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Official 2014 Draft Prospects thread...
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 22402
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcfields wrote:
Quote:
The Ravens found a way to go 8-8 due to better team management and better overall depth. Same way we managed to stay afloat last year after losing Suggs for the first half of the year, Ray, Webb, etc.


That is probably the most valid point in this discussion. The Ravens depth kept them alive for the Super Bowl run. The best reason Atlanta should have kept their picks. You are right.

Quote:
Same goes with Oakland after overreacting and making the Carson Palmer trade. Same way KC is going to be with the Alex Smith trade. To be a consistent contender, you need to build your team through the draft, not by giving picks away. Mid to late round picks are one thing, but when you are giving away future picks, you begin to hurt your team


That Palmer trade was horrific and one of the worst trades I've ever seen. It's a bit ironic that Hue Jackson is now Cincinnati's offensive coordinator, isn't it? Hmm...

I agree 100%. You must build your team through the draft. Look at the Deadskins. I've said for years that Daniel Snyder is allergic to draft picks and look at that team. Overpaid veterans, no youth to speak of which means no annual improvement, no good players at entry level salaries, more injuries typical of older rosters... That team is the nightmare of nightmares. And because they mortgaged their future, the Rams are only a few pieces away from being a playoff team... which might be next year. The Redskins? That team won't see the playoffs again for at least 3 seasons.

And last but certainly not least, I apologize. I stand guilty of misreading your post. Just as I've done for years with emails, threads, posts, texts and the like. If you would have seen the goofy smile on my face when I was writing my "Sammy Watkins Tiger Beat Crush of the Year" post, you would have seen that I was not serious. In the same vein, I should have known you were not castigating me. I have always said, "Praise publicly, scorn privately." Therefore, right here before the FF world, I'm sorry for taking your post as if it was personal.

Sammy Watkins. Sammy Watkins.


Not a problem, buddy. It happens to the best of us.

If we draft Sammy, let's make a pact to get extremely drunk that night to celebrate.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
I want to throw out a couple of scenarios that I don't really agree with but are possible and would change the shape of what we think Baltimore's draft will look like.

- What if the team is really high on Wagner? With the likelihood that Monroe is brought back and Osemele returns healthy the on spot on the offensive line that might be addressed is center. Offensive tackle might not be anything more than a depth need in the front office's eyes leaving them open to investing elsewhere early on.

- What if Osemele moves back to right tackle? Something that caught my eye at the end of the year press conference was Newsome mentioning getting bigger inside but nothing about offensive tackle as an area of improvement. Maybe they really are thinking of getting a big guard in addition to a bigger center. Should we be looking at the top ranked offensive guards instead of the top ranked offensive tackles for Baltimore's higher picks?

Just some things that have been running through my mind lately. Free agency is going to be huge too for the Ravens this year in terms of how it affects their draft and I'm starting to be happy that they have a little extra time to figure it out.


I think the "getting bigger" aspect was more towards C than OG. KO is a big dude himself (6'5, 330lbs), so I think his return helps fit that goal especially over Shipley (6'1, 309lbs). Gradkowski is of ok size for an OL standard (6'3, 300lbs) but it seems we want to go bigger. Jamaal Jackson, who started under Castillo from 2006-2009 was 6'4 330lbs. I think that's the kind of guy they are looking for to play at C. Have a lot of beef in the middle and establish that power run game again.
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dcfields


Joined: 28 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
If we draft Sammy, let's make a pact to get extremely drunk that night to celebrate.


I'm buyin'!
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
I think the "getting bigger" aspect was more towards C than OG. KO is a big dude himself (6'5, 330lbs), so I think his return helps fit that goal especially over Shipley (6'1, 309lbs). Gradkowski is of ok size for an OL standard (6'3, 300lbs) but it seems we want to go bigger. Jamaal Jackson, who started under Castillo from 2006-2009 was 6'4 330lbs. I think that's the kind of guy they are looking for to play at C. Have a lot of beef in the middle and establish that power run game again.


I'm pretty sure that's what it means too but I was referring to nothing being mentioned about offensive tackle as opposed to Osemele being a natural upgrade there when he comes back. It might be construed as they're not worried about offensive tackle and Osemele moving back there could be the reason why, leaving Shipley and Gradkwoski as interior lineman who can be somewhat easily replaced with bigger players (anybody in the league at that position would be bigger than Shipley I think).
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hemm68


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody been watching the senior bowl. Weston Richburg center out of Colorado state has looked very impressive.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hemm68 wrote:
Anybody been watching the senior bowl. Weston Richburg center out of Colorado state has looked very impressive.


