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Cutdown Day Thread (53 Man Roster p. 13)
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jshowers


Joined: 03 May 2013
Posts: 20588
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
Thielen has much more potential to actually be an NFL player than LaMark IMO. LaMark is in the Martin Nance category in my mind, where if he doesn't play at receiver he's not going to do anything else. Thielen can contribute on special teams as well as being an excellent slot receiver.

Thielen is much better technically than Brown and a better athlete than he's given credit for. LaMark is also never going to be anything more than a #5/6 receiver, and those are the guys you need to play special teams.

Just my .02, and I had a good chance to watch both.


You sure you're not wearing Purple Glasses a bit there? Or hometown, white guy, Vince Papale from Invincible glasses?

He's not cut out to be "excellent" at anything in the NFL. If he makes our roster or any roster, it's going to be because he scrapped his way on, became a favorite of a particular coach, or the team was THIN at WR.

Don't get me wrong, I like what I have seen and heard from Adam, but he isn't going to be any type of differene maker in the NFL.

LaMark and Summers have that potential, at least a little bit IMO.
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rpmwr19


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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Location: Stillwater, MN
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, please don't bring up race in these discussions as it's against forum policy.

Second, excellent may have gone a little bit overboard; I do have a pension for hyperbole. It also has nothing to do with him being a hometown kid, and more to do with what I've physically seen from both of them. There is a reason pundits that cover the team have him as a bubble roster player, and Brown as someone who is behind him and not even a lock to be a practice squad player again.

Why do you think the only way he makes a roster is because he "scrapped" himself on it? He's a technical receiver that has a pension to make a highlight real grab, and get noticed. Much more than what LaMark Brown has done, and Brown has had many more opportunities. He's shown nothing that would even indicate he can be a difference maker at the NFL level. He's big, but he's very slow for the position.

EDIT: On the topic of measureables... Thielen's 6.39 3-cone drill would have been tops at the combine this year, and top the recent best of Jeff Maehl from 2011.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zme8PcmAVhk
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Klomp


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thielen was one of the best WRs in NSIC history. LaMark had 31 catches in his only season at the level (in same season, Thielen had 62 catches as a sophomore).

If Brown can't dominate at the NSIC level, I wouldn't say he's got the potential at this level.
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marshpit23


Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pre-Pre season 53 man roster prediction:

QB Christian Ponder
QB Matt Cassel

RB Adrian Peterson
RB Toby Gerhart
RB Bradley Randle (PR/KR)

FB Jerome Felton

WR Greg Jennings
WR Jerome Simpson
WR Jarius Wright
WR Cordarelle Patterson (KR/PR)
WR Stephen Burton
WR Joe Webb (Emergency QB)

TE Kyle Rudolph
TE John Carlson
TE Rhett Ellison (TE/FB)

OT Matt Kalil
OT Phil Loadholt
OT Kevin Murphy
OG Charlie Johnson
OG Brandon Fusco
OG Seth Olsen
OC John Sullivan
OC/OG Joe Berger

DE Jared Allen
DE Brian Robison
DE Everson Griffen
DE D'Aundre Reed

DT Kevin Williams
DT Letroy Guion
DT Fred Evans
DT Sharrif Floyd
DT Christian Ballard

LB Chad Greenway
LB Erin Henderson
LB Marvin Mitchell
LB Desmond Bishop
LB Gerald Hodges
LB Mike Mauti

CB Chris Cook
CB Josh Robinson
CB Xavier Rhodes
CB AJ Jefferson
CB Jacob Lacey
CB Marcus Sherels (PR)
CB Bobby Felder

S Harrison Smith
S Jamarca Sanford
S Mistral Raymond
S Robert Blanton
S Andrew Sendejo

K Blair Walsh

P Jeff Locke

LS Cullen Loeffler


Practice Squad

QB McLeod Bethel-Thompson

WR Rodney Smith
WR Adam Thielen

OG Jeff Baca
OG Travis Bond

DT Everett Dawkins

LB Audie Cole

S Brandon Bishop
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rpmwr19


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly, you would expect a former division one athlete (Kansas State) to dominate at the division two level.

Didn't happen; Thielen was the much better player.
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jshowers


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
Exactly, you would expect a former division one athlete (Kansas State) to dominate at the division two level.

