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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
yes we should.


Curious: Due to Pryor? Or due to having Pryor plus McGroin and Wilson in addition to him? If we get good value on a QB like Derek Carr in the draft, I wouldn't be mad if we took one.
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Stix101


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Stix101 wrote:
Django wrote:
Quote:
After nine sacks against Kansas City, Terrelle Pryor should have spent the bye working on his release time. No QB has held onto the ball longer on average this season.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings/_/year/2013/week/8

Pryor is known for buying time with his legs, 3/4 of the NFL QBs cant do this. Our Oline obviously sends him running for his life inflating this stat. We run more roll outs then most of the league, again inflating this stat. If Pryor had a poor QB rating, then it would make more sense. Another cheap shot from ESPN if you ask me.


Not really. He's slow in his reads even when he has time and a pocket. Yes, his backyard football Ben Roethlisberger antics do skew the stats but let's not sit here and pretend that is the only reason. Commentators have been noting him being slow with his reads every game. It doesn't affect the outcome of the play super often, but it does sometimes. I'll give him more slack than Jtagg, but he does have a point: Pryor is in his 3rd year; he should be further ahead in that department. At the same time I realize he was raw and this is his first year starting, which is why I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. But the bottom line is: if he wants to be a long term starter, that is a skill he needs to continue to progress with. I think we can all agree on that one.

I'm by no means saying he doesnt need to work on this, but its not the reason we are 2-4 and 28th on ESPNs rankings. We all know Pryor's best plays are when he scrambles for 45 secs and finds a WR all alone. Pryor doesnt play like a typical QB, so why do people grade him like one? Im sure Russell Wilson is at the bottom of that list, but does anyone care? And dont get me started on Bridgewater, he's the same way


Last edited by Stix101 on Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stix101 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Stix101 wrote:
Django wrote:
Quote:
After nine sacks against Kansas City, Terrelle Pryor should have spent the bye working on his release time. No QB has held onto the ball longer on average this season.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings/_/year/2013/week/8

Pryor is known for buying time with his legs, 3/4 of the NFL QBs cant do this. Our Oline obviously sends him running for his life inflating this stat. We run more roll outs then most of the league, again inflating this stat. If Pryor had a poor QB rating, then it would make more sense. Another cheap shot from ESPN if you ask me.


Not really. He's slow in his reads even when he has time and a pocket. Yes, his backyard football Ben Roethlisberger antics do skew the stats but let's not sit here and pretend that is the only reason. Commentators have been noting him being slow with his reads every game. It doesn't affect the outcome of the play super often, but it does sometimes. I'll give him more slack than Jtagg, but he does have a point: Pryor is in his 3rd year; he should be further ahead in that department. At the same time I realize he was raw and this is his first year starting, which is why I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. But the bottom line is: if he wants to be a long term starter, that is a skill he needs to continue to progress with. I think we can all agree on that one.

I'm by no means saying he doesnt need to work on this, but its not the reason we are 2-4 and 28th on ESPNs rankings. We all know Pryor's best plays are when he scrambles for 45 secs and finds a WR all alone. Pryor doesnt play like a typical QB, so why do people grade him like one?


Maybe because he said that's what he's trying to be? He's not working on being a scrambler, he's working on being a passing QB. Straight from the horse's mouth.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
CrapTakula wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Django wrote:
Quote:
After nine sacks against Kansas City, Terrelle Pryor should have spent the bye working on his release time. No QB has held onto the ball longer on average this season.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings/_/year/2013/week/8


Well, holding onto the ball that long isn't the line's fault haha. I remember someone here wanted Pryor to hold onto the ball longer also. Can't remember who though.

This is what was needed. Guess we'll see what happens against a defense that's surely looking to take advantage of his weaknesses.


That's obviously an area of concern, but correct me if I'm wrong. Don't most young QBs have the problem of progressing through their reads too slowly?


Sure do. This is year three. How many years do we wait for him to get it?


Ten, just like Palmer.

Just kidding, honestly if he's having the same problem next year arpund this time he gets Das Boot.


Do you feel we should pass over QB prospects this off-season?


yes we should.


You want to pass on potentially the deepest QB class of the century for a question mark? Ouch.....


Just because it's deep, doesn't mean it's good.

There isn't a top flight can't miss 1st round prospect among this class. You might catch lightning in a bottle w/ one but this class is fairly watered down.

