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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22108
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Laughing


People getting mad at McKenzie for not being competitive yet.


Honestly if al would have done what Reggie has done so far he would be bashed. Track record and reputation means a lot. I'm all for being patient and giving Reggie a chance to do work, but this blind faith some have in him seems a little over the top to me.


this.

we all knew the trenches were our weakest area but they were neglected again.


Neglected how?

Bergstrom, Crawford, Bilukidi, Watson, McGee were all drafted on the lines. They need time to develop.

Brisel, Walker, Hunter, Sims were all signed as FAs.

Just because McK didn't spend his only 1st round pick in the trenches, doesn't mean they were neglected. And it's not like they've had the money to secure top FAs along the lines.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8494
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Laughing


People getting mad at McKenzie for not being competitive yet.


Honestly if al would have done what Reggie has done so far he would be bashed. Track record and reputation means a lot. I'm all for being patient and giving Reggie a chance to do work, but this blind faith some have in him seems a little over the top to me.


this.

we all knew the trenches were our weakest area but they were neglected again.


Neglected how?

Bergstrom, Crawford, Bilukidi, Watson, McGee were all drafted on the lines. They need time to develop.

Brisel, Walker, Hunter, Sims were all signed as FAs.

Just because McK didn't spend his only 1st round pick in the trenches, doesn't mean they were neglected. And it's not like they've had the money to secure top FAs along the lines.

They do need time to develop and I do support Reggie.

However imo there are some decisions that were made that I really do not agree with and that have put us back. And these are things that I didnt agree with when they happened and it would seem they are now coming back to bite us.

Two biggest things hurting what our OL could be is letting Satele go in FA and cutting Barksdale. Both are starting for other teams. While Satele is no pro bowler he always played well and though the whitsle. Not to mention he was a locker room leader. I thought Barksdale did well and should have never been cut.

Our line could be this right now. We could have cut ties with Briesel and paid Desmond Bryant who was probably our biggest defensive loss.

LT: Veldheer, Barksdale
LG: Wiz, Bergstrom
C: Satele, Wiz
RG: Barnes, Nix
RT: Barksdale, Watson


But for now I trust there is a plan and they know better than I do.
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 4399
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Laughing


People getting mad at McKenzie for not being competitive yet.


Honestly if al would have done what Reggie has done so far he would be bashed. Track record and reputation means a lot. I'm all for being patient and giving Reggie a chance to do work, but this blind faith some have in him seems a little over the top to me.


this.

we all knew the trenches were our weakest area but they were neglected again.


Neglected how?

Bergstrom, Crawford, Bilukidi, Watson, McGee were all drafted on the lines. They need time to develop.

Brisel, Walker, Hunter, Sims were all signed as FAs.

Just because McK didn't spend his only 1st round pick in the trenches, doesn't mean they were neglected. And it's not like they've had the money to secure top FAs along the lines.

They do need time to develop and I do support Reggie.

However imo there are some decisions that were made that I really do not agree with and that have put us back. And these are things that I didnt agree with when they happened and it would seem they are now coming back to bite us.

Two biggest things hurting what our OL could be is letting Satele go in FA and cutting Barksdale. Both are starting for other teams. While Satele is no pro bowler he always played well and though the whitsle. Not to mention he was a locker room leader. I thought Barksdale did well and should have never been cut.

Our line could be this right now. We could have cut ties with Briesel and paid Desmond Bryant who was probably our biggest defensive loss.

LT: Veldheer, Barksdale
LG: Wiz, Bergstrom
C: Satele, Wiz
RG: Barnes, Nix
RT: Barksdale, Watson


But for now I trust there is a plan and they know better than I do.


Isn't Barksdale only starting because Saffold has a shoulder injury?
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bitty wrote:
I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8494
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Laughing


People getting mad at McKenzie for not being competitive yet.


Honestly if al would have done what Reggie has done so far he would be bashed. Track record and reputation means a lot. I'm all for being patient and giving Reggie a chance to do work, but this blind faith some have in him seems a little over the top to me.


this.

we all knew the trenches were our weakest area but they were neglected again.


Neglected how?

Bergstrom, Crawford, Bilukidi, Watson, McGee were all drafted on the lines. They need time to develop.

Brisel, Walker, Hunter, Sims were all signed as FAs.

Just because McK didn't spend his only 1st round pick in the trenches, doesn't mean they were neglected. And it's not like they've had the money to secure top FAs along the lines.

They do need time to develop and I do support Reggie.

However imo there are some decisions that were made that I really do not agree with and that have put us back. And these are things that I didnt agree with when they happened and it would seem they are now coming back to bite us.

Two biggest things hurting what our OL could be is letting Satele go in FA and cutting Barksdale. Both are starting for other teams. While Satele is no pro bowler he always played well and though the whitsle. Not to mention he was a locker room leader. I thought Barksdale did well and should have never been cut.

