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Pastor Dillon


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Chris Carter's top 10 WR list Reply with quote

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9517295/nfl-2013-training-camps-cris-carter-top-10-wide-receivers

can someone please tell me how Andre Johnson isnt a top 10 WR? He is getting up there in age at 32 but he is coming off a career season and has shown no signs of letting up this season

on a separate note he is just 746 yards away from 12,000 and just 2,523 from top 10 all time status, and just 3,680 from top 5 status at least in yards

in catches he will enter the top 20 all time by week 3

simply put, Andre Johnson should be included in any top 10 current WR list and unless he gets injured again or drastically declines quickly he will have a top 10 all time case to be made..if he plays at the level and age of say a reggie wayne his numbers will be crazy good
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Texansfan713


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL at this:

Quote:
That's why it was so difficult to determine the final group. I wanted to include Houston's Andre Johnson, but I can't say he's on the same level as these other guys anymore. The same is true for Reggie Wayne in Indianapolis. Even though they both had more than 100 receptions in 2012 -- and have enjoyed spectacular careers -- I had to leave them off my list because the competition was so tight.


Yet he has Steve Smith on there who is 2 years older than Andre. Percy Harvin is one of my favorite players in the league, but no way he is a better WR than Andre. The other guys I can see why he put them on the list, but the 2 WR's I listed? No way.
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ServantofYHWH


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definetly wouldn't take Demariyus over Andre
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The problem is not many people are like me, they'll complain when it fits their agenda and completely ignore bad officiating when it doesn't
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jch1911


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ServantofYHWH wrote:
I definetly wouldn't take Demariyus over Andre


+1. I think he was looking a younger receivers with upside vs. those that have done it well (and are continuing to do it well). But that still wouldn't explain Steve Smith over some other vets (namely AJ)
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hooray - more meaningless lists to fill offseason. Not even going to take the bait and point out all the double standards and inconsistencies on this list but putting 34 year old Steve Smith on there after a 73 catch / 1,100 yard season and leaving 32 year old AJ off with 112 / 1,598 is just stupid. Harvin continues to be the most overrated player in the NFL as this will be the 5th straight season he doesn't eclipse 1,000 yards and he's only caught more than 80 once. I'm just surprised not to see Victor Cruz or Torrey Smith hype land them on such a list. Carter must be drinking again.
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Wolf6151


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These offseason lists are simply a talking heads way of filling otherwise dead space, they are meant to stir the pot and create controversy.
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ServantofYHWH


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolf6151 wrote:
These offseason lists are simply a talking heads way of filling otherwise dead space, they are meant to stir the pot and create controversy.


Yeah. It gives us something to discuss football related. There's nothing wrong with that.

I think a list this bad seriously will hurt his rep as an analyst.
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ServantofYHWH


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolf6151 wrote:
These offseason lists are simply a talking heads way of filling otherwise dead space, they are meant to stir the pot and create controversy.


Yeah. It gives us something to discuss football related. There's nothing wrong with that.

I think a list this bad seriously will hurt his rep as an analyst.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ServantofYHWH wrote:
Wolf6151 wrote:
These offseason lists are simply a talking heads way of filling otherwise dead space, they are meant to stir the pot and create controversy.


Yeah. It gives us something to discuss football related. There's nothing wrong with that.

I think a list this bad seriously will hurt his rep as an analyst.


No, it actually just substantiates is already poor rep. In his 2011 edition, Carter claimed Calvin Johnson wasn't "elite" and had Greg Jennings and Desean Jackson as "elite" and Miles Austin, Santonio Holmes, and Anquan Boldin ranked ahead of him with CJ 10th. Even delusional Cowboys fans, who terminally overrate their marginal talent, knew Miles friggin Austin's two good seasons were a bit of a fluke and weren't surprised when he came back to earth. Desean Jackson ran a nice fly pattern and got some long touchdowns outrunning poor coverage with safeties focused on Vick or McCoy, but how could anyone look at tape and think he was a better receiver than CJ? Real analysts like Jawarski, painstakingly review tape and aren't swayed by hype or inherent bias and can support their case with research. Carter seems to just list "players he likes" which would be fine, except they present it as if it's akin to Jawarski's QB rankings.
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Pastor Dillon


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really enjoying the hype about Hopkins, if he can produce at a high level AJ might ply another 4-5 seasons and get that 3800 yards he needs
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mse326


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
71. Last season, there were 71 different players who were targeted in the end zone more or the same number of times as Andre Johnson.




