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Saints Cut OT Jason Smith, FA Tackles Available
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blankman0021


Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 1782
Location: MKE
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilr0y wrote:
gizmo2012 wrote:
We got beat in the 2nd round by the NFC Champions, we're terrible.


Oh c'mon I didn't say that. We beat a joke of a Vikings team and got destroyed by San Fran. If you're calling that a deep run I differ with your definition of deep run. We were still a good team. It's just hard to be the fan of a team that NEVER makes upgrades through free agency. I don't know what you're all watching, but I would take Jamaal Brown over either of our starting tackles in a heartbeat.

PackFan4Life wrote:
Yeah, maybe that is the reason he cannot get a job anywhere else in the league right now at a premium position.


I don't know Jamaal Brown personally, so I'm not going to pretend like I know exactly why he's still a free agent. Could be rehabbing still. Could be enjoying a year off. Could be waiting for the right situation. Our starting OTs are among the worst in the league. If someone available could upgrade us we've got to pull the trigger.



_______________


Step off the ledge. We'll be just fine. Yes, we are thin at OT. But we have a former 1st round pick right now that will (most likely) be coming off of PUP later in the year to give us depth. He'll be very raw, and if we have any injuries then I'm sure we'll bring in a vet or activate somebody off of our future practice squad.

The thing is though, anytime you bring in a guy off the street there is a learning curve if he doesn't know your playbook. The ONLY guy that I think to bring in right now would be Jason Spitz. And that is only if he is healthy and can still play. Neither of which is a guarantee considering the Jags just cut him.

Jason Smith is garbage at this point. And Jamaal Brown cannot stay healthy. There are teams (like the Raiders and Chargers) that are EXTREMELY THIN at OL. If these guys were any good- they wouldn't be on the market. And the Saints have a thinner OL than we do anyways. If he isn't making it on the Saints, he wont on the Pack. No reason to waste 1Million on a reserve tackle when we can pay somebody 300K for the same quality- especially when that cheaper player knows our playbook.

Look for us to have a line of Bakh-Sitton-EDS-Lang-Barclay going into the season. If EDS can get some push up the middle, we might even be a pretty competent run blocking team. If you're still thinking about jumping off that cliff- just remember our best OL in recent memory was made up of a 2nd round pick, 2nd round pick(supp draft), 3rd round pick, 6th round pick, and 7th round pick.

Right now we have a line of 4th rounder, 4th rounder, UDFA, 4th rounder, UDFA. We were supposed to have a first rounder at LT and RT too. Not TT's fault these kids aren't staying healthy. You can only invest so many picks on OL and DL and Ted has been going with those positions as often as he can it seems like. I'm just glad that this line has some time to jell before the season so we can give Rodgers some continuity up front. Sometimes that's more important for these lineman than having all 1st rounders up front.
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rbens06


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Kilr0y"]
MNPackfan32 wrote:
I don't deny Bak is talented, but in the Rams game he got burned pretty bad once or twice. He's still a rookie. Bakhtiari, Barclay, and Newhouse would get Rodgers sacked 50 times this year. You didn't say anything about Jamaal Brown. There are some guys out there at FA, and I don't see how we can stick with what we've got at OT and genuinely expect to make a deep run this year. What happens if even one more guy goes down? One word describes us at OT: thin.


Bak is a rookie is undoubtedly will make some mistakes, to expect him to be flawless would be unrealistic, but I do not think that, or "getting burned by the Rams", is anything to panic about. He has matched up and performed extremely well against Matthews in practice and he was very good against Arizona. I think that he is more than capable of being a better blind side protector than Newhouse was.

I think that our tackles are fine to give us a deep run. Defense was the killer last year and with a stronger defense we should make a better/deeper run.

