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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1846
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaRealdeal wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6463/daquan-bowers

Quote:
According to the Tampa Tribune, the idea of benching LE Da'Quan Bowers is "gaining steam" among the Bucs' coaching staff.We already knew coach Greg Schiano was unhappy with his third-year pro. Per reporter Roy Cummings, Schiano is "not happy with Bowers' conditioning, effort in practice or performance in last week's preseason opener against Baltimore."


Time for Mark to do his thing and pull off a trade to bring in a solid vet in!

Ugh, I hate hearing this. We are depending on Bowers to dominate and he might get benched? Jeez.
Welp, looks like somebody is going to have to step up in a major way. DTN is a below average pass rusher but I think he'd be a solid fit at LDE. Then put Bowers/Means in on thirds or passing situations if he can't put it together.
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Caaddy24


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 5479
Location: Houston
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
Calibucsfan wrote:
We should of paid Bennet


He's out for the year.

Like I said I don't know where all this hype was for Bowers in the first place


Elite athleticism + production in college...

(prior to his injury)


I'm not talking about college, this is his third year in the NFL and he's not shown much, but everyone is still thinking he's gonna be an elite DE
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7432
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No offense but it's mark banking on Bowers with no back up. Now we have to invest a pick? If we do. Call Philly. Graham.
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tml_gogo


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 13607
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caaddy24 wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
Caaddy24 wrote:
Calibucsfan wrote:
We should of paid Bennet


He's out for the year.

Like I said I don't know where all this hype was for Bowers in the first place


Elite athleticism + production in college...

(prior to his injury)


I'm not talking about college, this is his third year in the NFL and he's not shown much, but everyone is still thinking he's gonna be an elite DE


Oh I see, yeah I don't know I thought he looked good in his time last year, not elite but he got some pressure and into the backfield.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7432
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems failed draft picks from 2009-2011 have had to be made up by handing out large $$$ and trading picks.

It's a bit of a rant but for Dom too put that much confidence in an unproven injury prone guy is beyond me. 4 high draft picks invested in te dline. McCoy has answered when ealthy. Clayborn is a guy I like but needs to sty healthy. Price was a flop. Bowers is looking like one.
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1846
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems failed draft picks from 2009-2011 have had to be made up by handing out large $$$ and trading picks.

It's a bit of a rant but for Dom too put that much confidence in an unproven injury prone guy is beyond me. 4 high draft picks invested in te dline. McCoy has answered when ealthy. Clayborn is a guy I like but needs to sty healthy. Price was a flop. Bowers is looking like one.
Wasn't a fan of the Price pick to begin with. Although I did understand it because we needed some defensive line talent in the worst way. It'd drive me nuts whenever people said Price was better than McCoy. Guy was poorly conditioned for the NFL game and his body could not hold up to be an every down player. Same thing with Gaines Adams kinda(RIP)

I'm definitely off the bandwagon of drafting guys with conditioning and injury histories. Especially if those guys are in the trenches.
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ravishingone


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 2697
Location: Leola
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems failed draft picks from 2009-2011 have had to be made up by handing out large $$$ and trading picks.

It's a bit of a rant but for Dom too put that much confidence in an unproven injury prone guy is beyond me. 4 high draft picks invested in te dline. McCoy has answered when ealthy. Clayborn is a guy I like but needs to sty healthy. Price was a flop. Bowers is looking like one.


The West coast scout lost his job because of the Price selection. We'll see how Bowers does or does not answer the challenge before I'm willing to call him a bust. Certainly it is a very important time for Bowers to show something.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7432
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just pains me to say this, but Dom's job security has to be 50/50 based on this year. Yeah, sure. Getting All Pro's Darell Revis and Dashon Goldson and signing stud WR Vincent Jackson are excellent moves and all.

But the 2009 Draft class is non existent, besides Freeman, who is a huge question mark. The 2010 Class got us Williams and McCoy, two studs. But flopped on both 2nd rounders and 3rd rounders. The 2011 class has gotten us Clayborn, if healthy, should have double digit sack opportunities and a good LB in Mason Foster, who could be better.

