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As a Receiving Threat, how does Dickson compare to Pitta?
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: As a Receiving Threat, how does Dickson compare to Pitta? Reply with quote

Obviously the lose of Pitta hurts, but the Ravens do have 2 talented TEs on the roster and while losing Pitta sucks, I'm curious how well Ravens Nation thinks Dickson can slide into a FT role as starting TE from Day 1?

Any predictions on his numbers/expectations? I'd greatly appreciate any useful information
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's motivated and in a contract year. I think he'll be OK, but he has to fix his hands to make me a believer. If its one thing I don't like is people with no hands.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd guess and say he has about 450-500 yds receiving or so off of 50 recs... I'd probably put that as his realistic best case scenario. And assuming he stays healthy, I'll guess his worst case scenario would be about 350 yds receiving and 35 recs. but either way he's going to get his opportunities. But I'd expect Dickson to he inconsistent. Dominates a few drives in one game and then virtually disappears on the stat sheet for the next few games only to repeat the process. He was like that in his rookie season when we used him more than Pitta and as Dickson has inconsistent hands... I'd expect that trend to hold true.

But Dickson has the size and athleticism to be a matchup nightmare on occasion. So that definitely helps him as a receiving threat TE.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pitta















Dickson
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dickson is a different type of receiver than Pitta. Ed is more of a big-play threat that's had some inconsistencies where Dennis is the proverbial safety valve type of TE. This will be the first year Dickson is the clear-cut #1 TE and we can only hope he takes advantage of it. I have faith that since Dickson's in a contract year he'll be pretty good. Laughing
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn that really sucks to hear guys, losing him and Boldin means its pretty much up to Rice and Smith to help Flacco i guess
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
I'd guess and say he has about 450-500 yds receiving or so off of 50 recs... I'd probably put that as his realistic best case scenario. And assuming he stays healthy, I'll guess his worst case scenario would be about 350 yds receiving and 35 recs. but either way he's going to get his opportunities. But I'd expect Dickson to he inconsistent. Dominates a few drives in one game and then virtually disappears on the stat sheet for the next few games only to repeat the process. He was like that in his rookie season when we used him more than Pitta and as Dickson has inconsistent hands... I'd expect that trend to hold true.

But Dickson has the size and athleticism to be a matchup nightmare on occasion. So that definitely helps him as a receiving threat TE.


Pretty good assessment. His biggest issue is mental. He runs pretty good routes, has great athleticism, and is a terrific blocker as well. If he can bring some consistent hands this year then he can be a pretty solid weapon for us. It's his contract year and so he's got a lot to play for.

As far as your 'best case scenario' statline, I think that's lowballing a bit. It's worth noting that in 2011 when he was splitting reps with Pitta he put up 54 catches for 528 yards and 5 touchdowns. So I think as the primary #1 tight end for a full season, IF he's able to step up his consistency, there's no reason why he can't give us 60+ catches and 700-800 receiving yards. That's more of the 'best case scenario' type output I'd grant Dickson.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
As far as your 'best case scenario' statline, I think that's lowballing a bit. It's worth noting that in 2011 when he was splitting reps with Pitta he put up 54 catches for 528 yards and 5 touchdowns. So I think as the primary #1 tight end for a full season, IF he's able to step up his consistency, there's no reason why he can't give us 60+ catches and 700-800 receiving yards. That's more of the 'best case scenario' type output I'd grant Dickson.


Yeah that's what I was thinking too. Factoring in the improvement in Flacco and Smith (as a target that draws coverage) should help too.
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually with SnA here. Ed is more athletic and that's where it ends.
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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dickson had a nice cameo in the Superbowl, making a couple of tough catches for big yards. Hopefully we'll see more of that, and less of him dropping the ball.

He's definitely got all the ingredients needed to make a top NFL TE, but I agree that the main element that we still need to see proved is his mental strength.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I'm actually with SnA here. Ed is more athletic and that's where it ends.


I don't think anyone's saying he's better than Pitta (who I think was in line for a 1000 yard season had he not gotten hurt). Pitta runs better routes and has much better hands.