I wouldn't hang my hat on Brown's resume either. Yes he has good size and ability coming out of college, but things can change. He was beaten out by Bushrod in New Orleans and then had some injury plagued years in Washington. Like others have said pro bowl can be misleading, but either way the last pro bowl was 4 seasons ago and many less injuries ago. If he was that good of a T he probably would not be on the market. Could he be a solid player for us? Possibly, but no way do I say he is a clear cut upgrade over what we have on the roster.
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blankman0021 wrote:
Kilr0y wrote:
gizmo2012 wrote:
We got beat in the 2nd round by the NFC Champions, we're terrible.


Oh c'mon I didn't say that. We beat a joke of a Vikings team and got destroyed by San Fran. If you're calling that a deep run I differ with your definition of deep run. We were still a good team. It's just hard to be the fan of a team that NEVER makes upgrades through free agency. I don't know what you're all watching, but I would take Jamaal Brown over either of our starting tackles in a heartbeat.

PackFan4Life wrote:
Yeah, maybe that is the reason he cannot get a job anywhere else in the league right now at a premium position.


I don't know Jamaal Brown personally, so I'm not going to pretend like I know exactly why he's still a free agent. Could be rehabbing still. Could be enjoying a year off. Could be waiting for the right situation. Our starting OTs are among the worst in the league. If someone available could upgrade us we've got to pull the trigger.



_______________


Step off the ledge. We'll be just fine. Yes, we are thin at OT. But we have a former 1st round pick right now that will (most likely) be coming off of PUP later in the year to give us depth. He'll be very raw, and if we have any injuries then I'm sure we'll bring in a vet or activate somebody off of our future practice squad.

The thing is though, anytime you bring in a guy off the street there is a learning curve if he doesn't know your playbook. The ONLY guy that I think to bring in right now would be Jason Spitz. And that is only if he is healthy and can still play. Neither of which is a guarantee considering the Jags just cut him.

Jason Smith is garbage at this point. And Jamaal Brown cannot stay healthy. There are teams (like the Raiders and Chargers) that are EXTREMELY THIN at OL. If these guys were any good- they wouldn't be on the market. And the Saints have a thinner OL than we do anyways. If he isn't making it on the Saints, he wont on the Pack. No reason to waste 1Million on a reserve tackle when we can pay somebody 300K for the same quality- especially when that cheaper player knows our playbook.

Look for us to have a line of Bakh-Sitton-EDS-Lang-Barclay going into the season. If EDS can get some push up the middle, we might even be a pretty competent run blocking team. If you're still thinking about jumping off that cliff- just remember our best OL in recent memory was made up of a 2nd round pick, 2nd round pick(supp draft), 3rd round pick, 6th round pick, and 7th round pick.

Right now we have a line of 4th rounder, 4th rounder, UDFA, 4th rounder, UDFA. We were supposed to have a first rounder at LT and RT too. Not TT's fault these kids aren't staying healthy. You can only invest so many picks on OL and DL and Ted has been going with those positions as often as he can it seems like. I'm just glad that this line has some time to jell before the season so we can give Rodgers some continuity up front. Sometimes that's more important for these lineman than having all 1st rounders up front.


Spot on.
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Gopackgonerd


Joined: 04 May 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wouldn't hurt to bring one of these guys in...

Our history will show that we haven't brought in Free Agents unless we absolutely need them.

I don't think we necessarily need them as of right now.

We'll see how Bakhtiari, Barclay, Newhouse, and Datko does.

If they completely suck it up, we will sign one. Imho this group is better than nothing.

I wouldn't mind bringing one of them in more for competition.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we really thin at OT? We've got Bak, Barclay, Newhouse, Sherrod coming off of PUP and probably Datko who I still am holding out hopes for.

We're not thin, we just don't have high end talent.
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blankman0021


Joined: 02 May 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopackgonerd wrote:
It wouldn't hurt to bring one of these guys in...

Our history will show that we haven't brought in Free Agents unless we absolutely need them.

I don't think we necessarily need them as of right now.

We'll see how Bakhtiari, Barclay, Newhouse, and Datko does.

If they completely suck it up, we will sign one. Imho this group is better than nothing.

I wouldn't mind bringing one of them in more for competition.


