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Go_Ravens2


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
Was just looking through some mock drafts and this thought popped into my head...

Depending on the board, do you think it's possible Ravens might double dip at WR in the first two rounds?

Now, I know some of you aren't high on Evans but let's assume we are (because I am and I'm smarter than all of you Wink). He's there at #16 and we scoop him up.

Now, round 2 rolls around and sitting there at our pick is Jordan Matthews. They are different types of receivers that would complement each other rather nicely (and both different from Torrey). What are chances the Ravens scoop up Matthews too? Would you be for/against it if he presented the best value available?


I don't think I'd necessarily be for it or against it. We have so many other needs, that I would hate to double up on the same position with our first two picks, but if they provide the best value, then it is hard to be upset with the picks. I just think Joe needs improved Oline play more than 2 new WRs. If he has time to stand in the pocket and has even a somewhat decent running game, we all know he's capable of finding WRs, so I put more of a priority on the Oline personally.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
Was just looking through some mock drafts and this thought popped into my head...

Depending on the board, do you think it's possible Ravens might double dip at WR in the first two rounds?

Now, I know some of you aren't high on Evans but let's assume we are (because I am and I'm smarter than all of you Wink). He's there at #16 and we scoop him up.

Now, round 2 rolls around and sitting there at our pick is Jordan Matthews. They are different types of receivers that would complement each other rather nicely (and both different from Torrey). What are chances the Ravens scoop up Matthews too? Would you be for/against it if he presented the best value available?

Well.. after this senior bowl, this scenario probably becomes extremely unlikely unless Matthews sees a poor combine (or injury) however to entertain this hypothetical... I would have to imagine we would pass on the 2nd WR for a similarly ranked talent at another position of need or attempt to trade down before considering that WR.

The only way I think we might take that WR is if the team had Evans and Matthews similarly graded. Say we have both graded as top 15 talents on our board. And say other positions get picked apart and by mid-2nd round we're left with a top 15 player (Matthews/Evans) vs the 35th best player on our board. A wide discrepancy.

That said, the front office reorganizes the board after round one, so under such revision... and with need playing a part, that top 15 receiver may no longer be the highest regarded talent even considering his obviously higher ranking going into round one.
==========

Now to answer your question about what I would do... I would take Jordan Matthews. Because he's my top ranked WR in this draft class (and has been for quite awhile). It would suck for Marlon Brown... as he goes from being the 2nd best rookie WR in franchise history... to a 4th option that might rarely see the field. But hey... I'm not tied to Brown, I don't see him as anything special. A trio of Smith, Matthews, Evans would give the Ravens a trio to compare with some of the best the NFL has to offer... all three would be guys I would view as being top 30 WR talents with the potential to be top 15 options.

Evans, Matthews, and Pitta would give Flacco 3 legitimate redzone targets to throw to... and Smith can make redzone grabs as well when given 1on1 situations. Flacco could go from a 20 TD passer type to a 35+ TD guy under a more pass aggressive coordinator like Linehan. I could even see 5k passing with those type of weapons.

And considering we could potentially answer our OL situation with the 3rd/4th round and Ozzie's track record of being able to find productive defensive players with late picks/cap casualties... I like our chances of improving the defense outside of the top of the draft more than improving our weapons. I think it could definitely work.

1. Mike Evans, WR, Texas A&M
2. Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt
3. Gabe Jackson, OG, Mississippi State
4c. Tyler Larsen, C, Utah State
4c. Jay Bromley, DT, Syracuse
5c. Ronald Powell, LB, Florida
6. Aaron Colvin, CB, Oklahoma
7c. Sean Parker, S, Washington

Would address all of our needs with players I'm a fan of or have serious potential. We could use cap casualties to add veterans to the roster to cover a CB like Colvin, who will need a year to recover from his torn ACL. And we could also add a veteran safety to compete with Parker and our other young options for that FS spot opposite Elam.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go_Ravens2 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Was just looking through some mock drafts and this thought popped into my head...

Depending on the board, do you think it's possible Ravens might double dip at WR in the first two rounds?

