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Why Jadeveon Clowney won't be the No. 1 NFL draft pick
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3622
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Why Jadeveon Clowney won't be the No. 1 NFL draft pick Reply with quote

A very good read about Teddy and the Raiders.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2013-08-16/oakland-raiders-nfl-draft-jadeveon-clowney-teddy-bridgewater-no-1
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah we need a QB, but a drafting a rookie QB is like having a baby. You have to be equipped for it, and we certainly are not. All of our receiving options are greatly unproven. Our offensive line is a joke. DMC is probably not gonna be back next year, and even if he is we can't count on him to stay healthy. I'm alright with Olson as an OC, but I'm not cool with having him be the one to develop a QB we're trying to make the face of our franchise.

Not only all of that, but right now Clowney is a better prospect as a DE than any QB is a QB. Until that changes, I'm not even considering a QB. That's the whipped cream on top of the sundae for me.

The cherry? That our pass rush is anemic.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Yeah we need a QB, but a drafting a rookie QB is like having a baby. You have to be equipped for it, and we certainly are not. All of our receiving options are greatly unproven. Our offensive line is a joke. DMC is probably not gonna be back next year, and even if he is we can't count on him to stay healthy. I'm alright with Olson as an OC, but I'm not cool with having him be the one to develop a QB we're trying to make the face of our franchise.

Not only all of that, but right now Clowney is a better prospect as a DE than any QB is a QB. Until that changes, I'm not even considering a QB. That's the whipped cream on top of the sundae for me.

The cherry? That our pass rush is anemic.


I guess you never heard of building around a QB.
If the Raiders have the first pick in the draft they will be in position to draft good O-linemen in the second round and third round plus they have money for FAs.
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Raiiiiidersssss


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've flip flopped 10 times on this issue already and I'll probably do it another 100 times. The good news is I don't think we could go wrong with either guy
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BlackPrestige92


Joined: 08 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, one can build around a QB if they're lucky. Or a team could end up like the Rams who have had Sam Bradford basically stuck, his growth has been stunned from playing on a team ill equipped.....

Sam Bradford was badazz in college & was really good in the combine. He was as good as Teddy. Bigger too. It's not like one can say "Baaaah, teddy is way better!"

Clowney is as good a prospect as a young man can be, he's there with the Bruce Smith's, Julius Peppers', Calvin Johnson's, etc.

You don't pass on those guys. He's the BPA no matter what.
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Spartica4Real


Joined: 26 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disclaimer: I'm just a Saints fan, what do I know about the Raiders huh? But I've always enjoyed the Raiders and am a lurker of your forums, and I figured I'd give my opinion on the matter.

The Raiders will be idiots to draft Teddy over Clowney. You do not take a QB over the once in the generation prospect unless the QB is parallel to someone like Luck as a prospect. Teddy is no Luck. All of this may not matter, as Teddy may have an amazing year better than Luck ever has had and Clowney may have a down year and do nothing special, then you go with Teddy, but this is based off of right now.

What's the point of drafting this good QB, if you have NOTHING around him? No disrespect Raiders fans, but you have the least talented team in the NFL easy. This is another reason you only draft the QB if he is one of those QBs who makes everyone better, and is an ELITE talent, such as Luck. And in my opinion Teddy is not that, yet.

Let's say the Raiders get the #1 pick (articles like these are dumb because there is no confirmation that the Raiders will even get the 1st pick), and they draft Teddy. How do you expect him to succeed in this situation? He will have no WRs, he will have no defense, he may have no RB (depends on DMC), etc and he is supposed to succeed? I don't think so.

Clowney on the other hand, will help. First of all, a talent like Clowney makes everyone on the D-line better, he is one of those players. You brought Flynn in for a reason. I think Reggie McKenzie is one of those level headed GMs, who knows what he has, I don't think Dennis Allen will be fired or anything like it, he knows this roster is REALLY devoid of talent, and he can't blame Allen for that. I think he is going to be a fair GM and give Dennis multiple years before he expects the team to be a contender. They're in a rebuilding phrase, Flynn is your stopgap. Flynn is young enough to come in here, be your QB for the next 2-4 years while you build a team.

