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Redskins HC Shanahan: RGIII will start week 1 against Eagles
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Yes Thai, but at the same time while Rust is an issue that I understand. My main concern is injury. And to have him risk injury in a meaningless game is a far bigger deal to me than for RG3 to look rusty in his first game action in 9 months.


Yup. Unfortunately that is the other side of the coin.
Yes, but he'll have to deal with that coin in week 1 or in week 6 after the bye week no matter what. That was my point. No matter when he starts playing, that rust is going to be there.


ANNNNNDDDD now we're back to talking about rust. If the plan is to play him Week 6 then there's nothing you can do to prevent rust. If the plan is to play him Week 1 then there is...

Which was TheGreek's whole point.
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Marcus21


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Yes Thai, but at the same time while Rust is an issue that I understand. My main concern is injury. And to have him risk injury in a meaningless game is a far bigger deal to me than for RG3 to look rusty in his first game action in 9 months.


Yup. Unfortunately that is the other side of the coin.
Yes, but he'll have to deal with that coin in week 1 or in week 6 after the bye week no matter what. That was my point. No matter when he starts playing, that rust is going to be there.


ANNNNNDDDD now we're back to talking about rust. If the plan is to play him Week 6 then there's nothing you can do to prevent rust. If the plan is to play him Week 1 then there is...

Which was TheGreek's whole point.


Im not sure why people are making such a big deal about Griff playing in the preseason.....There is nothing good that can happen for Griff in the preseason. He is going to get work in 11 on 11 drills in practice. His timing should be fine. Its not like 2 series against Deffenses that arent going 100% is going to make a world of difference!! Griff will be fine and ready for week one! The dude is only 7 months out of surgery....I dont care how good he feels, there is no way I take a chance with him in a game that doesnt count!!! Shanny is doing the right thing!!!
I also love that Griff wants to be out there. Thats what he should be doing!!! Griff is a gladiator!! His job to play. He needs shanny to reign him in anf do what best for Griff and the skins...thats his job!!
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus21 wrote:
Im not sure why people are making such a big deal about Griff playing in the preseason.....There is nothing good that can happen for Griff in the preseason.


Except knock game rust off. Only way that comes off is in a game. Other good things that can happen is to get timing down for game speed with your receivers. Again, practice can only simulate this.

Marcus21 wrote:
He is going to get work in 11 on 11 drills in practice. His timing should be fine.


See above.

Marcus21 wrote:
Its not like 2 series against Deffenses that arent going 100% is going to make a world of difference!!


You don't think the #1's in two series aren't going 100%? Those guys are trying to prove they belong as starters. Its not like the Pro Bowl.

Marcus21 wrote:
Griff will be fine and ready for week one! The dude is only 7 months out of surgery....


He might play Week 1. But fine is a nebulous term.

Hence why you also added that he's only 7 months out of surgery.

Marcus21 wrote:
I dont care how good he feels, there is no way I take a chance with him in a game that doesnt count!!!


Yes, we all understand that. But when game rust is on you and you blow the game because of a lack of being able to get out and get comfortable with your #1's in the preseason, what say you then? Remember, Peyton Manning had a ton of rust at the beginning of last season and it showed. He performed badly (in relation to how he usually performed).


Marcus21 wrote:
I also love that Griff wants to be out there. Thats what he should be doing!!! Griff is a gladiator!! His job to play. He needs shanny to reign him in anf do what best for Griff and the skins...thats his job!!


Here we agree. I love that he wants to be out there. I also agree that Shanny is the guy who needs to rein him in.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Yes Thai, but at the same time while Rust is an issue that I understand. My main concern is injury. And to have him risk injury in a meaningless game is a far bigger deal to me than for RG3 to look rusty in his first game action in 9 months.


Yup. Unfortunately that is the other side of the coin.
Yes, but he'll have to deal with that coin in week 1 or in week 6 after the bye week no matter what. That was my point. No matter when he starts playing, that rust is going to be there.


ANNNNNDDDD now we're back to talking about rust. If the plan is to play him Week 6 then there's nothing you can do to prevent rust. If the plan is to play him Week 1 then there is...

Which was TheGreek's whole point.
sure is but.... It's a meaningless game. I mean how much rust is Rg3 going to shake off in a series?

It's pointless to play him in the preseason
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the patriots nearly lost Tom Brady in a scrimmage today against the buccaneers when Nate Solder fell into his surgically replaced knee.

Case closed! Exibit A as to why RG3 should not play this preseason. No way should they risk it just to shake a little rust off, which is going to be there no matter which is his first game starting this season.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
So the patriots nearly lost Tom Brady in a scrimmage today against the buccaneers when Nate Solder fell into his surgically replaced knee.

