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Saints Cut OT Jason Smith, FA Tackles Available
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HyponGrey


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
Posts: 3736
Location: Down the road from NFL Films
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McThreadski wrote:
HyponGrey wrote:
Kilr0y wrote:
gizmo2012 wrote:
We got beat in the 2nd round by the NFC Champions, we're terrible.


Oh c'mon I didn't say that. We beat a joke of a Vikings team and got destroyed by San Fran. If you're calling that a deep run I differ with your definition of deep run. We were still a good team. It's just hard to be the fan of a team that NEVER makes upgrades through free agency. I don't know what you're all watching, but I would take Jamaal Brown over either of our starting tackles in a heartbeat.
That joke of a Vikings team beat SF, and also beat us to make it to the playoffs. Because making the playoffs and even the quarter finals is easy. You sound like a spoiled brat.


They didn't have Diamond Joe Webb playing QB when they beat the 49'ers and us. That play-off game against us was kind of a joke.

I think Kilr0y makes some good points. It seems like everyone is assuming that everybody comes back and are just as good as they were, or improves drastically over what they were and everyone else stays healthy and continues to improve. I wouldn't mind keeping our options open at this point. If an upgrade comes along, I would think about it if I were TT.
*shudder* I forgot about Joe Webb. I take it back, that game WAS a joke.

Sherrod's injury very well could have cost him some mobility, and as it stands he'll probably start the season on PUP anyway. Newhuse is a quality back-up, Barclay isn't great, but at the same time, the thread title is about a guy who couldn beat Jermon Bushrod for a job. If there was an upgrade out there I might support a signing, but I don't see one and I'm not one of those unrealistic and FA hungry guys who unrealistically convinces himself that "somebody, anybody has got to be better than the scrub we got." and panics then gets mad when we don't sign a known bum over an unknown quantity that, to date has looked at least as good as the alternative.
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wgbeethree wrote:
Serious questions........
With all of the slack the OL takes when was the last time you would blame a loss on them?

The Seattle game? They were abysmal the first half but there may have been some other extenuating circumstances. Certainly not the last three playoff loses.

For as many sacks as AR12 takes when was the last time he got absolutely drilled?

The conclusion vs. Washington in '10? I honestly don't remember him getting hit clean enough recently that I worried for his health.


The Seattle was poor OL play and even POORER offensive playcalling by MM. I believe that he called 2 running plays to a RB in the first half...Seattle registers 8 sacks. Goes to the running game in the second half and ... Seattle registers 0 sacks.

Improved running game will help the OL in pass protection.
Improved play calling by MM will help the OL in pass protection.
ARod getting the ball out faster and not holding it for the homerun play will help the sack #'s and OL.
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Crazyman


Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: UWW
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wgbeethree wrote:

The conclusion vs. Washington in '10? I honestly don't remember him getting hit clean enough recently that I worried for his health.
What about that helmet to helmet hit in the playoffs from Peppers? I mean he was alright, but it looked pretty bad.
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wgbeethree


Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazyman wrote:
wgbeethree wrote:

The conclusion vs. Washington in '10? I honestly don't remember him getting hit clean enough recently that I worried for his health.
What about that helmet to helmet hit in the playoffs from Peppers? I mean he was alright, but it looked pretty bad.


So that's still 35ish games ago. I'm sure there's another few good hits in there but my point remains. For as often as I/we say "Ugh! ANOTHER sack. Sad" rarely do I/we say "OMG! Rodgers is getting KILLED back there!"
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Crazyman


Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wgbeethree wrote:
Crazyman wrote:
wgbeethree wrote:

The conclusion vs. Washington in '10? I honestly don't remember him getting hit clean enough recently that I worried for his health.
What about that helmet to helmet hit in the playoffs from Peppers? I mean he was alright, but it looked pretty bad.


So that's still 35ish games ago. I'm sure there's another few good hits in there but my point remains. For as often as I/we say "Ugh! ANOTHER sack. Sad" rarely do I/we say "OMG! Rodgers is getting KILLED back there!"
Oh I agree. The o-line might give up a few sacks but this is still one of the best offenses in the league. When we lose it's almost never due to lack of scoring.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wgbeethree wrote:
Crazyman wrote:
wgbeethree wrote:

The conclusion vs. Washington in '10? I honestly don't remember him getting hit clean enough recently that I worried for his health.
What about that helmet to helmet hit in the playoffs from Peppers? I mean he was alright, but it looked pretty bad.


So that's still 35ish games ago. I'm sure there's another few good hits in there but my point remains. For as often as I/we say "Ugh! ANOTHER sack. Sad" rarely do I/we say "OMG! Rodgers is getting KILLED back there!"