But as far as backup TE's we could do worse than Dickson and all things considered he could still end up giving us a pretty solid season.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
I'd guess and say he has about 450-500 yds receiving or so off of 50 recs... I'd probably put that as his realistic best case scenario. And assuming he stays healthy, I'll guess his worst case scenario would be about 350 yds receiving and 35 recs. but either way he's going to get his opportunities. But I'd expect Dickson to he inconsistent. Dominates a few drives in one game and then virtually disappears on the stat sheet for the next few games only to repeat the process. He was like that in his rookie season when we used him more than Pitta and as Dickson has inconsistent hands... I'd expect that trend to hold true.

But Dickson has the size and athleticism to be a matchup nightmare on occasion. So that definitely helps him as a receiving threat TE.


Pretty good assessment. His biggest issue is mental. He runs pretty good routes, has great athleticism, and is a terrific blocker as well. If he can bring some consistent hands this year then he can be a pretty solid weapon for us. It's his contract year and so he's got a lot to play for.

As far as your 'best case scenario' statline, I think that's lowballing a bit. It's worth noting that in 2011 when he was splitting reps with Pitta he put up 54 catches for 528 yards and 5 touchdowns. So I think as the primary #1 tight end for a full season, IF he's able to step up his consistency, there's no reason why he can't give us 60+ catches and 700-800 receiving yards. That's more of the 'best case scenario' type output I'd grant Dickson.

What I mean when I say "realistic best case scenario" isn't what I think is his best case scenario if he puts it all together. But rather what I expect him to put together considering his current strengths and weaknesses. What my highest level of expectation is for him given all the factors.

I just think his hands will be too big of an issue for him to be consistently reliable. Now Pitta, I agree that he was primed for a 850-1000 yds season... just because he has the kind of hands that you can force feed him the ball. I suppose that isn't very clear. But realistically speaking I expect Dickson to be within 350-550 yds receiving. If he exceeds that number, I will look at it as a plus.... something beyond my expectations.

I agree that as a #1 TE, Dickson putting up 700-800 yds receiving, etc... isn't out of the question, those just aren't my expectations for him. I assumed the guy was asking these questions for a sort of fantasy value perspective... and I'd rather not pump into his head delusions of grandeur (with regard to the kind of fantasy impact Dickson might provide). I'd need to see more consistency from Dickson before I'd be ready to advice anyone to really expect anything great from him. In his sophomore campaign where he put up 528, he was a threat similar to Boldin... a guy that Flacco would get into a groove with for a few drives and then disappear for games at a time, likely because Flacco would lose confidence in him being able to make plays.

If that trend continues, I'd expect Dickson to put up similar stats to that season.

I personally think where we'll make up the production loss from Pitta will be moreso with increased production from Tandon Doss, who has those same type of glue-like hands and reckless abandon in traffic as Pitta (I'm thinking he's going to be that 3rd down chain mover/redzone threat) and then Kyle Juszczyk will fill in from a variety standpoint. Pitta's role was likely about to be even more expanded as an H-back... but now KJ will see those targets.

Though like you said, Dickson IS in a contract year... so him putting together a 1000 yd season (which given his athleticism, size, and opportunity) might not even be out of the question. But that's the thing, he has the talent to put up heavy output... but given his inconsistencies, it's just not something I'll expect... realistically to happen.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: As a Receiving Threat, how does Dickson compare to Pitta Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Obviously the lose of Pitta hurts, but the Ravens do have 2 talented TEs on the roster and while losing Pitta sucks, I'm curious how well Ravens Nation thinks Dickson can slide into a FT role as starting TE from Day 1?

Any predictions on his numbers/expectations? I'd greatly appreciate any useful information


Dickson is a much better athlete, but Pitta has better hands and is Flacco's closest friend on the team, the combination of which results in great chemistry.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:32 pm    Post subject: Re: As a Receiving Threat, how does Dickson compare to Pitta Reply with quote

alfalcone wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Obviously the lose of Pitta hurts, but the Ravens do have 2 talented TEs on the roster and while losing Pitta sucks, I'm curious how well Ravens Nation thinks Dickson can slide into a FT role as starting TE from Day 1?

