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How The Pistol Offense Gave GB a Great Draft Class
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daintrain28


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: How The Pistol Offense Gave GB a Great Draft Class Reply with quote

Hey guys, I know I haven't posted in awhile. I looked for a similar topic, but didn't see anything, I apologize if someone else has already posted something like this.

I had a discussion and I thought since there are so many posters whose opinion I value I would ask your thoughts?

If you look at the 2013 NFL draft, never before have I seen the draft "experts" so, so wrong. Many are now crediting the pistol offense for that. As teams now are looking for very specific players to fit this scheme, players that maybe didn't have the highest draft stock, but fit the system were overvalued. The prime example of this is EJ Manuel, a QB who NO ONE thought was a 1st round pick, and few thought was a 2nd.

At the same time, players who a year ago would have gone in the 1st and 2nd rounds fell like a rock in the ocean. The prime example of this is Matt Barclay.

The team that perhaps gained the most from this was the Green Bay Packers. Ted Thompson didn't trade up, in fact he sometimes traded back to garner more picks and gobbled up high picks who were free falling.

With Datone Jones, Eddie Lacy, David Bakhtiari, Johnathan Franklin, and Micah Hyde, the Packers essentially netted two 1st round picks, and three 2nd round picks. All players but Franklin appear to be hits. You give TT that many talented players he's gonna make you pay.

I think its ironic that a system we will never use may end up being the best thing that happens to us.
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HyponGrey


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barkley fell because his production fell, and he was exposed. I'd like a few more examples of these R/O fit guys who went t high who weren't QB's. If non R/O QB's were devalued, doesn't that imply that the value of other players would go up, especially ones like Jones who we drafted because he fit a R/O defense, or Johnathan Franklin who would probably thrive in a R/O situation.
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Kal-El


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EJ Manuel may be athletic, but he's primarily a pocket passer. He was not drafted to be a dual-threat ala Kaep or RGIII, IMO.


Pistol O clearly was a factor in our draft strategy but I think it merely reaffirmed our existing need for a tougher defense.
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AlexGreen#20


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're stretching here.

Lacy was a second rounder due to injury concerns and question marks about his vision due to the line he played behind.

Bakhtiari played on a horrendous Colorado team and is at least a year away from being a passable run blocker on the NFL level if he ever becomes one.

Franklin is small and slow.

Hyde doesn't have the wheels which limits his ceiling substantially and he also had some off the field concerns. He's the epitome of the good football role player that is a value pick, but he's not a guy that's getting drafted early in any draft.
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Ketchup


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
I think you're stretching here.

Lacy was a second rounder due to injury concerns and question marks about his vision due to the line he played behind.

Bakhtiari played on a horrendous Colorado team and is at least a year away from being a passable run blocker on the NFL level if he ever becomes one.

Franklin is small and slow.

Hyde doesn't have the wheels which limits his ceiling substantially and he also had some off the field concerns. He's the epitome of the good football role player that is a value pick, but he's not a guy that's getting drafted early in any draft.
4.46 is slow?? He's not CJ2K fast but he's darn sure not slow.
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chucknorris101


Joined: 20 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
I think you're stretching here.

Lacy was a second rounder due to injury concerns and question marks about his vision due to the line he played behind.

Bakhtiari played on a horrendous Colorado team and is at least a year away from being a passable run blocker on the NFL level if he ever becomes one.

Franklin is small and slow.

Hyde doesn't have the wheels which limits his ceiling substantially and he also had some off the field concerns. He's the epitome of the good football role player that is a value pick, but he's not a guy that's getting drafted early in any draft.
4.46 is slow?? He's not CJ2K fast but he's darn sure not slow.


Remember who you're quoting Laughing
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HyponGrey


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal-El wrote:
EJ Manuel may be athletic, but he's primarily a pocket passer. He was not drafted to be a dual-threat ala Kaep or RGIII, IMO.


Pistol O clearly was a factor in our draft strategy but I think it merely reaffirmed our existing need for a tougher defense.
EJ is anything but accurate. He was drafted for his legs, make no mistake. Whether or not he's penciled as a ption QB or a scrambler is a different story.
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DavidatMIZZOU


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this was just a very even class. When you can argue that Eddie Lacy could be a first, but also argue that Ball or Bell were better and neither were first rounders either, you have a deep class. I too would like some more examples of the pistol changing boards. As has been pointed out, our early contributors all have some kind of flaw; as of now that flaw looks either to be overcome, overblown or not yet taken advantage of.
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Pugger


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if these RBs like Ball, Bell and Lacy were playing a generation ago they might be first rounders. RBs are just not valued as highly in today's pass happy league like they once were.
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AlexGreen#20


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
I think you're stretching here.

Lacy was a second rounder due to injury concerns and question marks about his vision due to the line he played behind.