Our line could be this right now. We could have cut ties with Briesel and paid Desmond Bryant who was probably our biggest defensive loss.

LT: Veldheer, Barksdale
LG: Wiz, Bergstrom
C: Satele, Wiz
RG: Barnes, Nix
RT: Barksdale, Watson


But for now I trust there is a plan and they know better than I do.


Isn't Barksdale only starting because Saffold has a shoulder injury?

True but betting they would trade Saffold if the oppertunity presented itself. Actually I watched this last game and Barksdale played the best out of all of them. Confirmed here.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/08/18/refo-gb-stl-preseason-wk-2/
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 4399
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
Dessie wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Laughing


People getting mad at McKenzie for not being competitive yet.


Honestly if al would have done what Reggie has done so far he would be bashed. Track record and reputation means a lot. I'm all for being patient and giving Reggie a chance to do work, but this blind faith some have in him seems a little over the top to me.


this.

we all knew the trenches were our weakest area but they were neglected again.


Neglected how?

Bergstrom, Crawford, Bilukidi, Watson, McGee were all drafted on the lines. They need time to develop.

Brisel, Walker, Hunter, Sims were all signed as FAs.

Just because McK didn't spend his only 1st round pick in the trenches, doesn't mean they were neglected. And it's not like they've had the money to secure top FAs along the lines.

They do need time to develop and I do support Reggie.

However imo there are some decisions that were made that I really do not agree with and that have put us back. And these are things that I didnt agree with when they happened and it would seem they are now coming back to bite us.

Two biggest things hurting what our OL could be is letting Satele go in FA and cutting Barksdale. Both are starting for other teams. While Satele is no pro bowler he always played well and though the whitsle. Not to mention he was a locker room leader. I thought Barksdale did well and should have never been cut.

Our line could be this right now. We could have cut ties with Briesel and paid Desmond Bryant who was probably our biggest defensive loss.

LT: Veldheer, Barksdale
LG: Wiz, Bergstrom
C: Satele, Wiz
RG: Barnes, Nix
RT: Barksdale, Watson


But for now I trust there is a plan and they know better than I do.


Isn't Barksdale only starting because Saffold has a shoulder injury?

True but betting they would trade Saffold if the oppertunity presented itself. Actually I watched this last game and Barksdale played the best out of all of them. Confirmed here.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/08/18/refo-gb-stl-preseason-wk-2/


He didn't impress in his 2 starts last year. Not sure the Rams would trade Saffold on the back of 1 pre season game.
_________________
bitty wrote:
I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked.
#clueless
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14565
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Laughing


People getting mad at McKenzie for not being competitive yet.


Honestly if al would have done what Reggie has done so far he would be bashed. Track record and reputation means a lot. I'm all for being patient and giving Reggie a chance to do work, but this blind faith some have in him seems a little over the top to me.


this.

we all knew the trenches were our weakest area but they were neglected again.
so we draft 1 o lineman per draft yea I guess that not neglecting the line lol

Neglected how?

Bergstrom, Crawford, Bilukidi, Watson, McGee were all drafted on the lines. They need time to develop.

Brisel, Walker, Hunter, Sims were all signed as FAs.

Just because McK didn't spend his only 1st round pick in the trenches, doesn't mean they were neglected. And it's not like they've had the money to secure top FAs along the lines.

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NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 9877
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still love how we're apparently doomed after two pre season games Laughing and comparing Al to Reggie is just dumb, two completely different situations. No crap Al would've been bashed if we still weren't competitive because he's had millions of years to build the team. Reggie has had one year.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8494
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Dessie wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Laughing


People getting mad at McKenzie for not being competitive yet.


Honestly if al would have done what Reggie has done so far he would be bashed. Track record and reputation means a lot. I'm all for being patient and giving Reggie a chance to do work, but this blind faith some have in him seems a little over the top to me.


this.

we all knew the trenches were our weakest area but they were neglected again.


Neglected how?

Bergstrom, Crawford, Bilukidi, Watson, McGee were all drafted on the lines. They need time to develop.

Brisel, Walker, Hunter, Sims were all signed as FAs.

Just because McK didn't spend his only 1st round pick in the trenches, doesn't mean they were neglected. And it's not like they've had the money to secure top FAs along the lines.

They do need time to develop and I do support Reggie.

However imo there are some decisions that were made that I really do not agree with and that have put us back. And these are things that I didnt agree with when they happened and it would seem they are now coming back to bite us.

Two biggest things hurting what our OL could be is letting Satele go in FA and cutting Barksdale. Both are starting for other teams. While Satele is no pro bowler he always played well and though the whitsle. Not to mention he was a locker room leader. I thought Barksdale did well and should have never been cut.