Didn't happen; Thielen was the much better player.


All I'm saying is that I view LaMark as having more long term potential than Thielen. Taking an objective view, LaMark has a WR's skill set with a TE's body. Teams love adding those intriguing mismatch types to practice squads. Also, college production definitely does not equate to NFL production or one player being better than the other in the pros.

Yes, Thielen is quick and has good hands. So was Jeff Maehl, the extremely productive Oregon receiver you referenced. What has Maehl done in the pros..?

Personally, I would LOVE to see Thielen make the team or the practice squad. I played WR and know what it's like to be more of a hard nosed, try hard guy than having great physical talent. He also came from a Minnesota D2 school so I'm really pulling for him. But, taking an objective view when making practice squad predictions, LaMark presents a more intriguing, if less refined, skill set and could be worth more time and investment on the practice squad to see if he can develop those skills to go with his size. I think with Adam Thielen, you know what you're getting and it's a pretty dime-a-dozen player profile.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough,

I'm just of the opposite view. Thielen has far more of a wide receiver skill set than LaMark has ever had IMO, plus he gives you the added value of being a special teams player. With his lack of speed and production it's hard to say LaMark Brown has any potential outside of his size, IMO. At 6'2 and around 200 lbs, Thielen is no small man either.
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Klomp


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jshowers wrote:
I think with Adam Thielen, you know what you're getting and it's a pretty dime-a-dozen player profile.


Be careful not to stereotype him. Watch some of his highlights on youtube (there's a 24-minute video). Some of his catches will surprise you and impress you.
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jshowers


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is good discussion guys. Just wondering, but if you were the coach and chose to stash Thielen on the practice squad, what would be the motive behind it? Do you see him being a contributor as an NFL WR at some point? On the outside? In the slot? Because we have Jennings, Simpson, Patterson, Wright, and Webb/Burton. Where does Thielen fit in and what is his potential role like?
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Klomp


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jshowers wrote:
This is good discussion guys. Just wondering, but if you were the coach and chose to stash Thielen on the practice squad, what would be the motive behind it? Do you see him being a contributor as an NFL WR at some point? On the outside? In the slot? Because we have Jennings, Simpson, Patterson, Wright, and Webb/Burton. Where does Thielen fit in and what is his potential role like?


Keep in mind, Simpson is on a one year deal. I'd be surprised if he's here past that (Jennings/Patterson/Wright is a solid threesome going forward). Thielen is in same category as Webb/Burton. Lower WR who would contribute on special teams.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they were both first year players, I'd be inclined to keep Thielen over Burton.
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jshowers


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
If they were both first year players, I'd be inclined to keep Thielen over Burton.


Why?
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chuck44


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
First of all, please don't bring up race in these discussions as it's against forum policy.

Second, excellent may have gone a little bit overboard; I do have a pension for hyperbole. It also has nothing to do with him being a hometown kid, and more to do with what I've physically seen from both of them. There is a reason pundits that cover the team have him as a bubble roster player, and Brown as someone who is behind him and not even a lock to be a practice squad player again.

Why do you think the only way he makes a roster is because he "scrapped" himself on it? He's a technical receiver that has a pension to make a highlight real grab, and get noticed. Much more than what LaMark Brown has done, and Brown has had many more opportunities. He's shown nothing that would even indicate he can be a difference maker at the NFL level. He's big, but he's very slow for the position.

EDIT: On the topic of measureables... Thielen's 6.39 3-cone drill would have been tops at the combine this year, and top the recent best of Jeff Maehl from 2011.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zme8PcmAVhk

because he is ffrom a small school and wasnt drafted and was given a shot by his hometown team...i dont find the OP assesment far fetched at all
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Purplexing


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope the Vikings don't drop Sherrels for a PR who has better moves but who is not as good at controlling the ball; i.e. more likely to fumble than Sherrels.

PRs might score 1 or 2 TDs a season, which may help win a game or two. But fumbled punts lost could just as easily be decisive.
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Klomp


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purplexing wrote:
I hope the Vikings don't drop Sherrels for a PR who has better moves but who is not as good at controlling the ball; i.e. more likely to fumble than Sherrels.

PRs might score 1 or 2 TDs a season, which may help win a game or two. But fumbled punts lost could just as easily be decisive.


I pretty much agree with this.
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