Bakhtiari played on a horrendous Colorado team and is at least a year away from being a passable run blocker on the NFL level if he ever becomes one.

Franklin is small and slow.

Hyde doesn't have the wheels which limits his ceiling substantially and he also had some off the field concerns. He's the epitome of the good football role player that is a value pick, but he's not a guy that's getting drafted early in any draft.
4.46 is slow?? He's not CJ2K fast but he's darn sure not slow.


Fair enough, slow isn't the right word. He's not a blazer which is what you're looking for when you draft a RB that size.
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DavidatMIZZOU


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pugger wrote:
I wonder if these RBs like Ball, Bell and Lacy were playing a generation ago they might be first rounders. RBs are just not valued as highly in today's pass happy league like they once were.


I'm not sure. I think it is a factor. But Trent Richardson was a top 5 pick just a year prior. I think that they were not quite as good as a RB taken that early and similar ability wise to each other so teams waited. Why pick Ball at 30 when Bell and Lacy are still on the board and possibly there for a trade up at 40?
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Dunderhead


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look, I think this thread is fascinating, but... I don't know how the Pistol or R/O changes things much in the draft rooms sans the Qb position. Considering only 11 Qbs were taken, seven in rounds 1-4 and of that 4 came off the boards in round 4... I don't know if anyone could really claim those QBs in round 4 were exclusive Pistol guys or R/O prospects.

The other thing, and it's quite a huge deal, the idea of an offense going to these Pistol offenses and R/Os is that the talent is on the cheap. That's why the 3-4 is in vogue. It's hard to get a QB like Rodgers, Mannings, Brady... But this is a cheap way to man the position it seems with abundant talent even though it might lead to injury. But because it's much simpler, it's easier to get the back-ups ready.

If you turn the Qb position into a easy to replace position teams don't have to spend as high a draft pick and when contracts come up the team should be able to retain the Qb cheaper or just replace him. This allows a team to spend on offensive and defensive lines where bang for your buck goes a lot farther.

So if anything, the reverse would be true of what you're saying. I guess I just don't see either playing out... Yet.
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Stevein2012


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if I'd say no one thought EJ was a 1st rounder, obviously the Bills did. Also for the fact that he's really looked like the best rookie QB so far I wouldn't bet that other teams didn't think very highly of him.
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spilltray


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: How The Pistol Offense Gave GB a Great Draft Class Reply with quote

daintrain28 wrote:
Hey guys, I know I haven't posted in awhile. I looked for a similar topic, but didn't see anything, I apologize if someone else has already posted something like this.

I had a discussion and I thought since there are so many posters whose opinion I value I would ask your thoughts?

If you look at the 2013 NFL draft, never before have I seen the draft "experts" so, so wrong. Many are now crediting the pistol offense for that. As teams now are looking for very specific players to fit this scheme, players that maybe didn't have the highest draft stock, but fit the system were overvalued. The prime example of this is EJ Manuel, a QB who NO ONE thought was a 1st round pick, and few thought was a 2nd.

At the same time, players who a year ago would have gone in the 1st and 2nd rounds fell like a rock in the ocean. The prime example of this is Matt Barclay.

The team that perhaps gained the most from this was the Green Bay Packers. Ted Thompson didn't trade up, in fact he sometimes traded back to garner more picks and gobbled up high picks who were free falling.

With Datone Jones, Eddie Lacy, David Bakhtiari, Johnathan Franklin, and Micah Hyde, the Packers essentially netted two 1st round picks, and three 2nd round picks. All players but Franklin appear to be hits. You give TT that many talented players he's gonna make you pay.

I think its ironic that a system we will never use may end up being the best thing that happens to us.


I see why you'd think that, but I don't think the Pistol or R/O offenses had much of anything to do with these players rising or falling. The media just needs a "blame" for why their predictions are so far off reality. There is usually some excuse.

QBs with "athleticism and upside" are becoming huge reaches more and more often. Look at guys like Blaine Gabbert and Ryan Tannehill. You could say the exact same things about them as Manuel.

As far as players droping, "power RBs" like Lacy who don't seem to offer much in the passing game have been falling for a while now. Richardson is an abberation. He had elite physical attributes. Lacy was solid all around as a prospect, but had none of that "elite" you need for a 1st round RB. I don't think guys like Bakhtiari and Hyde fell all that much from where they should go. Franklin maybe a round or so, but it's not like he was a 100% slam dunk pick either. Some people are questioning him as a top 3 RB on this team. (I think they are wrong, but just saying, it's not out of the realm of discussion).
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squire12


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets see how the R/O and Pistol offenses function without the OL that SF has. With that OL, they can play any style running game and be pretty dominant as in the 2011 season with Alex SMith at QB. 13-3 and NFC championship game with poor ST play preventing them from getting to the Super Bowl.
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