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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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 Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:31 am Post subject: |
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^^^^Again, no doubt about it. I thought after watching the replay , throw could have been a little earlier. But his arm strength at times can make up for that. It seemed Ogeltree finished his route before Josh threw it.
It was all in all a great throw. But come regular season, Freeman is going to have to be quicker with his reads. What seperates better QBs in this league is, they can take that quick look to get through the 3rd progression. It seems Freeman is a bit slow in the eyes department. It's not just preseason, it;'s always been like that since Kansas State days.
Look, I'm trying not to bash the guy. He seems like a good/great person off the field. But if you're going to ask me how I think he is as a player, physically, everything you look. Mentally, just not there. |
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ravishingone
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 2611
Location: Leola
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| Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Considering it was a preaseason game against a team the Bucs will be playing in the preseason, why would they want either Freeman or Glennon to audible at the line when the blitzes were coming in the first half? All NFL coaches are paranoid about tipping tendencies to opponents, especially an opponent they will play in the regular season. It doesn't excuse Penn, Dotson and Carimi getting beat or Freeman holding onto the ball too long, but I have little doubt they weren't going to show any of their gameplan against the Pats in this game on both sides of the ball. I'm quite certain there were going to be no audibles last night on either side of the ball.
Conversely, on defense the Bucs only rushed 5 on two occasions against Brady. It certainly doesn't excuse the lack of pass rush, but they didn't even try to disturb Brady with scheme. Also, I thought the CBs on the outside generally played well, Amendola abused Johnson between the hashes, which makes me believe the nickel slot position is still up for grabs between Johnson, Gorrer, and Adams. The young d-line guys just need to keep getting reps. Gholston I thought played pretty well at both DE and DT throughout the game. I'm very confident with Banks starting, it sure looks like he belongs.
Finally, as a pro-Freeman guy, but more importantly a Bucs fan, I'm intrigued by Glennon. I thought he was very effective running no huddle and his stats could have been better if not for drops and penalties. He threw the pick 6 which was a mistake, but I'm very impressed with his presence in the pocket, and the guy has plenty of arm to make any throw from anywhere on the field. |
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RoeKG
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4172
Location: PA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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I know I've been a little critical so far this offseason, but I really got the impression from this game that it was treated more like practice.
We're playing the Pats in the regular season, no need to really be going nuts now when we might need every resource to compete in week 3. |
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5nick5
Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 1222
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| RoeKG wrote: | I know I've been a little critical so far this offseason, but I really got the impression from this game that it was treated more like practice.
We're playing the Pats in the regular season, no need to really be going nuts now when we might need every resource to compete in week 3. |
I think we'll see the same a little more of the same next week with Miami, seeing as we play them in the regular season too. But with it being the 3rd pre-season game, the one where the starters stay in the longest, I think we might see the offense and defense mix it up a little more.
On the subject of Glennon, I'm not going to scream for him to get the starter position, but he's played well in my eyes this preseason. Free is obviously still the guy and will remain the guy, but if he goes down to injury or any other reason, I feel more comfortable with Glennon stepping in now than I did a couple of weeks ago.
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Buc Ball
Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 787
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| REDandPEWTER wrote: | ^^^^Again, no doubt about it. I thought after watching the replay , throw could have been a little earlier. But his arm strength at times can make up for that. It seemed Ogeltree finished his route before Josh threw it.
It was all in all a great throw. But come regular season, Freeman is going to have to be quicker with his reads. What seperates better QBs in this league is, they can take that quick look to get through the 3rd progression. It seems Freeman is a bit slow in the eyes department. It's not just preseason, it;'s always been like that since Kansas State days.
Look, I'm trying not to bash the guy. He seems like a good/great person off the field. But if you're going to ask me how I think he is as a player, physically, everything you look. Mentally, just not there. |
I agree dude. I think we're kinda arguing the same thing to a point. He's always had the physical ability, but mentally he seems to decide pre snap at times.
As I said, that particular play was a dud against that coverage and the blocking was horrendous, but I think he made a good decision. I'm a big believer in the Parcells philosophy of assessing 1 player by assessing the actions of the other 21.
I really hope he makes the next step this year. This is his first uninterrupted offseason in the same scheme and with the same staff. That should make a huge difference. I more concerned about both the o-line and d-line at this point. |
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Buc Ball wrote: | | REDandPEWTER wrote: | ^^^^Again, no doubt about it. I thought after watching the replay , throw could have been a little earlier. But his arm strength at times can make up for that. It seemed Ogeltree finished his route before Josh threw it.
It was all in all a great throw. But come regular season, Freeman is going to have to be quicker with his reads. What seperates better QBs in this league is, they can take that quick look to get through the 3rd progression. It seems Freeman is a bit slow in the eyes department. It's not just preseason, it;'s always been like that since Kansas State days.
Look, I'm trying not to bash the guy. He seems like a good/great person off the field. But if you're going to ask me how I think he is as a player, physically, everything you look. Mentally, just not there. |
I agree dude. I think we're kinda arguing the same thing to a point. He's always had the physical ability, but mentally he seems to decide pre snap at times.