Now, I know some of you aren't high on Evans but let's assume we are (because I am and I'm smarter than all of you Wink). He's there at #16 and we scoop him up.

Now, round 2 rolls around and sitting there at our pick is Jordan Matthews. They are different types of receivers that would complement each other rather nicely (and both different from Torrey). What are chances the Ravens scoop up Matthews too? Would you be for/against it if he presented the best value available?


I don't think I'd necessarily be for it or against it. We have so many other needs, that I would hate to double up on the same position with our first two picks, but if they provide the best value, then it is hard to be upset with the picks. I just think Joe needs improved Oline play more than 2 new WRs. If he has time to stand in the pocket and has even a somewhat decent running game, we all know he's capable of finding WRs, so I put more of a priority on the Oline personally.


I completely agree that OL is more important. I just happened to stumble across a mock draft in which there really weren't any good value OL available at our picks and while in that scenario I think we'd likely trade back, I was just curious about opinions.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
Go_Ravens2 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Was just looking through some mock drafts and this thought popped into my head...

Depending on the board, do you think it's possible Ravens might double dip at WR in the first two rounds?

Now, I know some of you aren't high on Evans but let's assume we are (because I am and I'm smarter than all of you Wink). He's there at #16 and we scoop him up.

Now, round 2 rolls around and sitting there at our pick is Jordan Matthews. They are different types of receivers that would complement each other rather nicely (and both different from Torrey). What are chances the Ravens scoop up Matthews too? Would you be for/against it if he presented the best value available?


I don't think I'd necessarily be for it or against it. We have so many other needs, that I would hate to double up on the same position with our first two picks, but if they provide the best value, then it is hard to be upset with the picks. I just think Joe needs improved Oline play more than 2 new WRs. If he has time to stand in the pocket and has even a somewhat decent running game, we all know he's capable of finding WRs, so I put more of a priority on the Oline personally.


I completely agree that OL is more important. I just happened to stumble across a mock draft in which there really weren't any good value OL available at our picks and while in that scenario I think we'd likely trade back, I was just curious about opinions.

What mock was this, if I might ask... I can't say I've seen a mock where I haven't been a fan of some sort of talent on the board.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Go_Ravens2 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Was just looking through some mock drafts and this thought popped into my head...

Depending on the board, do you think it's possible Ravens might double dip at WR in the first two rounds?

Now, I know some of you aren't high on Evans but let's assume we are (because I am and I'm smarter than all of you Wink). He's there at #16 and we scoop him up.

Now, round 2 rolls around and sitting there at our pick is Jordan Matthews. They are different types of receivers that would complement each other rather nicely (and both different from Torrey). What are chances the Ravens scoop up Matthews too? Would you be for/against it if he presented the best value available?


I don't think I'd necessarily be for it or against it. We have so many other needs, that I would hate to double up on the same position with our first two picks, but if they provide the best value, then it is hard to be upset with the picks. I just think Joe needs improved Oline play more than 2 new WRs. If he has time to stand in the pocket and has even a somewhat decent running game, we all know he's capable of finding WRs, so I put more of a priority on the Oline personally.


I completely agree that OL is more important. I just happened to stumble across a mock draft in which there really weren't any good value OL available at our picks and while in that scenario I think we'd likely trade back, I was just curious about opinions.

What mock was this, if I might ask... I can't say I've seen a mock where I haven't been a fan of some sort of talent on the board.


http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=540876

This is the one that inspired my question. I based it off of the presumption that our 1st pick was real (though there is more talent still available that I might take over Evans, so it's debatable). However in the 2nd, the OL talent isn't great value.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taken from the NFL Draft forum. I think it's safe to say we know who is going at our 1st round pick.

Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
Quote:
Vanderbilt senior WR Jordan Matthews was "spectacular" at Tuesday's Senior Bowl practice, according to NFL.com's Chase Goodbread.
Matthews was upset with himself for dropping some passes on Monday, and he made up for it the next day. "He will go into the briar patch, take his hits and keep on ticking," NFL Media analyst Charles Davis said after Tuesday's practice. "I never worry about that part with him. Obviously, people are going to want to know what he runs (at the combine). All in all, I think he's a big-time prospect. Let's face it: How many quarterbacks threw to him at Vanderbilt? Try to name them all. Yet everyone knew he was coming each week in the SEC." Matthews remained after practice to work on red-zone throws with Derek Carr. He's a coach's dream


http://www.rotoworld.com/sports/cfb/nfl-draft

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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This WR class is starting to look so strong, that there should still be some real steals to be had on day two of the draft.

I've been trying to put together my own mock, but just keep second guessing myself on where the Ravens can get real value with their first and second round picks. Tackle then WR? TE then Tackle? WR then Tackle? I could really be happy with any combination, right now.
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dcarey20


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My personal favorite target for us in the first right now is Eric Ebron, even if we re-sign Pitta (which I'm hoping for obviously).

I'm a huge fan of Ebron and think he's talented enough (along with a healthy Pitta) to solve some of the problems that we had with the loss of Boldin.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mancunian Raven wrote:
This WR class is starting to look so strong, that there should still be some real steals to be had on day two of the draft.

I've been trying to put together my own mock, but just keep second guessing myself on where the Ravens can get real value with their first and second round picks. Tackle then WR? TE then Tackle? WR then Tackle? I could really be happy with any combination, right now.


It's a tough scenario to figure out. Free agency is going to be huge. A second tight end and backup to Pitta could probably be had at a pretty good price on the open market. Given the wide receiver class I think it's more likely that they add one through the draft but what if a guy like Hakeem Nicks doesn't command a big contract? When healthy he's pretty much the epitome of what we want to add to the receiver group. Tackle might not even be a need in their minds if they like Wagner like I mentioned a little while back. I think Monroe will definitely be re-signed and maybe they would be content to bring in cheaper veteran to compete with Wagner for the right side. Center is the one area where I believe they will likely look to address in free agency with the draft class at that position and the potential for the staff to want to keep developing Gradkowski and Jensen.

Any of those situations aren't that unrealistic in my opinion. The least likely thing to happen in my mind is taking a tight end with an early pick. With the comments about Brown's catch radius that makes me think that they don't think he plays big enough and that's probably not what they want on the outside. Taking a tight end early on would pretty much cement him out there because Pitta and ____ rookie tight end would be lining up at the traditional position and in the slot. But maybe I'm reading too much into those comments. I'm at a loss right now. If I do any mock drafts for the Ravens they won't come until mid-late April. Everything is just too fluid.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
Taken from the NFL Draft forum. I think it's safe to say we know who is going at our 1st round pick.

Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
Quote:
Vanderbilt senior WR Jordan Matthews was "spectacular" at Tuesday's Senior Bowl practice, according to NFL.com's Chase Goodbread.
Matthews was upset with himself for dropping some passes on Monday, and he made up for it the next day. "He will go into the briar patch, take his hits and keep on ticking," NFL Media analyst Charles Davis said after Tuesday's practice. "I never worry about that part with him. Obviously, people are going to want to know what he runs (at the combine). All in all, I think he's a big-time prospect. Let's face it: How many quarterbacks threw to him at Vanderbilt? Try to name them all. Yet everyone knew he was coming each week in the SEC." Matthews remained after practice to work on red-zone throws with Derek Carr. He's a coach's dream


http://www.rotoworld.com/sports/cfb/nfl-draft

Yup. I read this earlier. And those are some of the intangibles that impressed me to the point where I wanted him in the first round back when he was a solid 2nd round guy... and why I have him as my top receiver... for the Ravens. Sammy Watkins might be the better receiver overall (considering other teams), but considering Torrey Smith in the equation, I think Matthews is the best WR in this draft. He is possessed of everything you look for.

He might not test well in speed, but he's sudden... will probably run a 6.9 cone drill. And he's going to have an insane vertical.. probably 37 1/2"+ IMO. He can get up with the best of them. I like your Jordy Nelson comparison, but before that he reminded me of a poor man's AJ Green with how consistent he is, yet a threat at every level of the defense with his suddenness, fluidity, versatility, and long frame.