Yeah he takes too many sacks, but many of those, when he holds the ball, he covers it and eats it, protecting himself from the big hit, and not just chucking it up and hoping, forcing something that ends up a big mistake.
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Pugger


Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 9080
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="rbens06"]
Kilr0y wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
I don't deny Bak is talented, but in the Rams game he got burned pretty bad once or twice. He's still a rookie. Bakhtiari, Barclay, and Newhouse would get Rodgers sacked 50 times this year. You didn't say anything about Jamaal Brown. There are some guys out there at FA, and I don't see how we can stick with what we've got at OT and genuinely expect to make a deep run this year. What happens if even one more guy goes down? One word describes us at OT: thin.


Bak is a rookie is undoubtedly will make some mistakes, to expect him to be flawless would be unrealistic, but I do not think that, or "getting burned by the Rams", is anything to panic about. He has matched up and performed extremely well against Matthews in practice and he was very good against Arizona. I think that he is more than capable of being a better blind side protector than Newhouse was.

I think that our tackles are fine to give us a deep run. Defense was the killer last year and with a stronger defense we should make a better/deeper run.

I wouldn't hang my hat on Brown's resume either. Yes he has good size and ability coming out of college, but things can change. He was beaten out by Bushrod in New Orleans and then had some injury plagued years in Washington. Like others have said pro bowl can be misleading, but either way the last pro bowl was 4 seasons ago and many less injuries ago. If he was that good of a T he probably would not be on the market. Could he be a solid player for us? Possibly, but no way do I say he is a clear cut upgrade over what we have on the roster.


And EVERY tackle will get burned a few times in a game - even the old pros. It is concerning to have a rookie protecting Rodgers' blindside but Bulaga played well at RT as a rookie too.
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Pugger


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Are we really thin at OT? We've got Bak, Barclay, Newhouse, Sherrod coming off of PUP and probably Datko who I still am holding out hopes for.

We're not thin, we just don't have high end talent.


And we don't have a lot of experience at the tackle position right now either.
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CactusPackFan


Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 761
Location: AZ
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am chiming in because I do not see that anyone is bringing up #12's role in the last two seasons. Of the 87 sacks of #12 in the last 2 years, how many of these were on him for holding the ball too long? I think a reasonable % is 40%. So taking that number down to 52 or so over two seasons is not so horrible, and AROD himself said that if we can get to half of last year's number the offense would be dramatically more efficient and productive. Agreed that our OT situation is not great, but it's far from dire.
Nobody is bringing up James Campen either. I personally think he should have been on the hot seat the last 2 years to lose his job.
He was mediocre as a player and is even worse as a coach IMO.
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HyponGrey


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
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Location: Down the road from NFL Films
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CactusPackFan wrote:
I am chiming in because I do not see that anyone is bringing up #12's role in the last two seasons. Of the 87 sacks of #12 in the last 2 years, how many of these were on him for holding the ball too long? I think a reasonable % is 40%. So taking that number down to 52 or so over two seasons is not so horrible, and AROD himself said that if we can get to half of last year's number the offense would be dramatically more efficient and productive. Agreed that our OT situation is not great, but it's far from dire.
Nobody is bringing up James Campen either. I personally think he should have been on the hot seat the last 2 years to lose his job.
He was mediocre as a player and is even worse as a coach IMO.
TT was even more mediocre. Should he be fired, or should he never have gotten a chancein the first place? What about the Harbaughs? If I'm gonna fire him it'll be because of his poor coaching. He's done a decent job developing pass blockers though, just look at how far Barclay has come.
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MMcKay16


Joined: 03 Jan 2012
Posts: 326
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
wgbeethree wrote:
Crazyman wrote:
wgbeethree wrote:

The conclusion vs. Washington in '10? I honestly don't remember him getting hit clean enough recently that I worried for his health.
What about that helmet to helmet hit in the playoffs from Peppers? I mean he was alright, but it looked pretty bad.


So that's still 35ish games ago. I'm sure there's another few good hits in there but my point remains. For as often as I/we say "Ugh! ANOTHER sack. Sad" rarely do I/we say "OMG! Rodgers is getting KILLED back there!"


Yeah he takes too many sacks, but many of those, when he holds the ball, he covers it and eats it, protecting himself from the big hit, and not just chucking it up and hoping, forcing something that ends up a big mistake.


I'm on board with this, as long as he isn't getting nailed I'd much rather Rodgers take a sack that maybe ends a drive than throw an interception that does end the drive.
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McThreadski


Joined: 11 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HyponGrey wrote:
McThreadski wrote:
HyponGrey wrote:
Kilr0y wrote:
gizmo2012 wrote:
We got beat in the 2nd round by the NFC Champions, we're terrible.