As I said, that particular play was a dud against that coverage and the blocking was horrendous, but I think he made a good decision. I'm a big believer in the Parcells philosophy of assessing 1 player by assessing the actions of the other 21.
I really hope he makes the next step this year. This is his first uninterrupted offseason in the same scheme and with the same staff. That should make a huge difference. I more concerned about both the o-line and d-line at this point. |
now that's just not true. He had Olsen's System for 3 years. Yes. Olsen sucked as a coach and Jagazinksi was fired after 5 months, but I remember making the transition to Olsen, that the playbook terminology wasn't much different.
It's not like other QBs go through offensive QB change. Matt Ryan did it this year. Flourished. Peyton Manning? Flourished. Rookies like Andrew Luck learned a new scheme last year coming in. Now he's got his old OC at Stanford and going back to something similar. Russel Wilson learned a new offense and was a rookie.
To me, only the good QB who belong as starters in the nfl adapt to change and can learn the playbooks and pick up terminiolgy quicker. |
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Buc Ball
Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 787
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| REDandPEWTER wrote: | | Buc Ball wrote: | | REDandPEWTER wrote: | ^^^^Again, no doubt about it. I thought after watching the replay , throw could have been a little earlier. But his arm strength at times can make up for that. It seemed Ogeltree finished his route before Josh threw it.
It was all in all a great throw. But come regular season, Freeman is going to have to be quicker with his reads. What seperates better QBs in this league is, they can take that quick look to get through the 3rd progression. It seems Freeman is a bit slow in the eyes department. It's not just preseason, it;'s always been like that since Kansas State days.
Look, I'm trying not to bash the guy. He seems like a good/great person off the field. But if you're going to ask me how I think he is as a player, physically, everything you look. Mentally, just not there. |
I agree dude. I think we're kinda arguing the same thing to a point. He's always had the physical ability, but mentally he seems to decide pre snap at times.
As I said, that particular play was a dud against that coverage and the blocking was horrendous, but I think he made a good decision. I'm a big believer in the Parcells philosophy of assessing 1 player by assessing the actions of the other 21.
I really hope he makes the next step this year. This is his first uninterrupted offseason in the same scheme and with the same staff. That should make a huge difference. I more concerned about both the o-line and d-line at this point. |
now that's just not true. He had Olsen's System for 3 years. Yes. Olsen sucked as a coach and Jagazinksi was fired after 5 months, but I remember making the transition to Olsen, that the playbook terminology wasn't much different.
It's not like other QBs go through offensive QB change. Matt Ryan did it this year. Flourished. Peyton Manning? Flourished. Rookies like Andrew Luck learned a new scheme last year coming in. Now he's got his old OC at Stanford and going back to something similar. Russel Wilson learned a new offense and was a rookie.
To me, only the good QB who belong as starters in the nfl adapt to change and can learn the playbooks and pick up terminiolgy quicker. |
I seem to remember Olsen's system being far more complex than Jagodzinski's. The difference could be seen when we had Olsen's system fully installed by about game 3. We also used Jag's system for the first few regular season games.
Offseason 09: Jagodzinski
Offseason 10: Olsen
Offseason 11: Lockout
Offseason 12: Sully
Offseason 13: Sully
The only time in his career that Freeman has had both the opportunity to work with the same OC for an entire offseason and with the same system is this year. In 09, yes he predominately played using Olsen's system. A system that players came out after the fact and said was being installed during games. Furthermore, a lot of the playbook was held back from Josh in 09. Offseason 10, he's learning a different system from what he learned in the lead up to his rookie year, but he has game film and coaching available to go through the games from 2009 where Olsen's system was in use. He then goes and has his best season. Offseason 11 was interupted by the lockout. And now we're at this point. Freeman should have his best year as a Buc this year after setting franchise records last year.
The Denver offense was adapted for Manning. You can pretty much guarentee that the ATL and Indy offenses were constructed to suit Ryan and Luck as they are both "the guy" for their respective franchises. Wilson has great intangibles and played well, but rookies are traditionally given higher % passing plays.
The mental errors need to be ironed out of Freeman's game. He has the physical tools. Year 2 with Sully will only help him. |
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ravishingone
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 2611
Location: Leola
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| Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| REDandPEWTER wrote: | | Buc Ball wrote: | | REDandPEWTER wrote: | ^^^^Again, no doubt about it. I thought after watching the replay , throw could have been a little earlier. But his arm strength at times can make up for that. It seemed Ogeltree finished his route before Josh threw it.
It was all in all a great throw. But come regular season, Freeman is going to have to be quicker with his reads. What seperates better QBs in this league is, they can take that quick look to get through the 3rd progression. It seems Freeman is a bit slow in the eyes department. It's not just preseason, it;'s always been like that since Kansas State days.
Look, I'm trying not to bash the guy. He seems like a good/great person off the field. But if you're going to ask me how I think he is as a player, physically, everything you look. Mentally, just not there. |
I agree dude. I think we're kinda arguing the same thing to a point. He's always had the physical ability, but mentally he seems to decide pre snap at times.
