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Anonymous3


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:53 am    Post subject: an early offseason look Reply with quote

Have the easiest pre-finals week ever, and I was bored so threw this together for some fun and something to talk about. Tried to avoid messing with Andy Dalton in this, simply because I just don't see any other viable options without getting a little too crazy. Main focus is to bring attention to who our main targets of our own FAs should be, as well as an early look at some players in the draft. We're in a weird year FA-wise, with very few of our own players not under contract for next season. We either will make quite a few cuts, and be active players, or sit with who we have and focus on building through the draft, as opposed to patching some holes with veterans.

Re-Sign:
Andrew Hawkins, WR - Can be a vital part of our offense. I think he's our top slot WR over Sanu.

Mike Pollack, G - Has played well in Zeitler's absence and familiarity is always a nice advantage on the OL.

Michael Johnson, DE - Call me crazy, but I can see it happening. Obviously the primary concern should be extending Green, as we have a solid stable behind MJ with Gilberry, Geathers returning, and Hunt. However, I think if we can afford to (and with my cuts below it would be easy) we should make signing MJ93 our #2 priority. Locking up him, Dunlap, and Atkins would give us the nastiest three lineman locked up in the league. In today's league, having all these bodies at DE is nothing but a good thing.

Brandon Ghee, CB - Cheap player that is familiar with our system. At worst, great camp competition for a younger player.

Taylor Mays, SS/Rover - Was playing pretty well before his injury. I think given the fact the Bengals gave him a chance and he fits well in our scheme, he will probably return. Love to see what we can do with him.

Other Free Agents:

I don't think we'll be players for any FA's worth mentioning, so I would say use your imagination when looking at the final roster and pretend at least one random veteran was signed via FA and made our roster (most likely at WR, LB, or OL)

Cut:
BenJarvus Green-Ellis, RB - Would save us approximately 2.5 million dollars on our salary cap, which would free up some space for a run at MJ93

Robert Geathers, LE - Would save approximately 2.8 million against the salary cap, again freeing up space for younger players

I think Domata Peko is also at risk to be a cap saving cut. It would save us almost 4 million dollars on the cap next season. Geno is ready to assume a more prominent leadership role on the DL, along with Dunlap, so his veteran leadership isn't necessarily as important. I would much rather cut Peko, sign MJ93 and have to address NT in FA or the draft rather than have to replace MJ.


2014 Draft:

*One note about this draft is there is a solid chance we could get a 5th/6th round comp for Manny Lawson, and a 6th/7th for Pat Sims

1st Round - Vic Beasley - SLB - Clemson - Hear me out, I think SLB is one of our top two picks next season. Even if we don't re-sign MJ93, I still think we target a SLB before a DE. Gilberry, Geathers, Dunlap and Hunt is a solid rotation of DEs, even though we would lack a true back-up at RE. However, Vic Beasley could serve as a RE occasionally even if we don't resign MJ93. The Bengals have a strong history of drafting LBs early under ML and I see no one at SLB that would excite this coaching staff. Rounds out probably the top front seven in football. How does that not get you excited...

2nd Round - La'el Collins - OT - LSU - Again, not a pick that I would probably go into the mock draft forum and suggest but the more I think about it, the more I think the Bengals target a versatile offensive lineman early. This echoes similar situation - the 2006 draft, when we selected LSU grad Andrew Whitworth in the 2nd round despite having Levi Jones and Eric Steinbach as our starters. In this scenario, we are sticking with Andy for at least one more season, and what better way to further ensure he has everything to succeed than another top OL. Collins could end up starting at LG (he played there for LSU before LT), which would ironically be the same approach we took with Whitworth. Put him at LG until we could kick him out to LT. If he doesn't start at LG, I would imagine he could serve as the back-up to each T spot.