At this point though, unless we suffer a few more significant injuries to the OL, it is pointless to bring in a vet that hasn't played in our system before. It would take them too long to learn the system and be effective playing in it, and if they are a vested vet their salary is guaranteed if they are on the roster week 1. If we want competition from a vet, look for teams to wait until week 2 to bring anybody on board. We only have so much salary cap to work with, an vets cost more then rookies and younger players. It doesn't make sense to eat 700K if we don't need to.
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blankman0021


Joined: 02 May 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Are we really thin at OT? We've got Bak, Barclay, Newhouse, Sherrod coming off of PUP and probably Datko who I still am holding out hopes for.

We're not thin, we just don't have high end talent.


Exactly. And if Bak hits, Bulaga comes back next year with a fire under him, and Sherrod eventually gets into the swing of things we become VERY deep.
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Kilr0y


Joined: 09 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
blankman0021 wrote:
Step off the ledge. We'll be just fine. Yes, we are thin at OT. But we have a former 1st round pick right now that will (most likely) be coming off of PUP later in the year to give us depth. He'll be very raw, and if we have any injuries then I'm sure we'll bring in a vet or activate somebody off of our future practice squad.

The thing is though, anytime you bring in a guy off the street there is a learning curve if he doesn't know your playbook. The ONLY guy that I think to bring in right now would be Jason Spitz. And that is only if he is healthy and can still play. Neither of which is a guarantee considering the Jags just cut him.

Jason Smith is garbage at this point. And Jamaal Brown cannot stay healthy. There are teams (like the Raiders and Chargers) that are EXTREMELY THIN at OL. If these guys were any good- they wouldn't be on the market. And the Saints have a thinner OL than we do anyways. If he isn't making it on the Saints, he wont on the Pack. No reason to waste 1Million on a reserve tackle when we can pay somebody 300K for the same quality- especially when that cheaper player knows our playbook.

Look for us to have a line of Bakh-Sitton-EDS-Lang-Barclay going into the season. If EDS can get some push up the middle, we might even be a pretty competent run blocking team. If you're still thinking about jumping off that cliff- just remember our best OL in recent memory was made up of a 2nd round pick, 2nd round pick(supp draft), 3rd round pick, 6th round pick, and 7th round pick.

Right now we have a line of 4th rounder, 4th rounder, UDFA, 4th rounder, UDFA. We were supposed to have a first rounder at LT and RT too. Not TT's fault these kids aren't staying healthy. You can only invest so many picks on OL and DL and Ted has been going with those positions as often as he can it seems like. I'm just glad that this line has some time to jell before the season so we can give Rodgers some continuity up front. Sometimes that's more important for these lineman than having all 1st rounders up front.


Spot on.


I'm taken aback by this forum's confidence in our OTs. Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping you guys are right. I just don't think you are. Sherrod never really showed us anything, so the talk of him coming back from PUP doesn't do much for me. If you call Jason Smith an injury bust, it's confusing to have faith in Derek Sherrod. Furthermore, if you'd ask any other team in the league whether Don Barclay is a starting caliber OT I think they'd laugh at you. Sitton and Lang are great, so I'm not so much talking about the OG situation. It's our young, inexperienced tackles. They could really come back to bite us late in the season or in the playoffs.

Let me shoot some numbers at you:
Marshall Newhouse: 21.5 sacks allowed in last two seasons
Don Barclay: 5 sacks allowed in 6 games last season
David Bakhtiari: Rookie (we can't expect perfection from him)
Derek Sherrod: 0 career starts
Andrew Datko: 0 career games played

Equals

Aaron Rodgers: Sacked 87 times in last two seasons

All I'm saying is wake up FFuture, this situation is fairly dire. More so than even our kicking situation, which is a bold statement. Whether it's Smith, Brown, Spitz, or someone else who gets cut. I'm sure it's a situation that is being monitored by the front office since Bulaga went down. The consensus here seems to be don't worry about it. Not so sure if that's what the reality of the situation is. Again, I hope you guys are right and it will all be fine.



