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GDT- Preseason Week 2: BAL Ravens vs ATL Falcons
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Which big money QB has the better game tonight?
Matt Ryan
42%
 42%  [ 3 ]
Joe Flacco
57%
 57%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 7

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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was Smith actually in press-man coverage though? I didn't see the game but if it was that off-man coverage crap that Pees is infatuated with then it shouldn't be a surprise that he struggled against Jones. Some corners, like Webb, can excel in any type of coverage scheme but those guys are elite. I think we can all agree that Smith is probably only going to be consistently productive when he's lined up in press-man. To me that's not particularly a bad thing because there's always a use for it but I can see the other point of view too.

Darth Pees. Mad
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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
Jimmy Smith looked like crap. But to be fair, they stuck him on an island with Julio Jones most of the first half. Most corners are going to get schooled in that scenario, which I don't think we'd ever see in a game with Webb on the field that we were trying to win.


But here's the thing, Jimmy was drafted because of his man coverage skills and press skills. Julio ATE HIM ALIVE in man coverage and once in zone coverage, too.

Jimmy just doesn't look like he's living up to his 1st round pick, like at all. Sure, sometimes Julio is going to beat guys, but he shouldn't beat them that easily all the time unless they are backup CB's, which Jimmy is proving to be.


But he wasn't playing press. He was giving Julio an eight yard cushion, and the Falcons just did what any smart offense would in that situation, and had Julio run short and comeback routes, leaving Smith stranded.

Either Pees didn't ask him to adjust, or Smith didn't take heed of any such adjustments. But whatever the reason, he was playing Julio in completely the wrong way, for the given circumstances.

Smith has to be quicker in reading routes, and he has to keep his eyes on the receiver more, that's definitely true. And perhaps that's why they had him play so far off, they wanted him to work on those skills, because they know that in press he can do what they ask of him. Yeah, clutching at straws maybe, but it seems to me that you'd want to use pre-season games to have players work on areas of need, rather than have them doing the things you already know they're good at.

If all of that is just pie-in-the-sky, and Pees just likes his guys in off-man, giving up yardage on short plays, then yeah, Jimmy will probably be a bust. That's not the way his game is built, and in all likelihood, it never will be.
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimmy looked like crap last night, but I'm not going to get worried until he starts playing like that in regular season games. In the preseason when you're goal is to play vanilla by design so as to show as little on film as possible, it's sometimes going to be hard to get a read on your defensive guys. They're often put in no-win situations, and playing Julio Jones one-on-one without much in the form of specific scheming to make the situation better is going to one of those no-win situations.
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Last edited by BaltimoreTerp on Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, Jimmy was never in press coverage last night, and that's something I've noticed for basically his entire career. His strength is press-man coverage and we are asking him to play mostly off zone or off man coverage...it's a recipe for disaster.
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I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sucks. Jimmy would've been perfect for us if we had Rex as a DC.

In terms of his poor play. I think Jimmy, throughout both games, tended to do a good job of keeping good coverage, but he would often get his head around just a split second too late and receivers were making tough grabs.

Julio had a play like that on the sidelines. The TD play to Julio, I think looked like a mis-communication. Jimmy looked pretty flagrant after the TD that he didn't have inside help. Usually when Jimmy gives up a pass play, he has a sort of nervous laugh. But on that play, that wasn't his reaction. He was noticably upset with Elam there.

No doubt Jimmy didn't play well in coverage, but this is really his first true offseason without being affected by injuries. And he came into the league as a pure press man corner. I think it's obvious that Smith has grown since his rookie year in his off-man technique. He's not where we want him to be and he's not being utilized in the way we should, but I think he's close to getting to his next level. He's not like Cary Williams, who seemed to never get his head around- at all (but caught interceptions when he did.), rather Jimmy does get his head around, but his head turn has been beat by the ball's velocity. He gets a little quicker in that department and suddenly he's intercepting passes.

That said, this next preseason game is probably make or break. He'd better bring his 'A Game' to win that starting spot opposite Webb.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definitely agree that if Rex was here as DC, Jimmy Smith would be dominating people in coverage.

I just don't understand why we would've drafted a guy in the 1st round as a press man corner if we planned to use him as an off zone corner. It makes no sense. We are essentially doing to him what Philadelphia did to Nnamdi Asomugha.

The thing I'm afraid of is that if we keep putting in him unfavorable positions that don't play to his strengths, his confidence will completely shatter, he'll be released or traded and then tear it up elsewhere where the DC actually uses him correctly.
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I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good call guys. I didn't even notice that coverage choice yesterday. 1 on 1 on the line with no press is an impossible situation for the cornerback against anyone, let alone a freak like Julio. The slowest WR in the league would get wide open on the first cut with that defense. Revis, Sherman, Webb... all would have had no chance against Jones like that.

I really hope that was just a lets see what you can do game for Jimmy Smith and we never see that in the regular season.
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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
I definitely agree that if Rex was here as DC, Jimmy Smith would be dominating people in coverage.

I just don't understand why we would've drafted a guy in the 1st round as a press man corner if we planned to use him as an off zone corner. It makes no sense. We are essentially doing to him what Philadelphia did to Nnamdi Asomugha.