3rd Round - Andre Hal - CB - Vanderbilt - I don't know what to make of our CB group. At one look, it appears that even for next season it looks to be in nice shape. Assuming Hall comes back healthy (Lord knows if he'll stay healthy, though), Newman doesn't have age affect him much, and Kirkpatrick/Jones are essentially locks to be back, there's not much room for a first round CB here. That's why I think, as of now, we don't address it until the middle rounds. Or possibly we address it with a veteran CB and focus on upgrading our front seven via the draft. Either way, I do believe CB should be addressed, however we definitely do not need to make it an essential pick in the first round. Whoever we feel is the BPA at the strongest position of need should be our selection.

4th Round - Damien Williams - RB - Oklahoma - Has had a solid career for Oklahoma, and definitely has a lot of tread left on his tires. Flashes the ability to be a solid receiver out of the backfield, but haven't seen a lot as far as blocking goes. Although he's not quite the power back we may expect to compliment Bernard, I think he has the between the tackle, slashing ability to be a solid RB in our power/pull scheme.

5th Round - DeVante Parker - WR - Louisville - This is where the Bengals begin their tradition of drafting projects who can contribute on special teams right away. Parker, I feel, could be a huge surprise from this draft. He has underrated athleticism and locates the ball well. Could be another Marvin Jones type pick.

6th Round - Kenny Guiton - QB - Ohio State - A little bit of a surprise pick, and it offers no immediate STs, which the Bengals like this late, but I would be surprised if we didn't target a FA veteran as a back-up, or went after a project later. Although little starting experience, I like Guiton as a better NFL prospect than Brax Miller. Basically would be looking at a Matt Casell attempt in the NFL.

7th Round - Gabe Ikard - C - Oklahoma - Has been playing at Oklahoma with previous pick Williams. Can play both C and the G's spot, so provides some extra versatility. Bengals love their late round offensive lineman.

QB - Andy Dalton : Veteran QB
RB - Giovanni Bernard : Damien Williams : Cedric Peerman : Rex Burkhead
FB - Orson Charles
TE - Tyler Eifert : Jermaine Gresham : Veteran TE
X - Marvin Jones : DeVante Parker
Y - Andrew Hawkins : Mohammed Sanu
Z - A.J. Green : Ryan Whalen
RT - Andre Smith : La'el Collins
RG - Kevin Zeitler : Mike Pollack
C - Kyle Cook : Trevor Robinson : Gabe Ikard
LG - Clint Boling : Mike Pollack
LT - Andrew Whitworth : La'el Collins

LE - Carlos Dunlap : Margus Hunt
UT - Geno Atkins : Devon Still
NT - Domata Peko : Brandon Thompson
RE - Michael Johnson : Wallace Gilberry
SLB - James Harrison : Vic Beasley : Jayson DiManche
MLB - Rey Maualuga : Vincent Rey
WLB - Vontaze Burfict : Sean Porter
LCB - Terrence Newman : Dre Kirkpatrick : Andre Hal
FS - Reggie Nelson : Shawn Williams
SS - George Iloka : Taylor Mays
RCB - Leon Hall : Adam Jones : Brandon Ghee

P - Kevin Huber
K - Mike Nugent
LS - Clark Harris

One thing I noticed while doing this... We have so few FA's and so few positions that could be upgraded via FA in this year that I would be surprised to see us active at all. Of course we'll sign a few veteran players that could come in as solid back-ups or camp competition, but our own players should definitely be our primary concern. That's one of the main reasons why I have high hopes for re-signing MJ93.
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INbengalfan


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it a lot. Obviously I agree with keeping MJ93 and have been saying it since the summer. I agree that geathers is gone to save cap space. I honestly doubt we'd cut Peko, as loyalty from the front office as well as his production have not declined. I think you are right about Mays as well. hawkins will be cheap enough to retain (isn't he still restricted anyway?).

I'd personally keep Charles as the third TE and bring back Pressley as the FB. I'd keep Sanzenbacher as the 6th WR over Whalen. I wouldn't waste the time or effort to bring back Ghee, who has done as close to abso0lute zero as humanly possible these past four seasons.

