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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:

+1

This QB class is full of athletes masquerading as QBs, tantalizing athleticism but wanting accuracy. Provided he declares I would use a mid-round pick on Wyoming's Brett Smith. Right now Hackenberg is the prospect I'm high on long term.


I think some are better QBs than athletes but that's just me. More importantly, I'm all about value more than anything. I wouldn't be opposed to letting Wilson or McGloin get a shot before anything is determined w/ our QB situation as I've stated many times. I just worry we'd miss something for nothing. I would prefer they get that chance prior to the year ending so we can see what it looks like. I am completely on board w/ Hackenberg though as I said in another thread. He's going to be very good. I'll be getting a very good look at him this weekend against OSU.


so im going to assume the difference in your opinion from last year and this year is you thought palmer was going to be a reliable qb for us for a while. Dont really understand wanting to see mcgloin or wilson if all you care about is wins. Pryor gives us the best chance to win. Thats the only person you should want to play at this point. This is all based on things you have said during the debates.


B/c Palmer was an is the best option for QB for this team. How do you know Pryor is the best chance for victories?
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I'll give him more slack than Jtagg, but he does have a point: Pryor is in his 3rd year; he should be further ahead in that department.


He didn't go through a full TC his rookie year. He was the 3rd string QB until the last game of the 2012 season. He wasn't even the designated backup coming into TC this year. That's where all this 3 year thing just doesn't make sense. The Raiders haven't invested much time into developing this player until 2 months ago. It usually takes a couple years for the game to slow down for young QBs. Pryor is going through the same issues but he won't be given as much time because he's just a 3rd round pick by the former regime. For now, he's the ticket to buy Dennis Allen one more year.


OK so Pryor just sat on a stool in the corner and never did anything those couple years?? I don't get what you're saying. He was practicing, he was w/ teammates, he was in meetings, he was doing all sorts of things to help him better himself as a QB..... unless he really was just sitting on a stool in the corner of the room then I guess you have a point.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I'll give him more slack than Jtagg, but he does have a point: Pryor is in his 3rd year; he should be further ahead in that department.


He didn't go through a full TC his rookie year. He was the 3rd string QB until the last game of the 2012 season. He wasn't even the designated backup coming into TC this year. That's where all this 3 year thing just doesn't make sense. The Raiders haven't invested much time into developing this player until 2 months ago. It usually takes a couple years for the game to slow down for young QBs. Pryor is going through the same issues but he won't be given as much time because he's just a 3rd round pick by the former regime. For now, he's the ticket to buy Dennis Allen one more year.


OK so Pryor just sat on a stool in the corner and never did anything those couple years?? I don't get what you're saying. He was practicing, he was w/ teammates, he was in meetings, he was doing all sorts of things to help him better himself as a QB..... unless he really was just sitting on a stool in the corner of the room then I guess you have a point.


How many reps do you think the 3rd string QB is getting during the regular season? How much attention is the coaching staff gonna give to a QB they have no plan for? Pryor wasn't supposed to become the starter. Al Davis probably envisioned that but he died soon after.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:

No, he isn't the ticket to Allen's 3rd year. The defense playing a lot better and our players really buying into the system is his ticket. Pryor being able to move the ball better certainly increases his chances at coming back but even still, I have a hard time imagining him getting fired with our team playing ball so inspired. Unless the team looked basically listless like the Jags or Bucs, I'm pretty sure he was safe. Now, if he does get canned at the end of the season then you can come find me with egg on my face and tell me to eat crow and I will.

As for the other part of your post: So you're basically saying we completely neglected him and made him sit in the corner for the better part of 2 years? No. He got reps in practice and watched and learned behind the starter just like other backups and developmental QBs do. I agree he isn't a typical 3rd year QB, but his reads are still pretty slow. Even some rookies do it faster. That was never his forte, but I would have expected him to be further along right now is all I'm saying. Well that, and that I (as should every Raider fan) expect him to continue to get better with that skill.


The ticket to Allen's 3rd year is winning games. That's why Pryor got his shot.

And what i'm saying is Pryor hasn't been groomed to take over since he was drafted. He was just a guy sitting at the bottom of the roster, there was no plan for him to become a key piece of this team. There was no investment in his development.