Our line could be this right now. We could have cut ties with Briesel and paid Desmond Bryant who was probably our biggest defensive loss.

LT: Veldheer, Barksdale
LG: Wiz, Bergstrom
C: Satele, Wiz
RG: Barnes, Nix
RT: Barksdale, Watson


But for now I trust there is a plan and they know better than I do.


Isn't Barksdale only starting because Saffold has a shoulder injury?

True but betting they would trade Saffold if the oppertunity presented itself. Actually I watched this last game and Barksdale played the best out of all of them. Confirmed here.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/08/18/refo-gb-stl-preseason-wk-2/


He didn't impress in his 2 starts last year. Not sure the Rams would trade Saffold on the back of 1 pre season game.

Nothing to do with pre-season game. He didnt do bad in his two starts. And Saffold is oft injured and not as powerful of push in the run game. Not to mention he will want LT money when his contract is up. Purely speculation on my part.

So if we focus I why this is important to us it is because at worst Barksdale is St. Louis 3rd OT whereas he wasn't valuable enough for us to keep at all. That is the problem not what I think of Saffold vs Barksdale.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14565
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Laughing


People getting mad at McKenzie for not being competitive yet.


Honestly if al would have done what Reggie has done so far he would be bashed. Track record and reputation means a lot. I'm all for being patient and giving Reggie a chance to do work, but this blind faith some have in him seems a little over the top to me.


this.

we all knew the trenches were our weakest area but they were neglected again.
so we draft 1 o lineman per draft yea I guess that not neglecting the line lol

Neglected how?

Bergstrom, Crawford, Bilukidi, Watson, McGee were all drafted on the lines. They need time to develop.

Brisel, Walker, Hunter, Sims were all signed as FAs.

Just because McK didn't spend his only 1st round pick in the trenches, doesn't mean they were neglected. And it's not like they've had the money to secure top FAs along the lines.


edit:

my bad still learning how to use my iphone

but yea so we get one o-lineman per draft. i guess thats not neglecting.
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you


Last edited by NCOUGHMAN on Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22108
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:

Nothing to do with pre-season game. He didnt do bad in his two starts. And Saffold is oft injured and not as powerful of push in the run game. Not to mention he will want LT money when his contract is up. Purely speculation on my part.

So if we focus I why this is important to us it is because at worst Barksdale is St. Louis 3rd OT whereas he wasn't valuable enough for us to keep at all. That is the problem not what I think of Saffold vs Barksdale.


My memories of Barksdale were him being completely out of his depth on the Oline. When he took snaps here in Oakland, he couldn't block anybody. I had no issue with him being cut.

But it's pretty unfortunate when a player as awful as Barksdale is considered 'depth' on your team. But sadly, Oaklands OTs right now are just that blend of awful he'd have a place.
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 4399
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
Dessie wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Dessie wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Laughing


People getting mad at McKenzie for not being competitive yet.


Honestly if al would have done what Reggie has done so far he would be bashed. Track record and reputation means a lot. I'm all for being patient and giving Reggie a chance to do work, but this blind faith some have in him seems a little over the top to me.


this.

we all knew the trenches were our weakest area but they were neglected again.


Neglected how?

Bergstrom, Crawford, Bilukidi, Watson, McGee were all drafted on the lines. They need time to develop.

Brisel, Walker, Hunter, Sims were all signed as FAs.

Just because McK didn't spend his only 1st round pick in the trenches, doesn't mean they were neglected. And it's not like they've had the money to secure top FAs along the lines.

They do need time to develop and I do support Reggie.

However imo there are some decisions that were made that I really do not agree with and that have put us back. And these are things that I didnt agree with when they happened and it would seem they are now coming back to bite us.

Two biggest things hurting what our OL could be is letting Satele go in FA and cutting Barksdale. Both are starting for other teams. While Satele is no pro bowler he always played well and though the whitsle. Not to mention he was a locker room leader. I thought Barksdale did well and should have never been cut.

Our line could be this right now. We could have cut ties with Briesel and paid Desmond Bryant who was probably our biggest defensive loss.

LT: Veldheer, Barksdale
LG: Wiz, Bergstrom
C: Satele, Wiz
RG: Barnes, Nix
RT: Barksdale, Watson


But for now I trust there is a plan and they know better than I do.


Isn't Barksdale only starting because Saffold has a shoulder injury?

True but betting they would trade Saffold if the oppertunity presented itself. Actually I watched this last game and Barksdale played the best out of all of them. Confirmed here.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/08/18/refo-gb-stl-preseason-wk-2/


He didn't impress in his 2 starts last year. Not sure the Rams would trade Saffold on the back of 1 pre season game.

Nothing to do with pre-season game. He didnt do bad in his two starts. And Saffold is oft injured and not as powerful of push in the run game. Not to mention he will want LT money when his contract is up. Purely speculation on my part.