As for the draft, it hits obvious needs and I could see it happening. If we are cutting ties with Tate (and as much as we would like to bid aloha to him, Marvin doesn't seem to share the setiment) you haven't addressed KR in that roster. Might I suggest McCallebb in Ghee's roster spot just to fill it on paper? I like Guiton as a backup QB. It's obvious he can handle the resoponsibilities of being a backup while always being ready when called upon. Since you don't have any Georgia players in your draft, why not take a WR from there instead (the one coming off the ACL injury).

Otherwise, i can definitely dig it.
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Jason_Bengal_Fl


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a chance they cut Peko. Period.

I don't see us cutting Bennie without adding a power back.

I have not seen Beasley play. But unless he is a very good LB in coverage, there is no way we take him in 1. Don't use a first round pick on a guy who will only play 1/3 of the time.
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MrCincinnati


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still to early for me to look at this honestly. There are several players I wouldn't wan to let go but the team wont have a choice once free agency hits

All I know is the team should try to resign Anthony Collins, Michael Johnson, Vincent Rey, Taylor Mays, and Chris Crocker.

Draft need wise I would go after CB, OLB, DE, WR, and DT in that order
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Anonymous3


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

INbengalfan wrote:
I like it a lot. Obviously I agree with keeping MJ93 and have been saying it since the summer. I agree that geathers is gone to save cap space. I honestly doubt we'd cut Peko, as loyalty from the front office as well as his production have not declined. I think you are right about Mays as well. hawkins will be cheap enough to retain (isn't he still restricted anyway?).

I'd personally keep Charles as the third TE and bring back Pressley as the FB. I'd keep Sanzenbacher as the 6th WR over Whalen. I wouldn't waste the time or effort to bring back Ghee, who has done as close to abso0lute zero as humanly possible these past four seasons.

As for the draft, it hits obvious needs and I could see it happening. If we are cutting ties with Tate (and as much as we would like to bid aloha to him, Marvin doesn't seem to share the setiment) you haven't addressed KR in that roster. Might I suggest McCallebb in Ghee's roster spot just to fill it on paper? I like Guiton as a backup QB. It's obvious he can handle the resoponsibilities of being a backup while always being ready when called upon. Since you don't have any Georgia players in your draft, why not take a WR from there instead (the one coming off the ACL injury).

Otherwise, i can definitely dig it.


Didn't even think of addressing KR/PR at the end. Remind you, I posted this at almost 6am EST. Laughing

I can also agree with your feelings about some of my final cuts. When looking at Sanzenbacher and Whalen, I kept Whalen simply because I felt he provided better STs value, where Sanzenbacher would've been kept around in the hopes he develops a role in the offense. Was very unsure how I felt about FB/TE. Without seeing Pressley this year, we have no indication of how the coaching staff will, or even if they would, use him this season. And I didn't realize Ghee was in his fourth season; I would probably change his roster spot to another DB or WR, preferably one with returning ability.
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Anonymous3


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jason_Bengal_Fl wrote:
Not a chance they cut Peko. Period.

I don't see us cutting Bennie without adding a power back.

I have not seen Beasley play. But unless he is a very good LB in coverage, there is no way we take him in 1. Don't use a first round pick on a guy who will only play 1/3 of the time.


Crazier things have happened, but I do agree with you that I do not feel they cut him. I just mentioned that, because he has the highest and most expendable contract. However, I think the Bengals love Peko, as do I, and I do not see him being cut. Just simply throwing it out there - which was my intention with this - to get us talking a little.

Statistically speaking, BJGE has been one of the most ineffective short-down backs the past few seasons. Almost anything is an upgrade at this point over his subpar play. Although Williams isn't a powerback per say, he is a productive player who would fit well behind our OL. With better measurables, he would probably be a 2nd/3rd round selection. Again, just a scenario to throw out there. I would be surprised to see BJGE cut, but I'm the conductor of the bandwagon.