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Dunderhead


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there's a difference in worrying and panicking though?

Are people worried? Yeah, I think everyone here has some worries about LT and even RT. So obviously every most here are watching the tackle play over just watching where the ball goes.

Panicking, on the other hand, is fretting away about some free agent that no team in the league thinks is worth anything. Then complain that the Packer management won't veer off from the draft and develop philosophy which has been so successful.
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blankman0021


Joined: 02 May 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunderhead wrote:
I think there's a difference in worrying and panicking though?

Are people worried? Yeah, I think everyone here has some worries about LT and even RT. So obviously every most here are watching the tackle play over just watching where the ball goes.

Panicking, on the other hand, is fretting away about some free agent that no team in the league thinks is worth anything. Then complain that the Packer management won't veer off from the draft and develop philosophy which has been so successful.


Spot on. Real football doesn't work like madden. You can't just plug in a FA at a premium spot like that (if you aren't forced to). We don't have much cap room to work with, and the learning curve with some of these guys would be too long. We have a pretty complex offense and the guys we have had months or years to learn the play book. You bring in somebody now and they'd have weeks. I'm not saying it can't be done. But I will always take the unproven player over a guy that has tried and failed with multiple teams.

I bet if you asked all 32 GMs they would all rank Barclay ahead of Smith. Then again, the only one that you know truly believes that right now is TT.
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Crazyman


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilr0y wrote:
gizmo2012 wrote:
We got beat in the 2nd round by the NFC Champions, we're terrible.


Oh c'mon I didn't say that. We beat a joke of a Vikings team and got destroyed by San Fran. If you're calling that a deep run I differ with your definition of deep run. We were still a good team. It's just hard to be the fan of a team that NEVER makes upgrades through free agency. I don't know what you're all watching, but I would take Jamaal Brown over either of our starting tackles in a heartbeat.
It's pretty hard to beat teams in the playoffs when in our last 3 losses, our defense has given up an average of 44 points per game...like others have said, get off the ledge please.
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HyponGrey


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilr0y wrote:
squire12 wrote:
blankman0021 wrote:
Step off the ledge. We'll be just fine. Yes, we are thin at OT. But we have a former 1st round pick right now that will (most likely) be coming off of PUP later in the year to give us depth. He'll be very raw, and if we have any injuries then I'm sure we'll bring in a vet or activate somebody off of our future practice squad.

The thing is though, anytime you bring in a guy off the street there is a learning curve if he doesn't know your playbook. The ONLY guy that I think to bring in right now would be Jason Spitz. And that is only if he is healthy and can still play. Neither of which is a guarantee considering the Jags just cut him.

Jason Smith is garbage at this point. And Jamaal Brown cannot stay healthy. There are teams (like the Raiders and Chargers) that are EXTREMELY THIN at OL. If these guys were any good- they wouldn't be on the market. And the Saints have a thinner OL than we do anyways. If he isn't making it on the Saints, he wont on the Pack. No reason to waste 1Million on a reserve tackle when we can pay somebody 300K for the same quality- especially when that cheaper player knows our playbook.

Look for us to have a line of Bakh-Sitton-EDS-Lang-Barclay going into the season. If EDS can get some push up the middle, we might even be a pretty competent run blocking team. If you're still thinking about jumping off that cliff- just remember our best OL in recent memory was made up of a 2nd round pick, 2nd round pick(supp draft), 3rd round pick, 6th round pick, and 7th round pick.

Right now we have a line of 4th rounder, 4th rounder, UDFA, 4th rounder, UDFA. We were supposed to have a first rounder at LT and RT too. Not TT's fault these kids aren't staying healthy. You can only invest so many picks on OL and DL and Ted has been going with those positions as often as he can it seems like. I'm just glad that this line has some time to jell before the season so we can give Rodgers some continuity up front. Sometimes that's more important for these lineman than having all 1st rounders up front.


Spot on.