The thing I'm afraid of is that if we keep putting in him unfavorable positions that don't play to his strengths, his confidence will completely shatter, he'll be released or traded and then tear it up elsewhere where the DC actually uses him correctly.


Well, when they drafted him, Pagano was the DC. I don't recall much of what Jimmy did in his rookie season, as he missed a large chunk of it through injury, but my guess is that Pags would have had him play more aggressively, when he was up to speed. Pags was a more aggressive coach than Pees, that much is indisputable.

If Pees really wants to have him play off-man, then at some point, someone needs to intervene and point out that it is wasting the potential that he has. But it seems like Pees is obsessed with not giving up any big plays, which means he'd rather his DBs gave up catches but then made tackles. Like Cary Williams used to. But I tore my hair out every time I saw him let a receiver make a 12 yard reception, then tackled him and came up thumping his chest with pride.

And honestly, there are pros and cons to consider. If Jimmy played press against someone like Julio Jones, and was burned on the LOS, then that's a wide open reception for the guy, and a possible TD given up. So perhaps Pees just doesn't like that as a defensive concept. In which case, it might be better to trade Jimmy to a team that plays press.
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mancunian Raven wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
I definitely agree that if Rex was here as DC, Jimmy Smith would be dominating people in coverage.

I just don't understand why we would've drafted a guy in the 1st round as a press man corner if we planned to use him as an off zone corner. It makes no sense. We are essentially doing to him what Philadelphia did to Nnamdi Asomugha.

The thing I'm afraid of is that if we keep putting in him unfavorable positions that don't play to his strengths, his confidence will completely shatter, he'll be released or traded and then tear it up elsewhere where the DC actually uses him correctly.


Well, when they drafted him, Pagano was the DC. I don't recall much of what Jimmy did in his rookie season, as he missed a large chunk of it through injury, but my guess is that Pags would have had him play more aggressively, when he was up to speed. Pags was a more aggressive coach than Pees, that much is indisputable.

If Pees really wants to have him play off-man, then at some point, someone needs to intervene and point out that it is wasting the potential that he has. But it seems like Pees is obsessed with not giving up any big plays, which means he'd rather his DBs gave up catches but then made tackles. Like Cary Williams used to. But I tore my hair out every time I saw him let a receiver make a 12 yard reception, then tackled him and came up thumping his chest with pride.

And honestly, there are pros and cons to consider. If Jimmy played press against someone like Julio Jones, and was burned on the LOS, then that's a wide open reception for the guy, and a possible TD given up. So perhaps Pees just doesn't like that as a defensive concept. In which case, it might be better to trade Jimmy to a team that plays press.


If you didn't want to press AND you aren't going to give safety help, you can't also play Smith within 5 yards of the LoS. He has to be like 10+ yards back. There is no way scheme that makes the way he was lined up and played it, smart.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mancunian Raven wrote:
If Pees really wants to have him play off-man, then at some point, someone needs to intervene and point out that it is wasting the potential that he has. But it seems like Pees is obsessed with not giving up any big plays, which means he'd rather his DBs gave up catches but then made tackles. Like Cary Williams used to. But I tore my hair out every time I saw him let a receiver make a 12 yard reception, then tackled him and came up thumping his chest with pride.


Yep. It was the same when he was with New England too. There are pros and cons to just about every scheme but that type of coverage mentality is one I can't stand.
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RavensfanRD


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, according to Rob Long on the Vinnie and Rob show, Rob stated that Jimmy told him in the locker room after a game that he hated press coverage. That could be a reason you're not seeing it with him as well. Don't matter what Jimmy does from here. He made my unforgettable play of the Superbowl on 3rd and goal.

Still gives me goosebumps. That play was full of win. I mean, FULL OF WIN. And the way he showboated at the end made the play an instant classic to me.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it matters if Jimmy hates playing press coverage - he's good at it and in the end he'll like it more than giving up TD's his entire career playing off coverage...
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I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He must have hated his college career too then. That's all Smith played as the boundary corner at Colorado.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
He must have hated his college career too then. That's all Smith played as the boundary corner at Colorado.


Yeah, and it's weird. Maybe he just doesn't like the technique of press coverage they make him play here? Idk, that's the only thing I can imagine because I can't picture him hating the way he played in college when he dominated and was drafted in the 1st round...

Or maybe he did...and then idk what he likes doing because if he likes giving up catch after catch, he's a weird dude.
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I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensfanRD wrote:
Well, according to Rob Long on the Vinnie and Rob show, Rob stated that Jimmy told him in the locker room after a game that he hated press coverage. That could be a reason you're not seeing it with him as well. Don't matter what Jimmy does from here. He made my unforgettable play of the Superbowl on 3rd and goal.

Still gives me goosebumps. That play was full of win. I mean, FULL OF WIN. And the way he showboated at the end made the play an instant classic to me
.


I actually haven't really thought about that. He clearly hasn't been a great pick to this point, but that ending to the super bowl makes him a permanent part of Ravens history. Similar to FredEx with the Eagles on 4th-26, without that he's probably just be another busted WR pick.
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