Beasley hasn't really spent much time in coverage, so not a lot to report on there. But, first Beasley would play more than 33% of snaps that's a guarantee. And second, we cannot deny the Bengals draft history bodes favorably for an early LB in this draft. This is one of the moves on my off season that was more guided by what I think the coaches are thinking - and I think they want a big, athletic SLB early.
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Anonymous3


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrCincinnati wrote:
Still to early for me to look at this honestly. There are several players I wouldn't wan to let go but the team wont have a choice once free agency hits

All I know is the team should try to resign Anthony Collins, Michael Johnson, Vincent Rey, Taylor Mays, and Chris Crocker.

Draft need wise I would go after CB, OLB, DE, WR, and DT in that order


Never too early for me. Most of us found this website in pursuit of draft knowledge and the NFL's off season, to me, is just as exciting as watching the games. But in terms of player rankings - yes, it is far too early. That's why I tried to be conservative on my rounds and not predicting any big drops.

I think Crocker heads back into retirement. But I agree, Collins, MJ, Mays and Rey should be our #1 priorities to bring back. Each one has a big role on our team.
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Anonymous3


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to stir up discussion, if the Bengals move forward the rest of the year with Whitworth at LG and Collins at LT, and it proves to be very successful, do we feel that this is a potential permanent move? We would have to count on re-signing Collins, but I would love for it to happen. Just draft/sign a swing G/T who can fill in if Whit, Collins or Andre went down.
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous3 wrote:
Just to stir up discussion, if the Bengals move forward the rest of the year with Whitworth at LG and Collins at LT, and it proves to be very successful, do we feel that this is a potential permanent move? We would have to count on re-signing Collins, but I would love for it to happen. Just draft/sign a swing G/T who can fill in if Whit, Collins or Andre went down.


If it works, Collins should be as good as gone. I was surprised no one offered him more money last time tbh. He's not an elite LT but he's definitely better than a good amount of LT's I see playing.

His price tag (unless he struggles) is going to be too high for us to re-sign this offseason...
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Anonymous3


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheVillain112 wrote:
Anonymous3 wrote:
Just to stir up discussion, if the Bengals move forward the rest of the year with Whitworth at LG and Collins at LT, and it proves to be very successful, do we feel that this is a potential permanent move? We would have to count on re-signing Collins, but I would love for it to happen. Just draft/sign a swing G/T who can fill in if Whit, Collins or Andre went down.


If it works, Collins should be as good as gone. I was surprised no one offered him more money last time tbh. He's not an elite LT but he's definitely better than a good amount of LT's I see playing.

His price tag (unless he struggles) is going to be too high for us to re-sign this offseason...


I definitely agree, and I think we should focus that money on bringing back MJ93. I can't stress enough how vital I think he is to our DL. His run defense this season has been off the charts.
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Conquest8089


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the issue. You kept Dunlap & Michael Johnson's leaving in Free Agency. Simply cannot afford to keep Johnson when you've got A.J. The Franchise Tag is likely outside the realm of possibility, and Johnson will command over 10 Million annually on the open market. He has Jacksonville written all of him, 6 Years 67.5 M w/ 24.0 M Guaranteed. Act like Mike Brown pays that price.

Next, I would seriously consider trading Jermaine Gresham. He's not in the longterm plans & dealing him could return either picks or a player. I'd love to see him dealt to Tampa Bay for Da'Quan Bowers.

BJGE won't be cut a year early despite the cap savings. Why cut a productive player? It's 2.5 M, and you watch Giovani will have injury issues next year.

I think you reach on Andre Hal & Damien Williams. And to me DeVante Parker's a 4th Rounder at the least.
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INbengalfan


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conquest8089 wrote:
Here's the issue. You kept Dunlap & Michael Johnson's leaving in Free Agency. Simply cannot afford to keep Johnson when you've got A.J. The Franchise Tag is likely outside the realm of possibility, and Johnson will command over 10 Million annually on the open market. He has Jacksonville written all of him, 6 Years 67.5 M w/ 24.0 M Guaranteed. Act like Mike Brown pays that price.