So while Dom's draft hasn't been bad, but it hasn't been great either. He hasn't done a great job completing the defensive line when he's invested a ton of picks into it.

2009:
-DT Roy Miller No longer with team.
-DE Kyle Moore: Cut, bust.

2010:
-Gerald McCoy : Pro Bowler in 3rd year.
-DT Brian Price : Bust; out of NFL

2011:
-DE Adrian Clayborn: 7.5 sacks rookie year, torn ACL 2012
-DE Dequan Bowers: Injury riddled career, bum knee and torn achilles. 2.5 sacks career; potential chronic knee issues.

2013:
-Spence: rookie
-Gholstone DE: Rookie
-Means DE : Roookie

To go into 2013 with so many question marks and NOT sign any quality depth behind this line was very skeptical.

I'm not so certain our dline can hold up.
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YoungBucs15


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 3780
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what we are saying is that Dom is a 100% liable for the draft? Shouldn't any of this also reflect on Rah as a horrible judge of talent? To me the more important aspect of Dom's job is bring in Top Tier FA's and keep us out of cap hell. While Dom probably does scouting on rookies, do you think he has say over Rah than or Schiano now? Also seems like a coincidence that the drafts have seemed to come together better since Schiano has taken over? But that must all be Dom's fault we couldn't draft with Rah as the HC.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7432
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YoungBucs15 wrote:
So what we are saying is that Dom is a 100% liable for the draft? Shouldn't any of this also reflect on Rah as a horrible judge of talent? To me the more important aspect of Dom's job is bring in Top Tier FA's and keep us out of cap hell. While Dom probably does scouting on rookies, do you think he has say over Rah than or Schiano now? Also seems like a coincidence that the drafts have seemed to come together better since Schiano has taken over? But that must all be Dom's fault we couldn't draft with Rah as the HC.


Well, to put it simple, Chip Kelly turned down Tampa because he wanted control over draft and personel decisions. Obviously, Schiano doesn't have that power.


Quote:
Who's really in charge? The Bucs ran a coach-driven system for seven years under Jon Gruden. The end result -- an aging roster in need of an overhaul -- led the Glazers to make the move to Mark Dominik, who has full decision-making power over personnel and final say on the 53-man roster. Greg Schiano has control over the 46-man game-day roster and oversees his own staff.


Quote:
An outside perspective from an NFC personnel executive: "I've always been a fan of Mark. He's been there, he's had a prominent role with the club for a while, and he's always done a good job in personnel. He's got a good scout's eye, and he's a good communicator. I can't imagine he doesn't have a good relationship with the coach, despite what you might've heard. Schiano, I've heard stories about how often he turned over the staff at Rutgers, and that those guys that were pursuing jobs out there worried about that. ... We always knew, when he was at Rutgers, he was a relentless recruiter; he was gonna go into different areas people hadn't before to get kids, and do things others didn't there before, which is good. He plays the role of the tough-[inappropriate/removed], and he wants his team the same way. What you see, it's pretty accurate in portraying who he is."


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000211489/article/whos-really-in-charge-nfc-south-squads-seek-balance

Now, I do think the decision making has been a lot better with Schiano in the picture. I do think Schiano works better with Dominik than Rah did because the systems were different. Schiano had a better knack for scouting and developed some very good NFL players at Rutgers.

I like Dom. He's excellent in the cap management situation, where I have no fear we will be a cap-stricken team. But I do have questions in certain decisions, like going into this year without beefing up the front 7, particular;ly the defensive line behind unproven/injury stricken guys.
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leadkills


Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 329
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
It just pains me to say this, but Dom's job security has to be 50/50 based on this year. Yeah, sure. Getting All Pro's Darell Revis and Dashon Goldson and signing stud WR Vincent Jackson are excellent moves and all.

But the 2009 Draft class is non existent, besides Freeman, who is a huge question mark. The 2010 Class got us Williams and McCoy, two studs. But flopped on both 2nd rounders and 3rd rounders. The 2011 class has gotten us Clayborn, if healthy, should have double digit sack opportunities and a good LB in Mason Foster, who could be better.

So while Dom's draft hasn't been bad, but it hasn't been great either. He hasn't done a great job completing the defensive line when he's invested a ton of picks into it.