Case closed! Exibit A as to why RG3 should not play this preseason. No way should they risk it just to shake a little rust off, which is going to be there no matter which is his first game starting this season.


I'm not sure if it's case closed, but the Brady injury certainly strengthens Shanahan's hand. He can point to New England and say "Tom Brady is as vital to the Patriots as Griffin is to ours" (*) as a reason to keep Griffin out.




(*) Flashback to SAT analogies there! (and I have a feeling that the vast majority of the board has absolutely no idea what I'm referring to)
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
So the patriots nearly lost Tom Brady in a scrimmage today against the buccaneers when Nate Solder fell into his surgically replaced knee.

Case closed! Exibit A as to why RG3 should not play this preseason. No way should they risk it just to shake a little rust off, which is going to be there no matter which is his first game starting this season.


You're absolutely right Turtle. Brady got injured...in practice.

So obviously RG3 shouldn't even practice now. Why take the chance he'll injure his knee in a meaningless practice??
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Marcus21


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
So the patriots nearly lost Tom Brady in a scrimmage today against the buccaneers when Nate Solder fell into his surgically replaced knee.

Case closed! Exibit A as to why RG3 should not play this preseason. No way should they risk it just to shake a little rust off, which is going to be there no matter which is his first game starting this season.


You're absolutely right Turtle. Brady got injured...in practice.

So obviously RG3 shouldn't even practice now. Why take the chance he'll injure his knee in a meaningless practice??


At least we are being adults about it!!!
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
So the patriots nearly lost Tom Brady in a scrimmage today against the buccaneers when Nate Solder fell into his surgically replaced knee.

Case closed! Exibit A as to why RG3 should not play this preseason. No way should they risk it just to shake a little rust off, which is going to be there no matter which is his first game starting this season.


You're absolutely right Turtle. Brady got injured...in practice.

So obviously RG3 shouldn't even practice now. Why take the chance he'll injure his knee in a meaningless practice??
Actually, he got injured in a scrimmage against another team. Similar to a preseason game where it's one of the first times teams get to hit other teams.

No doubt something bad could happen anytime, RG3 could injur his knee getting out of the bath tub but why put him in harms way for a meaningless game?

No one has come up with a good answer to that, other than to say he'll shake off some rust. Well how much rust does one really shake off in a series or 2 of a preseason game?

I'd say little to none. He's going to be rusty no matter when he plays his first full game in the regular season, whether that is week 1 or week 16. All QBs are a little bit rusty week 1 because they haven't played a full game since January.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
So the patriots nearly lost Tom Brady in a scrimmage today against the buccaneers when Nate Solder fell into his surgically replaced knee.

Case closed! Exibit A as to why RG3 should not play this preseason. No way should they risk it just to shake a little rust off, which is going to be there no matter which is his first game starting this season.


You're absolutely right Turtle. Brady got injured...in practice.

So obviously RG3 shouldn't even practice now. Why take the chance he'll injure his knee in a meaningless practice??
Actually, he got injured in a scrimmage against another team. Similar to a preseason game where it's one of the first times teams get to hit other teams.


No. Scrimmages are not similar to preseason games. Most scrimmages are extremely toned down and scripted. Preseason games are too. But scrimmages are barely indistinguishable from a normal practice where players get to hit each other. The only difference is that there is another team there. Still same types of restrictions in scrimmages as in practice (no demolishing the QB, etc...). I've seen tons of them with the Redskins and Steelers. There's no way you can possibly say that an NFL scrimmage is anything close to a preseason game.


turtle28 wrote:
No doubt something bad could happen anytime, RG3 could injur his knee getting out of the bath tub but why put him in harms way for a meaningless game?


Likewise for practice then...he could get injured in practice too. Best not to let him practice then, I guess. Right??

turtle28 wrote:
No one has come up with a good answer to that, other than to say he'll shake off some rust. Well how much rust does one really shake off in a series or 2 of a preseason game?


If it were up to me, he'd be playing at least two games. A few series in one and at least a quarter in another. But even if its two series, you cannot fully test that knee until you do it against competition coming at you full speed in a game situation. You cannot fully test that knee unless you have 250lb LBs on your back trying to take your head off. You don't get that in practice and you don't get it in scrimmages where mostly tackling a QB is verboten (you can hit him, touch him,etc... and then the typically blow the whistle as a "sack" and move to the next play).

turtle28 wrote:
All QBs are a little bit rusty week 1 because they haven't played a full game since January.