I'd wait a year and go all in on Hogan personally. In this class, Carr is the one name that intrigues me.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
CrapTakula wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Django wrote:
Quote:
After nine sacks against Kansas City, Terrelle Pryor should have spent the bye working on his release time. No QB has held onto the ball longer on average this season.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings/_/year/2013/week/8


Well, holding onto the ball that long isn't the line's fault haha. I remember someone here wanted Pryor to hold onto the ball longer also. Can't remember who though.

This is what was needed. Guess we'll see what happens against a defense that's surely looking to take advantage of his weaknesses.


That's obviously an area of concern, but correct me if I'm wrong. Don't most young QBs have the problem of progressing through their reads too slowly?


Sure do. This is year three. How many years do we wait for him to get it?


Ten, just like Palmer.

Just kidding, honestly if he's having the same problem next year arpund this time he gets Das Boot.


Do you feel we should pass over QB prospects this off-season?


yes we should.


You want to pass on potentially the deepest QB class of the century for a question mark? Ouch.....


Just because it's deep, doesn't mean it's good.

There isn't a top flight can't miss 1st round prospect among this class. You might catch lightning in a bottle w/ one but this class is fairly watered down.

I'd wait a year and go all in on Hogan personally. In this class, Carr is the one name that intrigues me.


There's plenty of people in this draft that are legit first round talents not like other classes where people were drafted in the first round purely by default b/c the class was so weak (this past year). There are probably 6 better prospects than Manuel or anyone out of this past year's class in the upcoming one. Maybe even more. No one is a Luck, but there's plenty of good talent.
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Stix101


Joined: 31 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Stix101 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Stix101 wrote:
Django wrote:
Quote:
After nine sacks against Kansas City, Terrelle Pryor should have spent the bye working on his release time. No QB has held onto the ball longer on average this season.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings/_/year/2013/week/8

Pryor is known for buying time with his legs, 3/4 of the NFL QBs cant do this. Our Oline obviously sends him running for his life inflating this stat. We run more roll outs then most of the league, again inflating this stat. If Pryor had a poor QB rating, then it would make more sense. Another cheap shot from ESPN if you ask me.


Not really. He's slow in his reads even when he has time and a pocket. Yes, his backyard football Ben Roethlisberger antics do skew the stats but let's not sit here and pretend that is the only reason. Commentators have been noting him being slow with his reads every game. It doesn't affect the outcome of the play super often, but it does sometimes. I'll give him more slack than Jtagg, but he does have a point: Pryor is in his 3rd year; he should be further ahead in that department. At the same time I realize he was raw and this is his first year starting, which is why I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. But the bottom line is: if he wants to be a long term starter, that is a skill he needs to continue to progress with. I think we can all agree on that one.

I'm by no means saying he doesnt need to work on this, but its not the reason we are 2-4 and 28th on ESPNs rankings. We all know Pryor's best plays are when he scrambles for 45 secs and finds a WR all alone. Pryor doesnt play like a typical QB, so why do people grade him like one?


Maybe because he said that's what he's trying to be? He's not working on being a scrambler, he's working on being a passing QB. Straight from the horse's mouth.

Pryor has never said he wants to be a pocket QB. Yes, he works on his throwing, reads, footwork just like everyone else. He'd prefer to pass for the 1st down then run. But he never said he wants to be a pure drop back QB
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NCOUGHMAN


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need to pick up a fa center that way if wiz goes down again we won't havta move breezell over
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dante9876


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
yes we should.


Curious: Due to Pryor? Or due to having Pryor plus McGroin and Wilson in addition to him? If we get good value on a QB like Derek Carr in the draft, I wouldn't be mad if we took one.


no not due to pryor. Due to all three, combined with where I think we will be drafting combined with oline dline and linebacker needs. Probably still need a rb. If a guy you think is a franchise guy for real not a projevt, falls in your lap you take him. But just swinging in 3rd or 4th round hoping for the best is no good. If we drafting 6-8 what qb wouldnt be a reach right now. I like carr I like Hundley to. But im not sure on them and I dont want to reach if nix or a certified guard is sitting there.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
CrapTakula wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Django wrote:
Quote:
After nine sacks against Kansas City, Terrelle Pryor should have spent the bye working on his release time. No QB has held onto the ball longer on average this season.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings/_/year/2013/week/8


Well, holding onto the ball that long isn't the line's fault haha. I remember someone here wanted Pryor to hold onto the ball longer also. Can't remember who though.