I'm taken aback by this forum's confidence in our OTs. Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping you guys are right. I just don't think you are. Sherrod never really showed us anything, so the talk of him coming back from PUP doesn't do much for me. If you call Jason Smith an injury bust, it's confusing to have faith in Derek Sherrod. Furthermore, if you'd ask any other team in the league whether Don Barclay is a starting caliber OT I think they'd laugh at you. Sitton and Lang are great, so I'm not so much talking about the OG situation. It's our young, inexperienced tackles. They could really come back to bite us late in the season or in the playoffs.

Let me shoot some numbers at you:
Marshall Newhouse: 21.5 sacks allowed in last two seasons
Don Barclay: 5 sacks allowed in 6 games last season
David Bakhtiari: Rookie (we can't expect perfection from him)
Derek Sherrod: 0 career starts
Andrew Datko: 0 career games played

Equals

Aaron Rodgers: Sacked 87 times in last two seasons

All I'm saying is wake up FFuture, this situation is fairly dire. More so than even our kicking situation, which is a bold statement. Whether it's Smith, Brown, Spitz, or someone else who gets cut. I'm sure it's a situation that is being monitored by the front office since Bulaga went down. The consensus here seems to be don't worry about it. Not so sure if that's what the reality of the situation is. Again, I hope you guys are right and it will all be fine.



____________________
Newhouse sucks, Barclay is untalented, Bakhtiari has looked good, someone forgets that Sherrod has actually played in regular season games and looked decent, Datko fixed his tech but not his strength. Optimistic? Yes, but potential tends to do that to guys. Wake up Kilr0y, Sherrod WAS a 1st round pick, with about as much talent coming out of college as any tackle we have a chance to draft next year, and Newhouse and Barclay could start for more than a few teams in this league. Note: we all talk in possibility, we're hopeful, not stupid. Thanks for trying to be "the voice of reason" but I'd sooner roll with what we have than the known busts you talked about bringing in.
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HyponGrey


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilr0y wrote:
gizmo2012 wrote:
We got beat in the 2nd round by the NFC Champions, we're terrible.


Oh c'mon I didn't say that. We beat a joke of a Vikings team and got destroyed by San Fran. If you're calling that a deep run I differ with your definition of deep run. We were still a good team. It's just hard to be the fan of a team that NEVER makes upgrades through free agency. I don't know what you're all watching, but I would take Jamaal Brown over either of our starting tackles in a heartbeat.
That joke of a Vikings team beat SF, and also beat us to make it to the playoffs. Because making the playoffs and even the quarter finals is easy. You sound like a spoiled brat.
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McThreadski


Joined: 11 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HyponGrey wrote:
Kilr0y wrote:
gizmo2012 wrote:
We got beat in the 2nd round by the NFC Champions, we're terrible.


Oh c'mon I didn't say that. We beat a joke of a Vikings team and got destroyed by San Fran. If you're calling that a deep run I differ with your definition of deep run. We were still a good team. It's just hard to be the fan of a team that NEVER makes upgrades through free agency. I don't know what you're all watching, but I would take Jamaal Brown over either of our starting tackles in a heartbeat.
That joke of a Vikings team beat SF, and also beat us to make it to the playoffs. Because making the playoffs and even the quarter finals is easy. You sound like a spoiled brat.


They didn't have Diamond Joe Webb playing QB when they beat the 49'ers and us. That play-off game against us was kind of a joke.

I think Kilr0y makes some good points. It seems like everyone is assuming that everybody comes back and are just as good as they were, or improves drastically over what they were and everyone else stays healthy and continues to improve. I wouldn't mind keeping our options open at this point. If an upgrade comes along, I would think about it if I were TT.
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wgbeethree


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serious questions........
With all of the slack the OL takes when was the last time you would blame a loss on them?

The Seattle game? They were abysmal the first half but there may have been some other extenuating circumstances. Certainly not the last three playoff loses.

For as many sacks as AR12 takes when was the last time he got absolutely drilled?

The conclusion vs. Washington in '10? I honestly don't remember him getting hit clean enough recently that I worried for his health.
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