Yes, those other QBs have at least played in 3 (or 4) preseason games. Guess how much more rust a QB who misses the entire slate of preseason games is going to have??

Who knows...maybe he doesn't need to shake it off. Maybe he's just that good. But experience teaches me (especially watching Peyton last year) that missing time makes you extremely rusty.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus21 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
So the patriots nearly lost Tom Brady in a scrimmage today against the buccaneers when Nate Solder fell into his surgically replaced knee.

Case closed! Exibit A as to why RG3 should not play this preseason. No way should they risk it just to shake a little rust off, which is going to be there no matter which is his first game starting this season.


You're absolutely right Turtle. Brady got injured...in practice.

So obviously RG3 shouldn't even practice now. Why take the chance he'll injure his knee in a meaningless practice??


At least we are being adults about it!!!


Correct. I'm just using that line of thinking Turtle exhibited and bringing it to its logical, and predictably absurd, conclusion.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well we were acting like adults till that comment.

Rg3 isn't ready to participate in games Thai, you know this. I don't understand how you can come to this conclusion that we should be playing him in preseason games. He hasn't been cleared to do so. Actually, Shanahan said he hasn't even started participating "fully" in every part of practice yet yesterday.

Everyone used to want to make sure he was 100% healthy going into the season, figures as the preseason has gone on, some have changed their opinion on that.

Ironic that its not me modifying my opinion this time. I modify my positions based off of new facts that come about or because situations change. This time posters are changing their opinions based off of assumptions that Rg3 will be healthy enough to play in a week or 2.

Smh Confused
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Well we were acting like adults till that comment.


Right...because adults never use sarcasm. Hey...what this emoticon is for on the board?? Unsure...

Rolling Eyes

The fact is you didn't like it because it exposes the weakness in your logic.

turtle28 wrote:
Rg3 isn't ready to participate in games Thai, you know this. I don't understand how you can come to this conclusion that we should be playing him in preseason games. He hasn't been cleared to do so. Actually, Shanahan said he hasn't even started participating "fully" in every part of practice yet yesterday.


Correct. So we're now heading into the 2nd preseason game and he has limited 11 on 11 drills, no OTAs, no minicamp? Sorry, then my gut tells me he's not ready for Week 1.


turtle28 wrote:
Everyone used to want to make sure he was 100% healthy going into the season, figures as the preseason has gone on, some have changed their opinion on that.


My opinion has always been to start him in October. But I'm commenting on the fact that if he's going to play Week 1 (and the Redskins are therefore going to roll the dice on rushing a QB back too early), that they can get him some game reps where its not going to kill us if he throws an INT.

turtle28 wrote:
Ironic that its not me modifying my opinion this time. I modify my positions based off of new facts that come about or because situations change. This time posters are changing their opinions based off of assumptions that Rg3 will be healthy enough to play in a week or 2.

Smh Confused


See above. I have not modified my position. Again, my position is that were I the coach I wouldn't start him until after the bye. But since the Redskins (who really get to make the decisions) are going to start him, they seem to think he's going to be ready. If he's going to be ready for Week 1, like is reported, then he should be ready to knock the rust off in a preseason game.

See? In the world where I get to make the decisions, he doesn't start until Week 6. At that point, I will take a rusty QB who is 100% healed.

In the world where I don't get to make the decisions (this one), I'd rather see him knock the rust off before the games mean something.

Its called when the scenarios change, so does my answer. Sort of like:

Scenario 1: No way I will jump out of an airplane with a parachute
Scenario 2: I will jump out if the plane is one fire and going to crash.

Even though my official position is that I do not want to parachute out of a plane

Not sure why this is so difficult to understand. But then again...
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You did not explain it like that before. I don't remember you saying I'll take a 100% rusty starting QB, as if you know he won't be 100% week 1.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thai, you make some interesting points, but I think you're position all comes down to is a rusty RG3 better than a prepared Kirk Cousins? You have the opinion Cousins would be better, in addition to further protecting Griffin's knee. Turtle has the opinion that a rusty RG3 is still better than a prepared Kirk Cousins. There's really no evidence to support either stance its just a matter of opinion.

I would like to point out however that holding Griffin out until Week 5 would not make him any less "rusty" than he is now. He's already been participating in practices he just hasnt been playing in games. By holding him out he still wouldn't be playing in games hence the rust would never come off.

I think if he's healthy (which all reports seem to indicate he is) he should play Week 1. Even if he's rusty better to get it out of the way early than midseason. I don't see how prolonging his play improves his "rust" factor at all. The only reason I could see for sitting him until Week 5 would be to further protect his knee, which is probably a decision best left to medical experts.
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