This is what was needed. Guess we'll see what happens against a defense that's surely looking to take advantage of his weaknesses.


That's obviously an area of concern, but correct me if I'm wrong. Don't most young QBs have the problem of progressing through their reads too slowly?


Sure do. This is year three. How many years do we wait for him to get it?


Ten, just like Palmer.

Just kidding, honestly if he's having the same problem next year arpund this time he gets Das Boot.


Do you feel we should pass over QB prospects this off-season?


yes we should.


You want to pass on potentially the deepest QB class of the century for a question mark? Ouch.....


Just because it's deep, doesn't mean it's good.

There isn't a top flight can't miss 1st round prospect among this class. You might catch lightning in a bottle w/ one but this class is fairly watered down.

I'd wait a year and go all in on Hogan personally. In this class, Carr is the one name that intrigues me.


+1

This QB class is full of athletes masquerading as QBs, tantalizing athleticism but wanting accuracy. Provided he declares I would use a mid-round pick on Wyoming's Brett Smith. Right now Hackenberg is the prospect I'm high on long term.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:

+1

This QB class is full of athletes masquerading as QBs, tantalizing athleticism but wanting accuracy. Provided he declares I would use a mid-round pick on Wyoming's Brett Smith. Right now Hackenberg is the prospect I'm high on long term.


I think some are better QBs than athletes but that's just me. More importantly, I'm all about value more than anything. I wouldn't be opposed to letting Wilson or McGloin get a shot before anything is determined w/ our QB situation as I've stated many times. I just worry we'd miss something for nothing. I would prefer they get that chance prior to the year ending so we can see what it looks like. I am completely on board w/ Hackenberg though as I said in another thread. He's going to be very good. I'll be getting a very good look at him this weekend against OSU.
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dante9876


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:

+1

This QB class is full of athletes masquerading as QBs, tantalizing athleticism but wanting accuracy. Provided he declares I would use a mid-round pick on Wyoming's Brett Smith. Right now Hackenberg is the prospect I'm high on long term.


I think some are better QBs than athletes but that's just me. More importantly, I'm all about value more than anything. I wouldn't be opposed to letting Wilson or McGloin get a shot before anything is determined w/ our QB situation as I've stated many times. I just worry we'd miss something for nothing. I would prefer they get that chance prior to the year ending so we can see what it looks like. I am completely on board w/ Hackenberg though as I said in another thread. He's going to be very good. I'll be getting a very good look at him this weekend against OSU.


so im going to assume the difference in your opinion from last year and this year is you thought palmer was going to be a reliable qb for us for a while. Dont really understand wanting to see mcgloin or wilson if all you care about is wins. Pryor gives us the best chance to win. Thats the only person you should want to play at this point. This is all based on things you have said during the debates.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
I'll give him more slack than Jtagg, but he does have a point: Pryor is in his 3rd year; he should be further ahead in that department.


He didn't go through a full TC his rookie year. He was the 3rd string QB until the last game of the 2012 season. He wasn't even the designated backup coming into TC this year. That's where all this 3 year thing just doesn't make sense. The Raiders haven't invested much time into developing this player until 2 months ago. It usually takes a couple years for the game to slow down for young QBs. Pryor is going through the same issues but he won't be given as much time because he's just a 3rd round pick by the former regime. For now, he's the ticket to buy Dennis Allen one more year.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stix101 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Stix101 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Stix101 wrote:
Django wrote:
Quote:
After nine sacks against Kansas City, Terrelle Pryor should have spent the bye working on his release time. No QB has held onto the ball longer on average this season.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/powerrankings/_/year/2013/week/8

Pryor is known for buying time with his legs, 3/4 of the NFL QBs cant do this. Our Oline obviously sends him running for his life inflating this stat. We run more roll outs then most of the league, again inflating this stat. If Pryor had a poor QB rating, then it would make more sense. Another cheap shot from ESPN if you ask me.


Not really. He's slow in his reads even when he has time and a pocket. Yes, his backyard football Ben Roethlisberger antics do skew the stats but let's not sit here and pretend that is the only reason. Commentators have been noting him being slow with his reads every game. It doesn't affect the outcome of the play super often, but it does sometimes. I'll give him more slack than Jtagg, but he does have a point: Pryor is in his 3rd year; he should be further ahead in that department. At the same time I realize he was raw and this is his first year starting, which is why I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. But the bottom line is: if he wants to be a long term starter, that is a skill he needs to continue to progress with. I think we can all agree on that one.