Any predictions on his numbers/expectations? I'd greatly appreciate any useful information


Dickson is a much better athlete, but Pitta has better hands and is Flacco's closest friend on the team, the combination of which results in great chemistry.


So what are the expectations of Pitta? I have a hard time seeing Flacco getting even pedestrian yardage numbers without a good chunk going to Ed.

Smith- ~1000
Rice ~700

The rest is spread among alot of young guys or Jones right?
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:57 am    Post subject: Re: As a Receiving Threat, how does Dickson compare to Pitta Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:

So what are the expectations of Pitta? I have a hard time seeing Flacco getting even pedestrian yardage numbers without a good chunk going to Ed.

Smith- ~1000
Rice ~700

The rest is spread among alot of young guys or Jones right?

Did you mean what are the expectations for Flacco? Since Pitta is injured, I can only assume you were thinking to say expectations for either Flacco or Dickson... and since Dickson's expectations have sort of been discussed, I can only assume you meant to say Flacco?

Assuming you meant to say Flacco, spreading the ball around and "making receivers" has always been a sign of a good QB, we get to see exactly how good Flacco is under this new level of factors. But we still have to remember that it took a guy like Big Ben awhile to crack the 4k barrier too, so I'm not sure it's the teams target, just more of a media/fan thing to point to as a way of determining if Flacco was worth his contract. But I could definitely see Flacco still producing and cracking that barrier with the talent on hand. I think we'll see more of a committee approach.

In terms of numbers predictions for Flacco:
4,265 yds, 365c/580a (63%), 7.35 avg, 31 TDs

Smith- 65, 1100, 9 TDs
Rice- 70, 600, 2 TDs
Jacoby- 40, 540, 3 TDs
Dickson- 50, 525, 5 TDs
Doss- 40, 450, 4 TDs
Thompson- 20, 360, 2 TDs
Juszczyk- 30, 300, 3 TDs
Shiancoe- 20, 200, 2 TDs
Pierce- 20, 140, 1 TD
Leach- 10, 50

With Jacoby being both receiver and returner I could certainly see his receiver role being given a little more opportunities than last year while still being limited on the field some for a breather. So I'm thinking the #4 WR, which at this point appears to be Deonte Thompson, should receive some nice opportunities to work on the outside and in the slot on occasion. Thompson possesses a similar skillset to Jacoby which means his offensive role wouldn't need to differ. It would be more or less plug and play. So I'm thinking while Doss solidifies the #3/slot receiver spot with his production pacing and probably slightly exceeding what we received last year from Jacoby, Boldin's production should basically be covered by a combination of Jacoby/Thompson.

With Pitta/Boldin gone, I think Rice reprises his former role of 3rd down checkdown favorite for Flacco and that shows with increased receptions from over last season. I'm thinking Rice and Doss will be the third down guys this year to replace last years tandem.

And I expect Smith to largely pace the group. He has the explosiveness and experience to crack the 1k mark and with increased receptions coming his way, I expect him to get to that mark and then some.

Other than a rare target, Leach probably sees few passes his way. And again, with a committee like system, I expect the trio of Dickson, Juszczyk, and Shiancoe to see the tight end position in different roles. All seeing some opportunities. Shiancoe is a veteran so I could see Flacco relying on him when Dickson struggles with consistency, but at the same time Dickson is in a contract year and he's a matchup mismatch for most defenders, so I do expect some positive output. But between inconsistent hands and increased defensive focus, I don't think we see much more than average starting TE production. And I'm thinking Juszczyk will sort of be like Pitta in 2011, see increased targets and opportunities as the season progresses until its clear he has some sort of special Ray Rice/Dennis Pitta-esq connection with Flacco and the coaches will be forced to find him more and more playing time.

Obviously I see Flacco having a career year as a passer in yards without Cam Cameron as he can now pass towards the middle of the field (who knew?), I see increased touchdowns with the increase in pass attempts and confidence Flacco looks to have, and lastly with an ability to target the middle of the field more and with so many short/intermediate type receiver options at his disposal I'm thinking we'll see Flacco's completion percentage approach a career bests at 63%. I see a more Patriots/Tom Brady spread the ball around like jelly type of attack than we've seen in past years.
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