Above all, it's his mentality/passion that most impresses me. I think Jordan Matthews is the kind of guy that is chasing to be the best, like a Ray Lewis or Jerry Rice... and that might make him better than his projected ceiling would have you believe... because it can't account for that kind of heart. There is nothing content about Matthews' as an option. I truly think he's going to be the best this class has to offer. I think he's going to be special... not because of overwhelming physical skills- like Sammy Watkins, but because he will want it more than everyone else. That extra will to be great... only a few guys have it.. and I think Matthews might be one of them.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Taken from the NFL Draft forum. I think it's safe to say we know who is going at our 1st round pick.

Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
Quote:
Vanderbilt senior WR Jordan Matthews was "spectacular" at Tuesday's Senior Bowl practice, according to NFL.com's Chase Goodbread.
Matthews was upset with himself for dropping some passes on Monday, and he made up for it the next day. "He will go into the briar patch, take his hits and keep on ticking," NFL Media analyst Charles Davis said after Tuesday's practice. "I never worry about that part with him. Obviously, people are going to want to know what he runs (at the combine). All in all, I think he's a big-time prospect. Let's face it: How many quarterbacks threw to him at Vanderbilt? Try to name them all. Yet everyone knew he was coming each week in the SEC." Matthews remained after practice to work on red-zone throws with Derek Carr. He's a coach's dream


http://www.rotoworld.com/sports/cfb/nfl-draft

Yup. I read this earlier. And those are some of the intangibles that impressed me to the point where I wanted him in the first round back when he was a solid 2nd round guy... and why I have him as my top receiver... for the Ravens. Sammy Watkins might be the better receiver overall (considering other teams), but considering Torrey Smith in the equation, I think Matthews is the best WR in this draft. He is possessed of everything you look for.

He might not test well in speed, but he's sudden... will probably run a 6.9 cone drill. And he's going to have an insane vertical.. probably 37 1/2"+ IMO. He can get up with the best of them. I like your Jordy Nelson comparison, but before that he reminded me of a poor man's AJ Green with how consistent he is, yet a threat at every level of the defense with his suddenness, fluidity, versatility, and long frame.

Above all, it's his mentality/passion that most impresses me. I think Jordan Matthews is the kind of guy that is chasing to be the best, like a Ray Lewis or Jerry Rice... and that might make him better than his projected ceiling would have you believe... because it can't account for that kind of heart. There is nothing content about Matthews' as an option. I truly think he's going to be the best this class has to offer. I think he's going to be special... not because of overwhelming physical skills- like Sammy Watkins, but because he will want it more than everyone else. That extra will to be great... only a few guys have it.. and I think Matthews might be one of them.


I can definitely agree with all of that. While I don't think he'll be the best of the class (as I think inevitably one of the higher ceiling guys pans out), I think he has the highest floor and his ceiling is still a very, very good player. I truly do feel he's a Jordy Nelson clone -- guy with size, enough speed to get deep, great route running and overall just wants to work.

Not sure if you (or anyone else) has looked up his background -- but his mother is Jerry Rice's 1st cousin. I'm sure he's had his fair share of conversations with Jerry and maybe that's who he's modeled his work ethic after.

Matthews, based on this knowledge (I had only really looked at tape of him) seems like a classic Ravens pick. Not the biggest, not the fastest, but a guy who wants to work.
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hemm68


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as the double dipping at wr goes I think a Matthews campanaro or gallon duo with a value tight end such as Arthur Lynch would be ideal.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:

I can definitely agree with all of that. While I don't think he'll be the best of the class (as I think inevitably one of the higher ceiling guys pans out), I think he has the highest floor and his ceiling is still a very, very good player. I truly do feel he's a Jordy Nelson clone -- guy with size, enough speed to get deep, great route running and overall just wants to work.

Not sure if you (or anyone else) has looked up his background -- but his mother is Jerry Rice's 1st cousin. I'm sure he's had his fair share of conversations with Jerry and maybe that's who he's modeled his work ethic after.

