ Watt you simply said it yourself he can play in the 4-3 I believe Tuitt can as well and yes I continue to say I believe because guess what until he actually plays a snap in the NFL no one can say anything is guaranteed. Just because players get hyped doesn't mean they will pan out. Aaron Curry anyone? Anyways getting back to what I was saying just because Watt is in a perfect situation for himself in Houston's attacking defense doesn't mean he wouldn't be just as dominant or effective in say our scheme, that is something that no one knows or will know because he likely isn't leaving the Texans.

jshowers wrote:
Boda wrote:
I also never said he wouldn't be a good fit in a 3-4 I just happen to think he'd be just as good if not better playing in our scheme especially lining up on a D-Line that should feature Floyd & Griffen. I even think that in certain situations that he'd be a great fit as our NT pairing with Floyd with Griffen and hopefully one of Robison or Allen. Now maybe it's just the type of players I covet but I like versatile players.


You "just happen to think". Again, PLEASE. EXPLAIN. WITH. EVIDENCE.
You make these claims and don't back them up with your scout's take on Tuitt's attributes. I have clearly stated that he does not off the burst off the LOS that Allen or Robison does. He also outweighs both of them by at least 50 pounds at this point. He is also functionally stronger than both of those players. Based on that reasoning, he is not the type of player we employ as a defensive end in Minnesota.

He has some traits in common with Everson Griffen, though he is bigger and stronger while Griffen is more quick-twitch and explosive. Griffen is one of the league's most promising players, though, and is an excellent fit for our rotational DE/DT role. If he were to start full time, though, it would be at DE because of his SPEED. If Tuitt were our hybrid DE/DT and given the chance to be a full time player, he would start full time at 3-Tech DT because he is slower but STRONG and POWERFUL. Since Griffen is already an excellent hybrid player, and we just drafted Floyd, I don't see a fit for Tuitt.

He is actually closer to Kevin Williams than anyone else on our roster, and Kevin's replacement was just drafted.


Now as for me not backing up what I say I don't get if you're just not paying attention or what but I have said a few times why I think he'd be a fit in our defense and yes that's my opinion as I'm my own scout, I don't use info that other writers or experts do, I come to my own conclusions and more often than not I'm right, now I'm not claiming to be this draft or college Guru as this is just a sports board where I express my thoughts or rather opinions so of coarse what I say is going to say IMO or my belief, I just don't understand why that's hard to understand but for some reason you view your opinion as more valid than mine when the bottom line is we are both just giving our opinion or someone else's.

As for Tuitt I don't get where you're saying he's slow because he's not and especially not for his size. Is he as fast as a Robison, Griffen or Allen, most likely not but that doesn't mean he can't be a good or even very good player in this league.

Now you say Griffen would start over Tuitt, I'm not saying he wouldn't but if Tuitt falls to our pick he would be incredible value and most likely Robison and or Allen won't be with the Vikings longer than 3 or 4yrs at the max and if Tuitt becomes as good as I believe he can and will than what is the problem? Wouldn't that just give us some great depth or even a very nice trading piece to get another piece to the puzzle while at the same time getting us younger in the process?

Anyways I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on how he'd fit our team.
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