I'm by no means saying he doesnt need to work on this, but its not the reason we are 2-4 and 28th on ESPNs rankings. We all know Pryor's best plays are when he scrambles for 45 secs and finds a WR all alone. Pryor doesnt play like a typical QB, so why do people grade him like one?


Maybe because he said that's what he's trying to be? He's not working on being a scrambler, he's working on being a passing QB. Straight from the horse's mouth.

Pryor has never said he wants to be a pocket QB. Yes, he works on his throwing, reads, footwork just like everyone else. He'd prefer to pass for the 1st down then run. But he never said he wants to be a pure drop back QB


I never said he did. I said Passing QB. Passing QB ≠ Pocket QB. Aaron Rodgers is a Passing QB, but he isn't a Pocket QB with his mobility. Danger-Russ is a passing QB (when his OL and WRs allow him to be), but you wouldn't call him a Pocket QB, right?
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
no not due to pryor. Due to all three, combined with where I think we will be drafting combined with oline dline and linebacker needs. Probably still need a rb. If a guy you think is a franchise guy for real not a projevt, falls in your lap you take him. But just swinging in 3rd or 4th round hoping for the best is no good. If we drafting 6-8 what qb wouldnt be a reach right now. I like carr I like Hundley to. But im not sure on them and I dont want to reach if nix or a certified guard is sitting there.


Ahhh, I gotchu. I'm kind of the same way but if a QB is the best value by far on the board, then I'd take him.

oakdb36 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I'll give him more slack than Jtagg, but he does have a point: Pryor is in his 3rd year; he should be further ahead in that department.


He didn't go through a full TC his rookie year. He was the 3rd string QB until the last game of the 2012 season. He wasn't even the designated backup coming into TC this year. That's where all this 3 year thing just doesn't make sense. The Raiders haven't invested much time into developing this player until 2 months ago. It usually takes a couple years for the game to slow down for young QBs. Pryor is going through the same issues but he won't be given as much time because he's just a 3rd round pick by the former regime. For now, he's the ticket to buy Dennis Allen one more year.


No, he isn't the ticket to Allen's 3rd year. The defense playing a lot better and our players really buying into the system is his ticket. Pryor being able to move the ball better certainly increases his chances at coming back but even still, I have a hard time imagining him getting fired with our team playing ball so inspired. Unless the team looked basically listless like the Jags or Bucs, I'm pretty sure he was safe. Now, if he does get canned at the end of the season then you can come find me with egg on my face and tell me to eat crow and I will.

As for the other part of your post: So you're basically saying we completely neglected him and made him sit in the corner for the better part of 2 years? No. He got reps in practice and watched and learned behind the starter just like other backups and developmental QBs do. I agree he isn't a typical 3rd year QB, but his reads are still pretty slow. Even some rookies do it faster. That was never his forte, but I would have expected him to be further along right now is all I'm saying. Well that, and that I (as should every Raider fan) expect him to continue to get better with that skill.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:

No, he isn't the ticket to Allen's 3rd year. The defense playing a lot better and our players really buying into the system is his ticket. Pryor being able to move the ball better certainly increases his chances at coming back but even still, I have a hard time imagining him getting fired with our team playing ball so inspired. Unless the team looked basically listless like the Jags or Bucs, I'm pretty sure he was safe. Now, if he does get canned at the end of the season then you can come find me with egg on my face and tell me to eat crow and I will.

As for the other part of your post: So you're basically saying we completely neglected him and made him sit in the corner for the better part of 2 years? No. He got reps in practice and watched and learned behind the starter just like other backups and developmental QBs do. I agree he isn't a typical 3rd year QB, but his reads are still pretty slow. Even some rookies do it faster. That was never his forte, but I would have expected him to be further along right now is all I'm saying. Well that, and that I (as should every Raider fan) expect him to continue to get better with that skill.


The ticket to Allen's 3rd year is winning games. That's why Pryor got his shot.

And what i'm saying is Pryor hasn't been groomed to take over since he was drafted. He was just a guy sitting at the bottom of the roster, there was no plan for him to become a key piece of this team. There was no investment in his development.
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