72. Johnson had just six end zone targets and caught one. Among the players with more catches in the end zone than Johnson last season? Garrett Graham, Jeff Cumberland and Lee Smith.


http://espn.go.com/fantasy/football/story/_/page/nfldk2k13_TMR_100_facts/matthew-berry-100-facts-need-know-drafting-your-fantasy-football-team

That is absurd. And as we know this isn't a 1 year aberration. This why his TD output is so low for someone of his skill and why he gets overlooked.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
Quote:
71. Last season, there were 71 different players who were targeted in the end zone more or the same number of times as Andre Johnson.




72. Johnson had just six end zone targets and caught one. Among the players with more catches in the end zone than Johnson last season? Garrett Graham, Jeff Cumberland and Lee Smith.


http://espn.go.com/fantasy/football/story/_/page/nfldk2k13_TMR_100_facts/matthew-berry-100-facts-need-know-drafting-your-fantasy-football-team

That is absurd. And as we know this isn't a 1 year aberration. This why his TD output is so low for someone of his skill and why he gets overlooked.


What I would love to see is a breakdown of Texans playcalling inside the red zone, inside the 10, and inside the 5 for the past several years as well as how many passes we actually threw into the end zone. My take is that Gary's playcalling sphincter tightens up anytime we get inside the 20 and invariably 1st and 2nd down are runs up the middle and oftentimes even 3rd.

The ZBS design flaw has always been in tight quarters where cutback lines don't exist and lineman will be out-muscled by the beef brought in to fill those lanes. Arian is a decent short-yardage back in the sense that he can punch it in from the 1 even without a great o-line push, but Gary seems to confuse the 1 yard line with the 10. Amongst Arians 45 rushing TD's, I count 7 from the 5 yardline to 9 and 4 from the 10 to 20. I'd be willing to bet that despite generating only 25% of his TDs from the RZ outside the 4, Gary hands it to Arian on 70% of playcalls inside the 20. Sure there have probably been a few times where Arian runs it to the 1, then punches it in, but my sense is that more often then not the drive stalls inside the 10 which leads to a maddening amount of field goals inside the 29 (drive stalls inside the 12) and 39 (stalls inside the 22). Graham had 20 Field Goals last year 39 yards and under last year and Rackers had 25 the year before. To quantify that, that is 80 points lost to red zone FGs vs. TDs in 2012 and 100 in 2011.

What is equally maddening about the playcalling is that Schaub's strength is in the short-medium pass game and he throws relatively few red zone ints. What is hard to diagnose about the red zone passing game is whether it's more a matter of just not throwing enough from 5-20 or if the receivers truly lack red zone talent. I have always felt that AJ doesn't use his physical advantages enough to create separation in close quarters (I don't recall him EVER getting flagged for pushing off), but it's not like there is a DC on the planet that isn't bracketing him or even triple covering which should leave someone open. OD has never been an effective red zone target, never getting more than 3 TD's from inside the RZ. Kevin Walter got 4 RZ tds in 07 and 5 in 08, but no more than 3 in any season thereafter including none last year. Jacoby has a whopping 6 RZ TDs in 5 seasons here and I don't blame Schaub for ignoring him as Jacoby was awful short and mid range. About the best RZ season we've ever had from a WR/TE was Joel Dreessen in 2011 with 5 from 3 different Qbs. Graham & Casey each had 3 RZ TD's last year. Keshawn Martin had 1.

The topic would be incomplete without mentioning Schaub's 4 rushing TDs in 6 seasons. Cam Newton he isn't, so there is no need to defend the QB as a runner, but Peyton and Brady average just over 1 rushing TD per season and RG3 himself only had 1 RZ rushing TD after week 6, so I consider Schaub's mobility more of a minor contributing factor.

Obviously, one of the exciting things about Nuk is that he is certainly presenting as a viable RZ threat as a #2 WR which is something we have NEVER had opposite AJ. It will be interesting to see how some early success opens things up for EVERYONE, but it starts with GARY being willing to risk the 2% chance of Schaub throwing an interception deep for the upside of getting TDs vs. Field Goals with his hyper-conservative approach.

Chew on this one - James Jones had 11 Red Zone TD's last season, AJ has 8 in the past 3 seasons combined!
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I left off one of the most maddening manifestations of Gary's conservative playcalling, which is how often we line up for field goals having not even thrown a single ball into the end zone. There is practically NO statistical benefit of moving the ball from the 20 to the 13 or from the 10 to the 3 as NFL kickers don't miss FGs under 35 yards, yet we seem to playcall as if these yards are meaningful. We also don't seem to have any belief in the success of play action in the red zone which given our proclivities to run so much in the RZ, PA would be that much more effective. If Schaub takes a sack that pushes us back 8 yards, who the hell cares as there is no difference kicking from the 23 than from the 15. Simple fact is that throwing inside the red zone is SAFER than elsewhere as you not only have the ability to throw it out of the end zone and rarely be flagged, but you have an extra sideline to work with with the back of the end zone allowing you to throw passes only your receiver can catch and make mistakes in the middle without giving up picks.