Matthews, based on this knowledge (I had only really looked at tape of him) seems like a classic Ravens pick. Not the biggest, not the fastest, but a guy who wants to work.

I'm like NBT to Moss when it comes to Jordan Matthews... I know all. Cool Laughing

diamondbull424 wrote:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Official 2014 Draft Prospects thread...

diamondbull424 wrote:

WR
Jordan Matthews: 6'2.5" 205 lbs, est 40- 4.49, est vert- 36", senior/2014
Another interesting WR prospect. For a tall guy he has nice quick feet to get in and out of his breaks. His hands are a little more inconsistent than I'd like. He puts in nice effort in run blocking. Does a nice job of giving a slight push to defender to create space when the ball is in the air and he's tightly covered. Definitely not a #1 option, but has a similar game to Tandon Doss, but with more speed. Could be an interesting option if he falls to the late 2nd or later. Looks to have the potential of a above average to good #2 WR option.

Just wanted to update my thoughts on Matthews.

His hands definitely aren't inconsistent. I must've watched some of his worst tape. The guy has some of the best hands in this draft. And I also reject my earlier statement that he can't be a #1 option. I think he has definite top 10-15 potential.

The more I watch of Matthews, the more I'm impressed. He's not the redzone threat that I think we need, but boy this guy is a machine. He's not a beast, he's not physically overwhelming like an Andre Johnson or a Calvin Johnson, but he's a machine... like Derrick Mason. Somehow this guy just finds a way to keep producing.

He's so nimble and shifty for a 6'3" receiver. He reminds me Reggie Wayne. Guys that tall usually aren't so nimble and shifty. He's not quite the gazelle as AJ Green, but he's definitely agile. And he runs some awesome routes.

He does possess a similar game to Tandon Doss, but he's unquestionably better... he's faster, more agile, stronger, and uses his body better. He also looks slightly taller and much more tone and muscular. It probably also helps that Matthews has NFL bloodlines... he's Jerry Rice's second cousin.

Matthews would definitely be a very good compliment to Torrey Smith as an outside threat. And I think I underestimated his leaping ability. I think he might very well have a vertical somewhere between 37"- 40".

Jordan Matthews: 6'2 3/4" 206 lbs, est 40- 4.49, est vert- 38.5", 3-cone: 6.98, short shuttle: 4.20, senior/2014... Early 2nd rd grade.

Could you imagine if Matthews WERE to end up as an elite receiver in the league somehow though? Talk about receiver bloodlines.

That would rival the Calvin Johnson/Andre Johnson bloodlines. Only as opposed to getting a beastly receiver, you get one that is automatic- incredibly consistent... A machine.

Would be the Decepticon and Autobot line of receiver models in the NFL as we know it. Smile
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hemm68 wrote:
As far as the double dipping at wr goes I think a Matthews campanaro or gallon duo with a value tight end such as Arthur Lynch would be ideal.

If we're going to double dip, I'd prefer it to be for two overwhelming talents. I have no issue with Marlon Brown, Aaron Mellette, and Deonte Thompson. Those guys are going to compete for our 3rd and 4th receiver spots, definitely. I see no reason to add another borderline talent in their talent bubble... unless we're talking an elite return man that would thus present great value... I'm not particularly familiar with Campanaro, outside of him apparently shining at the senior bowl, so perhaps he brings that to the table. But if he doesn't then I can't say I'm the biggest fan of the idea. A guy like Jared Abbredaris however, I know was a great collegiate return man before the coaches pulled the plug. He, on the other hand, might be worth a double dip if he falls far enough in the draft.
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MilleniumD2000


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you guys think about Lamarcus Joyner in the first? His size is questionable but the guy is relentless and a playmaker. I think he would fit perfect on our defense. I think we could trade back into the early 20s get our 4th and 5th back or possibly a 3rd and pick him up.

Also, if we don't get a receiver in the first two rounds I think we should go after De'Anthony Thomas in the third if he's there. He could take over for Jacoby on returns and he would be perfect in the slot.
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