Interesting. Haven't been paying much attention to it at all (crushed with work recently). Seems like a midround guy, it will be interesting to see how stocks move following the SB and combine. I think my ideal draft order is starting to fluctuate a little bit. I have been of the mind that are 4 biggest needs/targets are WR, C, OT, and TE (maybe FS as well). Recently TE has moved down the list a bit and I think if everything shakes out perfectly, I'd like to see us go in that exact order rounds 1-4 (assuming at least one 4th round comp). C and OT could be flipped. I think as far as OT goes it would be nice to get a guy who could potentially play either side, but may need some time to sit. Then I would like to see us get a cheaper vet, possibly someone cut after June 1. Doesn't need to be a spectacular guy, just someone who is solid, can run block, and will hit his assignments. Maybe he's not great, but won't blow things or be heavily penalized. I'd be pretty happy with a line of:

LT - Monroe
LG - KO
OC - 2nd round rookie
RG - Yanda
RT - Vet FA

BN - Rookie OT (RT/LT)
BN - Wagner (OT/OG)
BN - Gradkowski (OG/OC)
BN -Jensen (OG/OC)
BN - Reid (OT/OG)?

Have we traditionally carried 9 or 10 OL? I'm guessing someone would be gone from that bench group (Reid maybe if we draft an OT)...
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the usual amount has been 7 or 8. Baltimore has had as still has a lot of guys with positional versatility so that helps. I'd expect them to come back down to that range next season.
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hemm68


Joined: 24 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
hemm68 wrote:
Anybody been watching the senior bowl. Weston Richburg center out of Colorado state has looked very impressive.


Interesting. Haven't been paying much attention to it at all (crushed with work recently). Seems like a midround guy, it will be interesting to see how stocks move following the SB and combine. I think my ideal draft order is starting to fluctuate a little bit. I have been of the mind that are 4 biggest needs/targets are WR, C, OT, and TE (maybe FS as well). Recently TE has moved down the list a bit and I think if everything shakes out perfectly, I'd like to see us go in that exact order rounds 1-4 (assuming at least one 4th round comp). C and OT could be flipped. I think as far as OT goes it would be nice to get a guy who could potentially play either side, but may need some time to sit. Then I would like to see us get a cheaper vet, possibly someone cut after June 1. Doesn't need to be a spectacular guy, just someone who is solid, can run block, and will hit his assignments. Maybe he's not great, but won't blow things or be heavily penalized. I'd be pretty happy with a line of:

LT - Monroe
LG - KO
OC - 2nd round rookie
RG - Yanda
RT - Vet FA

BN - Rookie OT (RT/LT)
BN - Wagner (OT/OG)
BN - Gradkowski (OG/OC)
BN -Jensen (OG/OC)
BN - Reid (OT/OG)?

Have we traditionally carried 9 or 10 OL? I'm guessing someone would be gone from that bench group (Reid maybe if we draft an OT)...


Ot and wr are so deep I would be happy either way. Morgan Moses has also looked good. I'm starting to like Jordan Matthews at that first pick. He's just so silly smooth as a route runner. Need to see more one on ones with him though to really get a gauge on his separation ability.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hemm68 wrote:

Ot and wr are so deep I would be happy either way. Morgan Moses has also looked good. I'm starting to like Jordan Matthews at that first pick. He's just so silly smooth as a route runner. Need to see more one on ones with him though to really get a gauge on his separation ability.

You should be ashamed of yourself... I've been hyping Matthews for quite some time now... and you're just starting to like this idea? For shame. Wink

But yeah, only if we trade down. I don't think any receiver is worth the 16th pick for us.

Now if say we can trade down 8-10 spots and pick up a high 3rd in the process... that would definitely make it worth it IMO.
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hemm68


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
hemm68 wrote:

Ot and wr are so deep I would be happy either way. Morgan Moses has also looked good. I'm starting to like Jordan Matthews at that first pick. He's just so silly smooth as a route runner. Need to see more one on ones with him though to really get a gauge on his separation ability.

You should be ashamed of yourself... I've been hyping Matthews for quite some time now... and you're just starting to like this idea? For shame. Wink

But yeah, only if we trade down. I don't think any receiver is worth the 16th pick for us.

Now if say we can trade down 8-10 spots and pick up a high 3rd in the process... that would definitely make it worth it IMO.


Haha. Well I got the idea of Jordan Matthews from you so kudos sir. Unfortunately it was later in the season so I only got to see two of his games. Really wanted to see him this week before I got on your bandwagon.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hemm68 wrote:
Anybody been watching the senior bowl. Weston Richburg center out of Colorado state has looked very impressive.

Richburg is an interest option.