As a final point of analysis, I would love to see how many times the Texans completed passes deep in the red zone, where the receiver allowed himself to be pushed out at the 3. It may be counter-intuitive, but I'd be willing to bet that fewer bad things happen when a player is selling out life and limb to get those final few yards with a CB or S behind them then when 11 players are dug in focusing on not letting the ball advance an inch. AJ in particular seems WAYYY to passive when approaching the end zone and seems to be content to get pushed out and let Arian punch it in, which is a selfless move, but there is nothing more deflating than letting a defense successfully mount a goalline stand against you.

I don't know how you instill it, but this team needs to make having a nose for the end zone something that more than Arian possesses. Its a tough thing to practice due to injury risk, and it's often hard to get mad at a player who often just made a great play to get the ball close, but I'd have a reel of tape of players who failed to finish the final few yards coupled with our subsequent failure to convert the TD and implore the players to finish the job themselves. Hell, AJ needs to know that if his career ended tomorrow, his current standing at 82nd all-time in Tds with only 56 (one more than Ed McAffery, 22 less than Reggie Wayne) could keep him out of the HOF. Tim Brown had 100 TDs, 3,700 more yards, and 4 more pro bowls than AJ and is still not in and that's from an era before QBs were throwing 35 times per game.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
I left off one of the most maddening manifestations of Gary's conservative playcalling, which is how often we line up for field goals having not even thrown a single ball into the end zone. There is practically NO statistical benefit of moving the ball from the 20 to the 13 or from the 10 to the 3 as NFL kickers don't miss FGs under 35 yards, yet we seem to playcall as if these yards are meaningful. We also don't seem to have any belief in the success of play action in the red zone which given our proclivities to run so much in the RZ, PA would be that much more effective. If Schaub takes a sack that pushes us back 8 yards, who the hell cares as there is no difference kicking from the 23 than from the 15. Simple fact is that throwing inside the red zone is SAFER than elsewhere as you not only have the ability to throw it out of the end zone and rarely be flagged, but you have an extra sideline to work with with the back of the end zone allowing you to throw passes only your receiver can catch and make mistakes in the middle without giving up picks.

As a final point of analysis, I would love to see how many times the Texans completed passes deep in the red zone, where the receiver allowed himself to be pushed out at the 3. It may be counter-intuitive, but I'd be willing to bet that fewer bad things happen when a player is selling out life and limb to get those final few yards with a CB or S behind them then when 11 players are dug in focusing on not letting the ball advance an inch. AJ in particular seems WAYYY to passive when approaching the end zone and seems to be content to get pushed out and let Arian punch it in, which is a selfless move, but there is nothing more deflating than letting a defense successfully mount a goalline stand against you.

I don't know how you instill it, but this team needs to make having a nose for the end zone something that more than Arian possesses. Its a tough thing to practice due to injury risk, and it's often hard to get mad at a player who often just made a great play to get the ball close, but I'd have a reel of tape of players who failed to finish the final few yards coupled with our subsequent failure to convert the TD and implore the players to finish the job themselves. Hell, AJ needs to know that if his career ended tomorrow, his current standing at 82nd all-time in Tds with only 56 (one more than Ed McAffery, 22 less than Reggie Wayne) could keep him out of the HOF. Tim Brown had 100 TDs, 3,700 more yards, and 4 more pro bowls than AJ and is still not in and that's from an era before QBs were throwing 35 times per game.


For once I agree with you, and hopefully Hopkins helps that area. I think its our QB personally, he needs to grow a sack and gun it in the endzone, his conservative approach (brought on by Gary) won't work down there.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
I left off one of the most maddening manifestations of Gary's conservative playcalling, which is how often we line up for field goals having not even thrown a single ball into the end zone. There is practically NO statistical benefit of moving the ball from the 20 to the 13 or from the 10 to the 3 as NFL kickers don't miss FGs under 35 yards, yet we seem to playcall as if these yards are meaningful. We also don't seem to have any belief in the success of play action in the red zone which given our proclivities to run so much in the RZ, PA would be that much more effective. If Schaub takes a sack that pushes us back 8 yards, who the hell cares as there is no difference kicking from the 23 than from the 15. Simple fact is that throwing inside the red zone is SAFER than elsewhere as you not only have the ability to throw it out of the end zone and rarely be flagged, but you have an extra sideline to work with with the back of the end zone allowing you to throw passes only your receiver can catch and make mistakes in the middle without giving up picks.