So if we focus I why this is important to us it is because at worst Barksdale is St. Louis 3rd OT whereas he wasn't valuable enough for us to keep at all. That is the problem not what I think of Saffold vs Barksdale.


Trying to say Barksdale would be the answer is the problem.. He gave up 2 sacks 3 hits and 3 QB pressures in 2 games. He got outplayed by Khalif Barnes and Willie Smith who are below average at best and he isn't a starter for the Rams.
_________________
bitty wrote:
I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked.
#clueless
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8494
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He never got outplayed by Smith. We moved to ZBS. It is crap to think a guy like that couldnt be developed yet we still think we can develop or work on a guy like Barron or Briesel.

This is the problem. You want a young guy who has room to grow to make mistakes. Or a vet who has been making them for 5 plus years. Not to mention playing with the same guys year after year building chemistry. I would prefer the young guy if the mistakes are the same.

Also those games last year were against NE and GB and he was playing LT not RT. I would assume at RT those numbers would be much better. Those numbers are not that far off from what we expect from Barron or am I wrong to think that?

And I didnt say he would be answer to problem. I said had we kept him and Satele we wouldnt be in deep doo-doo right now.
Satele is a wash at OC imo
Wiz at LG would be an upgrade.
Barnes, Bergstrom, or Nix would probably be an upgrade over Brisel at RG but worse case much better depth.
Watson and/or Barksdale probably a wash at RT.

Right now we have questions at RG, LG, and LT. Had we kept these guys we would really only have big question at the LT with Veldheer out.

You can manage cover up one bad spot but there is no good reason to have multiple at this point.
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 4399
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
He never got outplayed by Smith. We moved to ZBS. It is crap to think a guy like that couldnt be developed yet we still think we can develop or work on a guy like Barron or Briesel.

This is the problem. You want a young guy who has room to grow to make mistakes. Or a vet who has been making them for 5 plus years. Not to mention playing with the same guys year after year building chemistry. I would prefer the young guy if the mistakes are the same.

Also those games last year were against NE and GB and he was playing LT not RT. I would assume at RT those numbers would be much better. Those numbers are not that far off from what we expect from Barron or am I wrong to think that?


Smith must have outplayed him as we kept him. Comparing Barksdale to Barron isn't a great measuring stick.

As Reggie has proved he is quite prepared to go the youth route but obviously Barksdale didn't fit the bill and hasn't done anything as yet to say we were wrong.

Also we couldn't afford Satele, it was cheaper to play Carlisle at LG and move Wiz to center.
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bitty wrote:
I don't understand why everybody thinks Green Bay is the pinnacle of NFL franchises?
In my opinion they are a joke. In the last ten years there drafts sucked.
#clueless
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EricAllen21


Joined: 28 May 2013
Posts: 884
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I hope pans out

Pryor just named a started and see what we got. He is a boom or bust player, might as well see what he has to offer, if he can get better with experience. If he excels great, or he flops we will have Clowney. You a Pryor hater if you dont recnogize he has alot of potential.

1st Clowney
2nd Derek Carr

I really like Carr alot, is a leader can make all the throws and is a game. Would be a great bargain in the 2nd. Two huge impact players with the first two picks if Pryor flops
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8494
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
He never got outplayed by Smith. We moved to ZBS. It is crap to think a guy like that couldnt be developed yet we still think we can develop or work on a guy like Barron or Briesel.

This is the problem. You want a young guy who has room to grow to make mistakes. Or a vet who has been making them for 5 plus years. Not to mention playing with the same guys year after year building chemistry. I would prefer the young guy if the mistakes are the same.

Also those games last year were against NE and GB and he was playing LT not RT. I would assume at RT those numbers would be much better. Those numbers are not that far off from what we expect from Barron or am I wrong to think that?


Smith must have outplayed him as we kept him. Comparing Barksdale to Barron isn't a great measuring stick.

As Reggie has proved he is quite prepared to go the youth route but obviously Barksdale didn't fit the bill and hasn't done anything as yet to say we were wrong.

Also we couldn't afford Satele, it was cheaper to play Carlisle at LG and move Wiz to center.

Smith didn't outplay him. In fact he was only here for like two or three weeks during the season when they don't practice as much. Neither played in the games that I know of. Smith was cut by WASH and we picked up for ZBS that was about it.

Why wouldnt I compare Barksdale to Barron? That is the exact situation we are in.

We could have afforded Satele. We just chose not to, he was not that expensive and probably would have been a little cheaper for us to resign right off the bat. They could have signed him to 3 year deal and back loaded the contract. Or maybe not signed some other junk. Heck I would have rather kept Satele than signed Briesel. Tolefson isnt even here anymore, etc.
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