As I said, that particular play was a dud against that coverage and the blocking was horrendous, but I think he made a good decision. I'm a big believer in the Parcells philosophy of assessing 1 player by assessing the actions of the other 21.
I really hope he makes the next step this year. This is his first uninterrupted offseason in the same scheme and with the same staff. That should make a huge difference. I more concerned about both the o-line and d-line at this point. |
now that's just not true. He had Olsen's System for 3 years. Yes. Olsen sucked as a coach and Jagazinksi was fired after 5 months, but I remember making the transition to Olsen, that the playbook terminology wasn't much different.
It's not like other QBs go through offensive QB change. Matt Ryan did it this year. Flourished. Peyton Manning? Flourished. Rookies like Andrew Luck learned a new scheme last year coming in. Now he's got his old OC at Stanford and going back to something similar. Russel Wilson learned a new offense and was a rookie.
To me, only the good QB who belong as starters in the nfl adapt to change and can learn the playbooks and pick up terminiolgy quicker. |
Let's review the following list of OCs that Manning, Luck, Ryan, and Freeman in their rookie years:
-Tom Moore
-Bruce Arians
-Mike Mularkey
-Greg Olson/Jeff Jagodzinski
To believe that coaching doesn't maximize a young QBs productivity I think is short sighted. I'll politely say that Freeman received very average coaching up to this current regime. Heck, let's go back to college, anyone liking Ron Prince over David Cutliffe, David Shaw, and Tom O'Brien. I don't think so.
Freeman has issues that either have to be corrected this year or the team will move on from him. It was too easy to write a blanket statement that other young QBs have easily made the transition without first acknowledging the coaching support he received. |
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bucstopshere
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 13578
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:53 am Post subject: |
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Just rewatched the 1st quarter, I don't even blame freeman. Oline played down right terrible. The one play they blocked for him he threw a bullett to Olgeltree should have made.
Defensively I'm soooo sick of seeing stunts that don't work. Brady's accuracy is ridiculous. Our secondary has 3 games against surgeons this year, I'm not sure there's anything we can do to be honest lol
Ill post more as I get through the game
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bucstopshere
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 13578
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:24 am Post subject: |
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2nd quarter thoughts
-Oline still bad, a bit better, less blown assignments.
-Olgletree is our number 3. Underwood doesn't separate from defenders and not making plays. Couple great catches from KO.
-Bowers looks SLOWWWWW. Hope that changes before week 1.
-Gaitor having a quiet nice game.
-Glennon has looked good in this quarter. He at the worst will be a very good backup for us
-Nice to see some good special teams play after last week. Good returns by Smith and Page.
-poor Goode, picture perfect coverage and break up. Honestly I don't know why he isn't in the competition for SLB.
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 6802
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Regarding the stunts I agree. I do remember warren sapp was asked about the stunts on wdae. He said they are effective if done right. We don't run them right. |
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tml_gogo
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 13161
Location: Montréal
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| REDandPEWTER wrote: | | Regarding the stunts I agree. I do remember warren sapp was asked about the stunts on wdae. He said they are effective if done right. We don't run them right. |
Wasn't this all taken care of last season? Mccoy told the coaches to just let them attack, all that jazz?
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Mitchiemitchie
Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| bucstopshere wrote: | 2nd quarter thoughts
-Oline still bad, a bit better, less blown assignments.
-Olgletree is our number 3. Underwood doesn't separate from defenders and not making plays. Couple great catches from KO.
-Bowers looks SLOWWWWW. Hope that changes before week 1.
-Gaitor having a quiet nice game.
-Glennon has looked good in this quarter. He at the worst will be a very good backup for us
-Nice to see some good special teams play after last week. Good returns by Smith and Page.
-poor Goode, picture perfect coverage and break up. Honestly I don't know why he isn't in the competition for SLB. |
How do you feel about your UDFA Jace Daniels? I Played next to him for three years in highschool and watched him playing some C/G against the pats. He looked much better at guard than center, but do you think he has a place on the Bucs and where if he does? |
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 6802
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| tml_gogo wrote: | | REDandPEWTER wrote: | | Regarding the stunts I agree. I do remember warren sapp was asked about the stunts on wdae. He said they are effective if done right. We don't run them right. |
Wasn't this all taken care of last season? Mccoy told the coaches to just let them attack, all that jazz? |
Ehh the stunts were effective against the run but they ran it too much. I do agree Sheridan is on a short leash bc schiano did hire an asst defense coord. |
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RB4TampaBay
Joined: 17 Feb 2011
Posts: 362
Location: Seminole, FL
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Mitchiemitchie wrote: |
How do you feel about your UDFA Jace Daniels? I Played next to him for three years in highschool and watched him playing some C/G against the pats. He looked much better at guard than center, but do you think he has a place on the Bucs and where if he does? |
What seems like back in the stone age, I attended Northern Mich. Univ. so I have been rooting for Jace to make the team BIG TIME! Since he has played at Tackle, Guard and Center he is more versatile than some players, but I just don't think that he is up to the NFL level of play yet. Hopefully, he impresses the coach's and make the practice squad where they can work with him some more. I'm no expert, but those is just my thoughts based upon what I have been seeing....sorry. |
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