As a final point of analysis, I would love to see how many times the Texans completed passes deep in the red zone, where the receiver allowed himself to be pushed out at the 3. It may be counter-intuitive, but I'd be willing to bet that fewer bad things happen when a player is selling out life and limb to get those final few yards with a CB or S behind them then when 11 players are dug in focusing on not letting the ball advance an inch. AJ in particular seems WAYYY to passive when approaching the end zone and seems to be content to get pushed out and let Arian punch it in, which is a selfless move, but there is nothing more deflating than letting a defense successfully mount a goalline stand against you.

I don't know how you instill it, but this team needs to make having a nose for the end zone something that more than Arian possesses. Its a tough thing to practice due to injury risk, and it's often hard to get mad at a player who often just made a great play to get the ball close, but I'd have a reel of tape of players who failed to finish the final few yards coupled with our subsequent failure to convert the TD and implore the players to finish the job themselves. Hell, AJ needs to know that if his career ended tomorrow, his current standing at 82nd all-time in Tds with only 56 (one more than Ed McAffery, 22 less than Reggie Wayne) could keep him out of the HOF. Tim Brown had 100 TDs, 3,700 more yards, and 4 more pro bowls than AJ and is still not in and that's from an era before QBs were throwing 35 times per game.


For once I agree with you, and hopefully Hopkins helps that area. I think its our QB personally, he needs to grow a sack and gun it in the endzone, his conservative approach (brought on by Gary) won't work down there.


Kubiak is a control freak who still doesn't allow Schaub to do much at the line other than adjusting pass protection w/Myers. You will never get a straight answer out of the Texans about audibles as they like run and pass plays to look the same from the line, so there theoretically is less need to audible or make obvious adjustments, but my sense is that they may audible 25% of the snaps and most of those are just slight adjustments like dive left to dive right. Gary's lack of creativity was never more evident than almost never audibling to send his uniquely talented pass catching FB, Casey, out uncovered from the FB spot either as a decoy to draw attention from an obvious run or to exploit some easy mismatches vs. some LB or him being completely uncovered as defenses rarely account for the FB in tight quarters. Kubiak needs to take a good long look at what happened when Shanny changed up their offense to give RGIII more freedom to utilize his unique skill and empower Schaub to do more at the line to exploit mismatches and shake things up when the entire stadium seems to know the play call.

Schaub can likely switch to play action when he senses teams are selling out to the run, but you almost never see anything that seems like straight run to pass, such as a deep pass vs. single coverage on 2nd and 2. In tight quarters, there isn't as much time to execute play action, so I suspect this could be an important factor in our lack of red zone success through the air. For goodness sakes, this is a 31 year old QB with 83 starts under his belt to go with AJs 142 starts and they don't have the power to adjust with a cue at the line to exploit a mismatch. Likewise, I cannot remember a single play last year where we sent anyone deep out of the slot which should be an automatic when they are doubling AJ and trying to cover the slot with a LB or coverage challenged S like Pollard. Hell, how many CBs went down in that Pats game, yet Kubiak didn't seem to adjust anything, yet Belichick/Brady twice found the Barrett Ruud / Shane Vareen mismatch to the tune of 58 yards and 2 tds through the air. Pats convert 70% of red zone drives into TDs, while the Texans regularly hover around 50%. The red zone is about finding the mismatch and path of least resistance and exploiting it, not pummeling your RB into the line 3 times and kicking field goals from inside the 10 without once throw a ball into the end zone.

Hell, as long as I'm at it, how about eliminating the most absurd play call in our book which is emptying out the backfield and sending Arian out wide (which we did 37 times last year), effectively taking the 2nd best skill position player out of the play since unlike Slaton, we never throw to him when he's split out. If you listen carefully, I think you can hear Schaub's sphincter tighten when he's back there with NO protection and invariably the ball comes out too quick or is thrown into the bleachers when the defense doesn't blink at this tired play that has been on our reel for years. We got a whopping 4 first downs with this stupid play last year and 2 of them were Matt Schaub 1 yard dives which in 2011 may have cost us a Super Bowl due to Fat Albert's season ending foot stomp. This play reminds me of some of Kubiak's kick/go or challenge/not challenge calls where he tries to overcome his conservative nature with irresponsible risks at times with practically no middle ground. Here's a crazy "middle ground" thought - put both Tate and Foster in the same backfield then split Foster out and still hand it to Tate or actually throw it to Foster once in a while as a tendency breaker. Seems like a red zone winner to me.
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