Oh c'mon I didn't say that. We beat a joke of a Vikings team and got destroyed by San Fran. If you're calling that a deep run I differ with your definition of deep run. We were still a good team. It's just hard to be the fan of a team that NEVER makes upgrades through free agency. I don't know what you're all watching, but I would take Jamaal Brown over either of our starting tackles in a heartbeat.
That joke of a Vikings team beat SF, and also beat us to make it to the playoffs. Because making the playoffs and even the quarter finals is easy. You sound like a spoiled brat.


They didn't have Diamond Joe Webb playing QB when they beat the 49'ers and us. That play-off game against us was kind of a joke.

I think Kilr0y makes some good points. It seems like everyone is assuming that everybody comes back and are just as good as they were, or improves drastically over what they were and everyone else stays healthy and continues to improve. I wouldn't mind keeping our options open at this point. If an upgrade comes along, I would think about it if I were TT.
*shudder* I forgot about Joe Webb. I take it back, that game WAS a joke.

Sherrod's injury very well could have cost him some mobility, and as it stands he'll probably start the season on PUP anyway. Newhuse is a quality back-up, Barclay isn't great, but at the same time, the thread title is about a guy who couldn beat Jermon Bushrod for a job. If there was an upgrade out there I might support a signing, but I don't see one and I'm not one of those unrealistic and FA hungry guys who unrealistically convinces himself that "somebody, anybody has got to be better than the scrub we got." and panics then gets mad when we don't sign a known bum over an unknown quantity that, to date has looked at least as good as the alternative.


I am in the camp that has Sherrod written off and anything positive that he produces in the future will be a pleasant surprise. That said, I wish NFL football was a three legged sack race and we could pair Newhouse with Barclay and make them an unstoppable force by combining their strengths in pass pro and run blocking respectively.

If the right guy came along for the right money, something like the way Tauscher came back in the twilight of his career, I would do it. Guys like Barclay are fairly easy to replace and that might leave us with Newhouse as a back-up plan, which is really all he was in the first place. Maybe all we need is one year and then Bulaga can come back and we have a good pair if Bak pans out.

Just sayin' that this might be a good scenario to step out of the normal TT box and buy a box of band-aids for one year. Our window with Rodgers is open now, but too many years can fly by if we always rely 100% on the draft and develop scheme(which I do fully endorse for the most part).

I feel like the Packers and the Patriots have done the best job of building rosters, the only notable difference is in the way they use free-agency. I think they have shown that wise use of FA in combination with D&D can produce a nearly perpetual contender as long as the QB position is set in stone.
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packattack86


Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our tackle situation is pretty shaky, but signing a street FA isn't the answer. We will roll w/ the young guys we have and only add someone if there is an injury or if for some reason a decent tackle gets cut due to salary. There are a lot of IF's around our young tackles, but they are the best we have at the moment. We are lucky that #12 is so good and mobile, and w/ an improved running game we will be a good team.
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Kilr0y


Joined: 09 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

packattack86 wrote:
Our tackle situation is pretty shaky, but signing a street FA isn't the answer. We will roll w/ the young guys we have and only add someone if there is an injury or if for some reason a decent tackle gets cut due to salary. There are a lot of IF's around our young tackles, but they are the best we have at the moment. We are lucky that #12 is so good and mobile, and w/ an improved running game we will be a good team.


My line of thinking is if you have no high end talent, no real experience, and are fairly thin at a position you should at least bring in some so-so veterans because you never know who's going to prove that they still have it. I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot of OTs cut around the NFL to get down to 53. I know it's not TTs philosophy but with Bulaga down I don't see how you can't pull the trigger on someone. It's a zero sum league, some other team picking up a guy is our loss. If we keep pretending that's not true we'll end up starting Lane Taylor and Don Barclay by Week 17 and go 9-7.
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HyponGrey


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilr0y wrote:
packattack86 wrote:
Our tackle situation is pretty shaky, but signing a street FA isn't the answer. We will roll w/ the young guys we have and only add someone if there is an injury or if for some reason a decent tackle gets cut due to salary. There are a lot of IF's around our young tackles, but they are the best we have at the moment. We are lucky that #12 is so good and mobile, and w/ an improved running game we will be a good team.


My line of thinking is if you have no high end talent, no real experience, and are fairly thin at a position you should at least bring in some so-so veterans because you never know who's going to prove that they still have it. I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot of OTs cut around the NFL to get down to 53. I know it's not TTs philosophy but with Bulaga down I don't see how you can't pull the trigger on someone. It's a zero sum league, some other team picking up a guy is our loss. If we keep pretending that's not true we'll end up starting Lane Taylor and Don Barclay by Week 17 and go 9-7.
If we're really lucky Rodgers goes down early and we try to figure out how to use Clowney next year. None of the mediocre guys that get cut will be any better than what we already have, (Hell, what round was Hughes drafted in again?) and the ones worth taking will either be too expensive, or claimed long before we get a shot at them. When the tank clearly says empty, you don't hit the gas.
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