While Ozzie definitely mentioned getting bigger in the interior, Richburg has exceptional size and leverage ability for anchoring. I most love his experience at the position. He's started 49 consecutive games at the position. And that's what we most lacked with Gino Gradkowski. A guy who was experienced that could be counted on to make the line calls. All rookies have an adjustment period. But a guy who has started that many games at center is definitely going to be a better option than someone who only started half that.
=========================================

On another note Walterfootball usually list who they see teams talking to after practice to set up a meeting with, here is the list for the senior bowl to this point:

Alabama WR, Kevin Norwood
Florida State LB, Telvin Smith
Wisconsin tight end, Jacob Pedersen
Mississippi State guard, Gabe Jackson
Illinois linebacker, Jonathan Brown
Missouri outside linebacker, Michael Sam
Rice kicker, Chris Boswell
Wisconsin linebacker, Chris Borland
Utah State center, Tyler Larsen
Texas wide receiver, Mike Davis
Vanderbilt safety, Kenny Ladler

It's worth noting that Cody Larsen, a DE on our practice squad, is the elder brother to Tyler Larsen... so there's a connection to the Ravens organization already. And like Richburg, Larsen has plenty of experience starting... more experience, in fact. Larsen has started 51 consecutive games for Utah State and was voted a three-time All Conference Selection for the mount west. He's currently projected as a late 4th round selection by CBSsports/NFLdraftscout. I think he's definitely a target for the Ravens on the 3rd day of the draft.

Some other things worth mentioning. Ozzie mentioned getting bigger inside... well Gabe Jackson would certainly classify as that. At 6'3 1/2" 339 lbs... that certainly classifies as even an upgrade in size over Kelechi Osemele (6'5 1/2" 333 lbs). Jackson is an All-SEC First teammer and a beast inside. Has a 3rd round grade on him. And he started at LG at Mississippi State as well, thus moving to LG would be far less an adjustment for him than when we moved KO there. So considering we were considering moving KO over to LT and back out to RT to start the 2013 season, I think it's very possible we move him back out to that spot in 2014. If we do, Jackson would be an ideal addition to our power ZBS.

Chris Boreland isn't what one would normally think of when looking at as a thumper, but he is built like a FB. With his instincts and explosiveness, he could do well in a role next to Arthur Brown. For someone his size, he doesn't struggle at all diagnosing plays.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm almost certain that the Ravens met with Jordan Matthews too.
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dcfields


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Telvin Smith was a tackling machine at Florida State. He was always around the ball, improved every year and played big in big games. A bit undersized but so was 52 when he came out. I'm not saying... Just saying Telvin was fun to watch. Great instincts and a vital cog on FSU's defense. Go Noles!

Richburg is a very interesting prospect. One that didn't play all those games in Division II (or whatever they call it now).

Gabe Jackson might even work his way into the 2nd round.

Wow! If the Ravens re-sign Monroe and move Osemele out to RT, then the 1st and 2nd round picks (or 1st and 3rd) could be used on skill players. That's starting to look like the best case scenario right there.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
I'm almost certain that the Ravens met with Jordan Matthews too.

Are you sure it wasn't Kenny Ladler? I don't know, just wondering where you saw this... because, I don't want to get my hopes up. Very Happy

dcfields wrote:
Telvin Smith was a tackling machine at Florida State. He was always around the ball, improved every year and played big in big games. A bit undersized but so was 52 when he came out. I'm not saying... Just saying Telvin was fun to watch. Great instincts and a vital cog on FSU's defense. Go Noles!

Richburg is a very interesting prospect. One that didn't play all those games in Division II (or whatever they call it now).

Gabe Jackson might even work his way into the 2nd round.

Wow! If the Ravens re-sign Monroe and move Osemele out to RT, then the 1st and 2nd round picks (or 1st and 3rd) could be used on skill players. That's starting to look like the best case scenario right there.

If that's a reference to Gino Gradkowski, which I believe it is (not sure), then it was previous'y division 1AA, but not is called football division 1 championship division (playoff system), whereas the big conferences are in division 1 bowl division (BCS bowl games)... which both differ from division 2, that's where Brandon Williams came from.. which is an even greater difference in talent. Another D2 talent of note was Amini Silatolu.

In terms of the rest of the post... Gabe Jackson could definitely move up into 2nd round consideration. The top guards seem to be pretty tightly packed and is still room for some separation. That said, he's currently projected as the 5th best OG... the 4th (Larry Warford) and 5th (Brian Winters) OGs in last draft went 65/72 respectively. We have pick #80... so if things go a similar way.. we might still need a little help to get Jackson in the 3rd.

Right now I'd hope for a combination of 3rd/4th picks of a) Richburg/Hurst or b) Jackson/Larsen.

We could then use that mid-1st to go BPA or trade down then go best WR and the 2nd pick on a best WR available or if the 1st is a trade down then BPA. Might be the best shakedown for the draft.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was just looking through some mock drafts and this thought popped into my head...

Depending on the board, do you think it's possible Ravens might double dip at WR in the first two rounds?

Now, I know some of you aren't high on Evans but let's assume we are (because I am and I'm smarter than all of you Wink). He's there at #16 and we scoop him up.

Now, round 2 rolls around and sitting there at our pick is Jordan Matthews. They are different types of receivers that would complement each other rather nicely (and both different from Torrey). What are chances the Ravens scoop up Matthews too? Would you be for/against it if he presented the best value available?
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