You do not take Teddy during this period. You take the BPA, and it certainly helps that your pass rush is junk. So build this team for the next few years, take Clowney, keep Flynn as your QB, then in about 3 years, THEN you take a QB. Then you have a solid team. Then the Oakland Raiders become a good franchise again. Then Dennis Allen has talent to work with. (It also helps by that time Peyton should be retired and out of Denver Laughing )

That is my opinion on the matter, but what do I know? Wink
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NickButera


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since when has Reggie drafted for need? Him and the philosophy he grew up in, is draft the best. Always.
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thelawoffices


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If(when) we're picking first, it needs to be Clowney. He's just on a different level as a prospect than Teddy, and taking a QB when we having nothing else built up isn't going to work.

I'd love if we found a way to get Marcus Mariota, but I still think he stays at Oregon after this year.
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BlackPrestige92


Joined: 08 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartica4Real wrote:
Disclaimer: I'm just a Saints fan, what do I know about the Raiders huh? But I've always enjoyed the Raiders and am a lurker of your forums, and I figured I'd give my opinion on the matter.

The Raiders will be idiots to draft Teddy over Clowney. You do not take a QB over the once in the generation prospect unless the QB is parallel to someone like Luck as a prospect. Teddy is no Luck. All of this may not matter, as Teddy may have an amazing year better than Luck ever has had and Clowney may have a down year and do nothing special, then you go with Teddy, but this is based off of right now.

What's the point of drafting this good QB, if you have NOTHING around him? No disrespect Raiders fans, but you have the least talented team in the NFL easy. This is another reason you only draft the QB if he is one of those QBs who makes everyone better, and is an ELITE talent, such as Luck. And in my opinion Teddy is not that, yet.

Let's say the Raiders get the #1 pick (articles like these are dumb because there is no confirmation that the Raiders will even get the 1st pick), and they draft Teddy. How do you expect him to succeed in this situation? He will have no WRs, he will have no defense, he may have no RB (depends on DMC), etc and he is supposed to succeed? I don't think so.

Clowney on the other hand, will help. First of all, a talent like Clowney makes everyone on the D-line better, he is one of those players. You brought Flynn in for a reason. I think Reggie McKenzie is one of those level headed GMs, who knows what he has, I don't think Dennis Allen will be fired or anything like it, he knows this roster is REALLY devoid of talent, and he can't blame Allen for that. I think he is going to be a fair GM and give Dennis multiple years before he expects the team to be a contender. They're in a rebuilding phrase, Flynn is your stopgap. Flynn is young enough to come in here, be your QB for the next 2-4 years while you build a team.

You do not take Teddy during this period. You take the BPA, and it certainly helps that your pass rush is junk. So build this team for the next few years, take Clowney, keep Flynn as your QB, then in about 3 years, THEN you take a QB. Then you have a solid team. Then the Oakland Raiders become a good franchise again. Then Dennis Allen has talent to work with. (It also helps by that time Peyton should be retired and out of Denver Laughing )

That is my opinion on the matter, but what do I know? Wink

Yeah, you're right. No way does Clowney get passed up. The guy is going to be a boy at 21 entering the draft. He'll get bigger, faster, stronger, & overall better as he ages which is terrifying. The dude is 6'6 274! Recently his coach Steve Spurrier said the young man ran a 4.4! That's going to be a guy with some insane film AND insane combine numbers so you can't find a hole. He won't just be a workout warrior or just a guy on film....

He truly is as can't miss as guys like Bruce Smith, Calvin Johnson, & Julius Peppers.

Teddy will be good but is he can't miss? Is he a transcendent talent? Does he face the best competition & wreck em like Clowney?

It's an easy decision like you say. Clowney all day.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackPrestige92 wrote:
Spartica4Real wrote:
Disclaimer: I'm just a Saints fan, what do I know about the Raiders huh? But I've always enjoyed the Raiders and am a lurker of your forums, and I figured I'd give my opinion on the matter.

The Raiders will be idiots to draft Teddy over Clowney. You do not take a QB over the once in the generation prospect unless the QB is parallel to someone like Luck as a prospect. Teddy is no Luck. All of this may not matter, as Teddy may have an amazing year better than Luck ever has had and Clowney may have a down year and do nothing special, then you go with Teddy, but this is based off of right now.

What's the point of drafting this good QB, if you have NOTHING around him? No disrespect Raiders fans, but you have the least talented team in the NFL easy. This is another reason you only draft the QB if he is one of those QBs who makes everyone better, and is an ELITE talent, such as Luck. And in my opinion Teddy is not that, yet.

Let's say the Raiders get the #1 pick (articles like these are dumb because there is no confirmation that the Raiders will even get the 1st pick), and they draft Teddy. How do you expect him to succeed in this situation? He will have no WRs, he will have no defense, he may have no RB (depends on DMC), etc and he is supposed to succeed? I don't think so.