2009:
-DT Roy Miller No longer with team.
-DE Kyle Moore: Cut, bust.

2010:
-Gerald McCoy : Pro Bowler in 3rd year.
-DT Brian Price : Bust; out of NFL

2011:
-DE Adrian Clayborn: 7.5 sacks rookie year, torn ACL 2012
-DE Dequan Bowers: Injury riddled career, bum knee and torn achilles. 2.5 sacks career; potential chronic knee issues.

2013:
-Spence: rookie
-Gholstone DE: Rookie
-Means DE : Roookie

To go into 2013 with so many question marks and NOT sign any quality depth behind this line was very skeptical.

I'm not so certain our dline can hold up.

Out of curiousity why did you skip over 2012? To make your point sound more? We have seen Dom has been able to understand drafting more and more each year imo.
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YoungBucs15


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 3780
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

leadkills wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
It just pains me to say this, but Dom's job security has to be 50/50 based on this year. Yeah, sure. Getting All Pro's Darell Revis and Dashon Goldson and signing stud WR Vincent Jackson are excellent moves and all.

But the 2009 Draft class is non existent, besides Freeman, who is a huge question mark. The 2010 Class got us Williams and McCoy, two studs. But flopped on both 2nd rounders and 3rd rounders. The 2011 class has gotten us Clayborn, if healthy, should have double digit sack opportunities and a good LB in Mason Foster, who could be better.

So while Dom's draft hasn't been bad, but it hasn't been great either. He hasn't done a great job completing the defensive line when he's invested a ton of picks into it.

2009:
-DT Roy Miller No longer with team.
-DE Kyle Moore: Cut, bust.

2010:
-Gerald McCoy : Pro Bowler in 3rd year.
-DT Brian Price : Bust; out of NFL

2011:
-DE Adrian Clayborn: 7.5 sacks rookie year, torn ACL 2012
-DE Dequan Bowers: Injury riddled career, bum knee and torn achilles. 2.5 sacks career; potential chronic knee issues.

2013:
-Spence: rookie
-Gholstone DE: Rookie
-Means DE : Roookie

To go into 2013 with so many question marks and NOT sign any quality depth behind this line was very skeptical.

I'm not so certain our dline can hold up.

Out of curiousity why did you skip over 2012? To make your point sound more? We have seen Dom has been able to understand drafting more and more each year imo.


Think he was only showing the lack of drafting quality DL unless the player is almost a can't miss prospect i.e. Clayborn and McCoy.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7432
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lead kills,

If you noticed I only evaluated dlineman. Don't think we took one in 2012.

We've invested a lot of picks in the DL. No return on on investment.

Edit: young buc: agree that Clayborn can be a stud but needs to stay healthy. Behind those two it's extremely concerning if you ask me.
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YoungBucs15


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 3780
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Lead kills,

If you noticed I only evaluated dlineman. Don't think we took one in 2012.

We've invested a lot of picks in the DL. No return on on investment.

Edit: young buc: agree that Clayborn can be a stud but needs to stay healthy. Behind those two it's extremely concerning if you ask me.


I agree, i expect Clayborn to be similar to McCoy's career. Showed promise and was off to a good start until he got injured. I didn't get a chance to watch Means this week but i'm looking to him to step in for Bowers if he doesn't step his game up. Seems more dedicated to learning football and how to be good. I think he will have a decent year. Like what i saw from Spence as well tonight.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7432
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YoungBucs15 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Lead kills,

If you noticed I only evaluated dlineman. Don't think we took one in 2012.

We've invested a lot of picks in the DL. No return on on investment.

Edit: young buc: agree that Clayborn can be a stud but needs to stay healthy. Behind those two it's extremely concerning if you ask me.


I agree, i expect Clayborn to be similar to McCoy's career. Showed promise and was off to a good start until he got injured. I didn't get a chance to watch Means this week but i'm looking to him to step in for Bowers if he doesn't step his game up. Seems more dedicated to learning football and how to be good. I think he will have a decent year. Like what i saw from Spence as well tonight.


Liked what I saw from means and spence but they are rookies. These guys aren't ready to start right now and Dom is depending on them to play a large role.
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