So because he wasn't expected to be a starter absolves him of getting better? Regardless of initial expectations, he IS our starter. I'm not saying he should be a HOF QB already, but at the same time I expect a little more from a QB in terms of making reads. Specifically since he's been playing QB for so long.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I'll give him more slack than Jtagg, but he does have a point: Pryor is in his 3rd year; he should be further ahead in that department.


He didn't go through a full TC his rookie year. He was the 3rd string QB until the last game of the 2012 season. He wasn't even the designated backup coming into TC this year. That's where all this 3 year thing just doesn't make sense. The Raiders haven't invested much time into developing this player until 2 months ago. It usually takes a couple years for the game to slow down for young QBs. Pryor is going through the same issues but he won't be given as much time because he's just a 3rd round pick by the former regime. For now, he's the ticket to buy Dennis Allen one more year.


OK so Pryor just sat on a stool in the corner and never did anything those couple years?? I don't get what you're saying. He was practicing, he was w/ teammates, he was in meetings, he was doing all sorts of things to help him better himself as a QB..... unless he really was just sitting on a stool in the corner of the room then I guess you have a point.


How many reps do you think the 3rd string QB is getting during the regular season? How much attention is the coaching staff gonna give to a QB they have no plan for? Pryor wasn't supposed to become the starter. Al Davis probably envisioned that but he died soon after.


I would expect they get some. I mean, these guys get paid a lot of money for being on a roster. They have some sort of work they have to accomplish, correct? They still have workout obligations, practice obligations, and many others, correct? They're working to get that starting spot. I can't envision he just sat around and did nothing. Whether he was expected to be the starter or not, we've learned his determination wasn't going to limit him to just sitting there. He was working to get better in all aspects of the game on and off the field. This is his third year no matter how you slice it.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
There was no investment in his development.

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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Specifically since he's been playing QB for so long.


This is also a thing I've been saying for a long time. It's not like it's his first year playing QB. He's done this for quite a long time and it should be common sense to not do certain things. Hell, I never played QB when I played but, again, common sense says "don't do this" and he likes to do some of those things.

So many excuses.....
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So much stupidity.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
There was no investment in his development.


I don't think companies pay people 405k to sit and do absolutely nothing w/ them. You might and you have all the power in the world to think that way. I don't agree though. Now he might not have been getting as much work as the top guys and rightfully so but he was getting work
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
So much stupidity.


Yeah, paying people almost half a million dollars to sit in the back row and just keep them around b/c while not continuing their development as a player on their roster is pretty frigging stupid. I don't see how that's not the dumbest notion ever. Glad you agree.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I'm apparently sooooo stupid for suggesting players on the 53 man roster don't get to practice or develop at all, please do me a favor, since you seem to know precisely what goes on, and point me to a valid source that shows me exactly what a 3rd string QB does over the course of the year.

I want to be proven wrong. Please do it. Seriously.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
There was no investment in his development.


A player shouldn't be trying to better himself? EVERY player in the NFL should be trying to better himself as a football player. Playing football is a privilege and not a right. If you don't keep trying to get better, you'll get replaced (in most cases). Since he hasn't been replaced, he's gotten better. He's just not at the level I thought he would be yet and we need him to keep improving. I don't know what you're trying to argue here. He's reading defenses at a low level and has been in the NFL long enough to where it's presumable that he'd be further ahead. That's it. You can't just go to practice and sit in the film room and learn nothing regardless of the amount of investment in you.
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RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I'll give him more slack than Jtagg, but he does have a point: Pryor is in his 3rd year; he should be further ahead in that department.


He didn't go through a full TC his rookie year. He was the 3rd string QB until the last game of the 2012 season. He wasn't even the designated backup coming into TC this year. That's where all this 3 year thing just doesn't make sense. The Raiders haven't invested much time into developing this player until 2 months ago. It usually takes a couple years for the game to slow down for young QBs. Pryor is going through the same issues but he won't be given as much time because he's just a 3rd round pick by the former regime. For now, he's the ticket to buy Dennis Allen one more year.


OK so Pryor just sat on a stool in the corner and never did anything those couple years?? I don't get what you're saying. He was practicing, he was w/ teammates, he was in meetings, he was doing all sorts of things to help him better himself as a QB..... unless he really was just sitting on a stool in the corner of the room then I guess you have a point.