Clowney on the other hand, will help. First of all, a talent like Clowney makes everyone on the D-line better, he is one of those players. You brought Flynn in for a reason. I think Reggie McKenzie is one of those level headed GMs, who knows what he has, I don't think Dennis Allen will be fired or anything like it, he knows this roster is REALLY devoid of talent, and he can't blame Allen for that. I think he is going to be a fair GM and give Dennis multiple years before he expects the team to be a contender. They're in a rebuilding phrase, Flynn is your stopgap. Flynn is young enough to come in here, be your QB for the next 2-4 years while you build a team.

You do not take Teddy during this period. You take the BPA, and it certainly helps that your pass rush is junk. So build this team for the next few years, take Clowney, keep Flynn as your QB, then in about 3 years, THEN you take a QB. Then you have a solid team. Then the Oakland Raiders become a good franchise again. Then Dennis Allen has talent to work with. (It also helps by that time Peyton should be retired and out of Denver Laughing )

That is my opinion on the matter, but what do I know? Wink

Yeah, you're right. No way does Clowney get passed up. The guy is going to be a boy at 21 entering the draft. He'll get bigger, faster, stronger, & overall better as he ages which is terrifying. The dude is 6'6 274! Recently his coach Steve Spurrier said the young man ran a 4.4! That's going to be a guy with some insane film AND insane combine numbers so you can't find a hole. He won't just be a workout warrior or just a guy on film....

He truly is as can't miss as guys like Bruce Smith, Calvin Johnson, & Julius Peppers.

Teddy will be good but is he can't miss? Is he a transcendent talent? Does he face the best competition & wreck em like Clowney?

It's an easy decision like you say. Clowney all day.


You know Teddy is the same age.
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't pass on a "once in a generation" player for need, ever!
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Raiders 2014 Draft (check out my draft review tell me what you think)
Mancrush 2014: DE Clowney, WR Watkins, OT Robinson, LB Shazier, FS Brooks, TE ASJ, OG Jackson, WR Janis, OT Lucas, OT Tiny
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BlackPrestige92


Joined: 08 Nov 2011
Posts: 5804
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
BlackPrestige92 wrote:
Spartica4Real wrote:
Disclaimer: I'm just a Saints fan, what do I know about the Raiders huh? But I've always enjoyed the Raiders and am a lurker of your forums, and I figured I'd give my opinion on the matter.

The Raiders will be idiots to draft Teddy over Clowney. You do not take a QB over the once in the generation prospect unless the QB is parallel to someone like Luck as a prospect. Teddy is no Luck. All of this may not matter, as Teddy may have an amazing year better than Luck ever has had and Clowney may have a down year and do nothing special, then you go with Teddy, but this is based off of right now.

What's the point of drafting this good QB, if you have NOTHING around him? No disrespect Raiders fans, but you have the least talented team in the NFL easy. This is another reason you only draft the QB if he is one of those QBs who makes everyone better, and is an ELITE talent, such as Luck. And in my opinion Teddy is not that, yet.

Let's say the Raiders get the #1 pick (articles like these are dumb because there is no confirmation that the Raiders will even get the 1st pick), and they draft Teddy. How do you expect him to succeed in this situation? He will have no WRs, he will have no defense, he may have no RB (depends on DMC), etc and he is supposed to succeed? I don't think so.

Clowney on the other hand, will help. First of all, a talent like Clowney makes everyone on the D-line better, he is one of those players. You brought Flynn in for a reason. I think Reggie McKenzie is one of those level headed GMs, who knows what he has, I don't think Dennis Allen will be fired or anything like it, he knows this roster is REALLY devoid of talent, and he can't blame Allen for that. I think he is going to be a fair GM and give Dennis multiple years before he expects the team to be a contender. They're in a rebuilding phrase, Flynn is your stopgap. Flynn is young enough to come in here, be your QB for the next 2-4 years while you build a team.

You do not take Teddy during this period. You take the BPA, and it certainly helps that your pass rush is junk. So build this team for the next few years, take Clowney, keep Flynn as your QB, then in about 3 years, THEN you take a QB. Then you have a solid team. Then the Oakland Raiders become a good franchise again. Then Dennis Allen has talent to work with. (It also helps by that time Peyton should be retired and out of Denver Laughing )

That is my opinion on the matter, but what do I know? Wink

Yeah, you're right. No way does Clowney get passed up. The guy is going to be a boy at 21 entering the draft. He'll get bigger, faster, stronger, & overall better as he ages which is terrifying. The dude is 6'6 274! Recently his coach Steve Spurrier said the young man ran a 4.4! That's going to be a guy with some insane film AND insane combine numbers so you can't find a hole. He won't just be a workout warrior or just a guy on film....