Next, I would seriously consider trading Jermaine Gresham. He's not in the longterm plans & dealing him could return either picks or a player. I'd love to see him dealt to Tampa Bay for Da'Quan Bowers.

BJGE won't be cut a year early despite the cap savings. Why cut a productive player? It's 2.5 M, and you watch Giovani will have injury issues next year.

I think you reach on Andre Hal & Damien Williams. And to me DeVante Parker's a 4th Rounder at the least.


I disagree. I think MJ93 would take a bit less to stay. A matching contract to what Dunlap got should be close enough to get it done. Someone is going to say that he would have done it last yera if that's the case, but why not take the franchise year, then sign it. I think it's unofficially done already Wink


As for AJ, we can do it this year, next year or the following year. he has one year left on his rookie deal at a club friendly price, a club option for $10 million the next year, and the opportunity to be franchise tagged after that. So if it gets done this offseason, it will be a deal that works for both sides.
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Anonymous3


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conquest8089 wrote:
Here's the issue. You kept Dunlap & Michael Johnson's leaving in Free Agency. Simply cannot afford to keep Johnson when you've got A.J. The Franchise Tag is likely outside the realm of possibility, and Johnson will command over 10 Million annually on the open market. He has Jacksonville written all of him, 6 Years 67.5 M w/ 24.0 M Guaranteed. Act like Mike Brown pays that price.

Next, I would seriously consider trading Jermaine Gresham. He's not in the longterm plans & dealing him could return either picks or a player. I'd love to see him dealt to Tampa Bay for Da'Quan Bowers.

BJGE won't be cut a year early despite the cap savings. Why cut a productive player? It's 2.5 M, and you watch Giovani will have injury issues next year.

I think you reach on Andre Hal & Damien Williams. And to me DeVante Parker's a 4th Rounder at the least.


The Bengals have quite a lot of money to spend on the open market and have very few free agents of our own. In this scenario, we have more than enough money to match any contract given to Johnson. Other teams have been successful fielding an expensive DL and we would be no different.

I do not see anyone taking on Gresham, although Bowers would be a nice reclamation project for us. If we lose MJ93, I would be comfortable with Dunlap/Hunt at LE and Gilberry/Bowers at RE.

BJGE is an average RB, at best. We could stand an upgrade, and for his price tag it is reasonable to think we could replace him. Your RB is only as good as your offensive line, anyway, right? Upgrade our front five, and bring in some fresh legs to pair with Gio.

As far as personal rankings, meh. The point is to look at positions, players are there more for formality. I'd be lying if I said I have the time to sit down and really watch each of these players play. I'll trust the coaching staff on their mid round selections. Everyone rises and drops, so I really don't pay much attention to players with 3rd-5th round grades, like Hal, Williams, and Parker.
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theJ


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

INbengalfan wrote:
I disagree. I think MJ93 would take a bit less to stay. A matching contract to what Dunlap got should be close enough to get it done. Someone is going to say that he would have done it last yera if that's the case, but why not take the franchise year, then sign it. I think it's unofficially done already Wink

Because the franchise tag is extremely risky for the player. Yeah you get paid big money, but the risk of injury offsets the increase in salary. There's a reason no players are ever happy about playing under it.

MJ turned that contract down because he knows he can get more on the open market. And he will. Dunlap got 6 years, $40mil. MJ will get at least $20 mil more than that from someone. It won't be Cincinnati.

Charles Johnson is probably the best comp in terms of age/production. He got a 6 year, $76mil deal in 2011. I think MJ will be looking for something close to that, then probably get something a little less than that. But certainly more than Dunlaps deal. That was a steal.
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the Bengals should do is offer a contract to Michael Bennett. He's on a 1 year deal with Seattle IIRC. He's as good as MJ93 overall (Better pass rusher, not as good against the run). But should be cheaper...
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