TBF his "rookie" year was a complete wash. Guy never dressed and was there to work on mechanics, working under center, etc. No preseason action either. Missed a good amount of football time before he was in the supplemental draft.

His 2nd year should have been his actual rookie year. Saw one useless snap before he started the final game of the season. 3rd string all season until Palmer went down.

Its technically his 3rd year, but really his 2nd .It's a due or die time situation for him regardless given the crop of young QBs coming in the draft. He has the rest of the season to show the staff that he can be built around.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I'll give him more slack than Jtagg, but he does have a point: Pryor is in his 3rd year; he should be further ahead in that department.


He didn't go through a full TC his rookie year. He was the 3rd string QB until the last game of the 2012 season. He wasn't even the designated backup coming into TC this year. That's where all this 3 year thing just doesn't make sense. The Raiders haven't invested much time into developing this player until 2 months ago. It usually takes a couple years for the game to slow down for young QBs. Pryor is going through the same issues but he won't be given as much time because he's just a 3rd round pick by the former regime. For now, he's the ticket to buy Dennis Allen one more year.


OK so Pryor just sat on a stool in the corner and never did anything those couple years?? I don't get what you're saying. He was practicing, he was w/ teammates, he was in meetings, he was doing all sorts of things to help him better himself as a QB..... unless he really was just sitting on a stool in the corner of the room then I guess you have a point.


TBF his "rookie" year was a complete wash. Guy never dressed and was there to work on mechanics, working under center, etc. No preseason action either. Missed a good amount of football time before he was in the supplemental draft.

His 2nd year should have been his actual rookie year. Saw one useless snap before he started the final game of the season. 3rd string all season until Palmer went down.

Its technically his 3rd year, but really his 2nd .It's a due or die time situation for him regardless given the crop of young QBs coming in the draft. He has the rest of the season to show the staff that he can be built around.
thank you. Dam I see why posters don't post anymore. Are we really debating tp's 3 yrs? He wasn't even active for games until late last season. Sheesh
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NCOUGHMAN


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
no not due to pryor. Due to all three, combined with where I think we will be drafting combined with oline dline and linebacker needs. Probably still need a rb. If a guy you think is a franchise guy for real not a projevt, falls in your lap you take him. But just swinging in 3rd or 4th round hoping for the best is no good. If we drafting 6-8 what qb wouldnt be a reach right now. I like carr I like Hundley to. But im not sure on them and I dont want to reach if nix or a certified guard is sitting there.


Ahhh, I gotchu. I'm kind of the same way but if a QB is the best value by far on the board, then I'd take him.

oakdb36 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I'll give him more slack than Jtagg, but he does have a point: Pryor is in his 3rd year; he should be further ahead in that department.


He didn't go through a full TC his rookie year. He was the 3rd string QB until the last game of the 2012 season. He wasn't even the designated backup coming into TC this year. That's where all this 3 year thing just doesn't make sense. The Raiders haven't invested much time into developing this player until 2 months ago. It usually takes a couple years for the game to slow down for young QBs. Pryor is going through the same issues but he won't be given as much time because he's just a 3rd round pick by the former regime. For now, he's the ticket to buy Dennis Allen one more year.


No, he isn't the ticket to Allen's 3rd year. The defense playing a lot better and our players really buying into the system is his ticket. Pryor being able to move the ball better certainly increases his chances at coming back but even still, I have a hard time imagining him getting fired with our team playing ball so inspired. Unless the team looked basically listless like the Jags or Bucs, I'm pretty sure he was safe. Now, if he does get canned at the end of the season then you can come find me with egg on my face and tell me to eat crow and I will.

As for the other part of your post: So you're basically saying we completely neglected him and made him sit in the corner for the better part of 2 years? No. He got reps in practice and watched and learned behind the starter just like other backups and developmental QBs do. I agree he isn't a typical 3rd year QB, but his reads are still pretty slow. Even some rookies do it faster. That was never his forte, but I would have expected him to be further along right now is all I'm saying. Well that, and that I (as should every Raider fan) expect him to continue to get better with that skill.
how do you expect a qb to get his read game better without playing time and practice snaps?
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