He truly is as can't miss as guys like Bruce Smith, Calvin Johnson, & Julius Peppers.

Teddy will be good but is he can't miss? Is he a transcendent talent? Does he face the best competition & wreck em like Clowney?

It's an easy decision like you say. Clowney all day.


You know Teddy is the same age.

You missed the real point here, sir..........
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackPrestige92 wrote:
Spartica4Real wrote:
Disclaimer: I'm just a Saints fan, what do I know about the Raiders huh? But I've always enjoyed the Raiders and am a lurker of your forums, and I figured I'd give my opinion on the matter.

The Raiders will be idiots to draft Teddy over Clowney. You do not take a QB over the once in the generation prospect unless the QB is parallel to someone like Luck as a prospect. Teddy is no Luck. All of this may not matter, as Teddy may have an amazing year better than Luck ever has had and Clowney may have a down year and do nothing special, then you go with Teddy, but this is based off of right now.

What's the point of drafting this good QB, if you have NOTHING around him? No disrespect Raiders fans, but you have the least talented team in the NFL easy. This is another reason you only draft the QB if he is one of those QBs who makes everyone better, and is an ELITE talent, such as Luck. And in my opinion Teddy is not that, yet.

Let's say the Raiders get the #1 pick (articles like these are dumb because there is no confirmation that the Raiders will even get the 1st pick), and they draft Teddy. How do you expect him to succeed in this situation? He will have no WRs, he will have no defense, he may have no RB (depends on DMC), etc and he is supposed to succeed? I don't think so.

Clowney on the other hand, will help. First of all, a talent like Clowney makes everyone on the D-line better, he is one of those players. You brought Flynn in for a reason. I think Reggie McKenzie is one of those level headed GMs, who knows what he has, I don't think Dennis Allen will be fired or anything like it, he knows this roster is REALLY devoid of talent, and he can't blame Allen for that. I think he is going to be a fair GM and give Dennis multiple years before he expects the team to be a contender. They're in a rebuilding phrase, Flynn is your stopgap. Flynn is young enough to come in here, be your QB for the next 2-4 years while you build a team.

You do not take Teddy during this period. You take the BPA, and it certainly helps that your pass rush is junk. So build this team for the next few years, take Clowney, keep Flynn as your QB, then in about 3 years, THEN you take a QB. Then you have a solid team. Then the Oakland Raiders become a good franchise again. Then Dennis Allen has talent to work with. (It also helps by that time Peyton should be retired and out of Denver Laughing )

That is my opinion on the matter, but what do I know? Wink

Yeah, you're right. No way does Clowney get passed up. The guy is going to be a boy at 21 entering the draft. He'll get bigger, faster, stronger, & overall better as he ages which is terrifying. The dude is 6'6 274! Recently his coach Steve Spurrier said the young man ran a 4.4! That's going to be a guy with some insane film AND insane combine numbers so you can't find a hole. He won't just be a workout warrior or just a guy on film....

He truly is as can't miss as guys like Bruce Smith, Calvin Johnson, & Julius Peppers.

Teddy will be good but is he can't miss? Is he a transcendent talent? Does he face the best competition & wreck em like Clowney?

It's an easy decision like you say. Clowney all day.


You never heard of Courtney Brown

http://a.espncdn.com/nfl/s/profile/cbrown.html
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5491
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:

You never heard of Courtney Brown

http://a.espncdn.com/nfl/s/profile/cbrown.html


So . . .

You are trying to make a comparison between Clowney and Courtney when there wasn't even a consensus in Cleveland's war room let alone the NFL? I'm not sure if you're serious?
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Raiders 2014 Draft (check out my draft review tell me what you think)
Mancrush 2014: DE Clowney, WR Watkins, OT Robinson, LB Shazier, FS Brooks, TE ASJ, OG Jackson, WR Janis, OT Lucas, OT Tiny
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
bitty wrote:

You never heard of Courtney Brown

http://a.espncdn.com/nfl/s/profile/cbrown.html


So . . .

You are trying to make a comparison between Clowney and Courtney when there wasn't even a consensus in Cleveland's war room let alone the NFL? I'm not sure if you're serious?


Yeah that's not even close.
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