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Kirk Cousins: Best Backup in NFL
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DCRED


Joined: 07 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:45 am    Post subject: Kirk Cousins: Best Backup in NFL Reply with quote

http://blog.redskins.com/2013/07/11/kirk-cousins-ranks-as-nfls-top-backup/

While we got alot of derision from the media, blasting us for drafting a QB after trading for RG3, our FO wisely solidified the 2nd most important position on the team (according to Joe Gibbs, and other football minds).

We managed to pluck not only a capable QB, but a good leader and another role-model type personality for our locker room. All the intangibles you want in a QB plus (possibly) the talent to start with some development.

Now, the media is going to change their tune and applaud the pick because they have No Choice but to accept the fact that procuring KC in the 4th was a clever, fore-sighted move that has already paid off a couple times, and is providing us with stability in a time when we are unsure about when RG3 will be healthy.

As soon as we got him rabid fans started speculating on how much we could get if we trade him. I hope everyone understands his value at this point. I know I do. And I'm going to Thank him in Training Camp
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome! I still wish he had never had to play last season though. I remember after we drafted him questioning the pick because we had spent so many draft picks on the qb position in the 2012 draft and then the 1st in the 2013 and 14 drafts. I remember saying the only way he would play was if Rg3 was injured and I didn't think anyone wanted that to happen.

Good thing we had Cousins though for the Baltimore and Cleveland games, because if we didn't have him, there's a good chance Grossman wouldn't have won those games and we wouldn't have made the playoffs last year.

If he's the top back up QB in the NFL and one of the youngest back up qbs in the NFL, that also bodes well for us being able to move him next offseason for more draft picks. Wink

Seems good all the way around to me! Very Happy
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Awesome! I still wish he had never had to play last season though. I remember after we drafted him questioning the pick because we had spent so many draft picks on the qb position in the 2012 draft and then the 1st in the 2013 and 14 drafts. I remember saying the only way he would play was if Rg3 was injured and I didn't think anyone wanted that to happen.

Good thing we had Cousins though for the Baltimore and Cleveland games, because if we didn't have him, there's a good chance Grossman wouldn't have won those games and we wouldn't have made the playoffs last year.

If he's the top back up QB in the NFL and one of the youngest back up qbs in the NFL, that also bodes well for us being able to move him next offseason for more draft picks. Wink

Seems good all the way around to me! Very Happy
And if we were building a team for the past then all those draft picks spent would matter. But we're not. So all those draft picks spent in the past were completely irrelevant.

Our FO gratefully understands what it means to have the backup QB position solidified. Something you obviously don't understand if you are talking about trading him yet again so soon.

Other people made great points about why it doesn't make any sense to trade him until AFTER year three. Doing so before that would just pull the rug out from under our feet.

You would do yourself a favor to revise previous discussions. Nothing has changed.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After this year or after next year really doesn't matter to me, I'd just like to maximize our leverage when we can to get the best draft pick we can before we lose Cousins for nothing, because that day will happen.

I'm Glad he's considered the #1 back up by some people because as I said that's good for us should we chose to move him before we lose him for nothing, which will happen when his contract is up in the 2016 offseason.

I guess I never thought of the compensation angle before. We could wait till he becomes a free agent, hopefully he signs a big deal and then we'd receive a 3rd rounder in the 2017 NFL draft for losing Cousins in the 2016 offseason. Of course, then were talking about the 97th or later pick in the draft instead of getting a late 1st or 2nd round pick for him.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
After this year or after next year really doesn't matter to me, I'd just like to maximize our leverage when we can to get the best draft pick we can before we lose Cousins for nothing, because that day will happen.


And yet you still value "leverage" over the importance of having a quality backup. Unlike you I see the importance of having Cousins on the team over another kid we have to teach before he can see the field. QB is NOT the position I would be willing to jeopardize.

I would give up the chance of getting another pick to keep him here another year. The chances of us getting nothing for him are very slim. But to keep trying to pull the trigger prematurely justs shoots us in the foot.

I have nothing more to say on this because you have indicated repeatedly that you will never ever ever ever ever understand how important the backup QB position is, and are happy to go with a scrub like Grossman or another rookie who would probably suck as long as we pick up a couple of draft picks and take one of your projected NFL heroes like Taamu or Boykin.
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone know / remember how the Packers handled the Flynn situation.. ? Did they resign him after his 3th year --then trade him ?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
After this year or after next year really doesn't matter to me, I'd just like to maximize our leverage when we can to get the best draft pick we can before we lose Cousins for nothing, because that day will happen.


And yet you still value "leverage" over the importance of having a quality backup. Unlike you I see the importance of having Cousins on the team over another kid we have to teach before he can see the field. QB is NOT the position I would be willing to jeopardize.

I would give up the chance of getting another pick to keep him here another year. The chances of us getting nothing for him are very slim. But to keep trying to pull the trigger prematurely justs shoots us in the foot.

I have nothing more to say on this because you have indicated repeatedly that you will never ever ever ever ever understand how important the backup QB position is, and are happy to go with a scrub like Grossman or another rookie who would probably suck as long as we pick up a couple of draft picks and take one of your projected NFL heroes like Taamu or Boykin.
I definitely know the value of a back up Qb, that being said if we can turn our bench warmer into a starter in another position, I think we'd be foolish not to make that deal.

It's only premature to trade Cousins right now because RG3 got injured DCRED. If RG3 was healthy after last season, I think we would have entertained the thought of moving Cousins for a 2nd round pick and we could have drafted DJ Swearinger and Amerson, and had two projected starters in our secondary for the immediate future. Then, you don't have to draft Phillip Thomas in round 4, but I think they'd draft Rambo still in round 6 because he was such a steal at that point.

I like Cousins, always have, but I don't think we should consider him the second most important person on our team behind RG3 and should consider keeping him over adding starters at other positions.

I also believe that Landry Jones has Kirk Cousins 2.0 written all over him and other Qbs in last years draft, it's not like Cousins is a once in a lifetime back up or something. It wouldn't shock me at all to see Ben get hurt and Landry Jones win Pitt a game this year.

Qbs taken in round 3 and 4 after our pick:

Matt Barkley
Ryan Nassib
Tyler Wilson
Landry Jones

Any of these qbs would have been solid back ups for us. Heck at some point or another in the last two years all of these qbs were talked about as going top 10 in last years draft but for many different reasons they fell in the draft. From their injuries to wrs getting hurt to coaching changes and scandals, etc, etc.

RdsknGM Right now I see an article that says Matt Flynn is losing the Qb competition in Oakland to Tyler Wilson from www.opposingviews.com

Flynn was a free agent in 2012 and he signed with the Seahawks. The Packers never traded him, maybe he didn't garner the interest needed during the 2011 offseason and they felt like holding on to him was better. I'm not sure if the Packers received a compensation pick for Flynn last draft, but they should have considering he signed a 3 year 19.5 million dollar deal with 10 million guaranteed in Seattle. Flynn was traded from Seattle to Oakland this offseason for a 2014 5th round pick and a 2015 conditional pick.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
Anyone know / remember how the Packers handled the Flynn situation.. ? Did they resign him after his 3th year --then trade him ?


They didn't trade him after his 4th year. They let him become a UFA, then he signed with Seattle.

So posters on this board proved why it would be wise to keep Cousins until AFTER his 3rd year here, THEN trade him while he still has 1 Year left on his rookie deal. And let him negotiate a starting QB's contract with his new team after he plays there 1 Year.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
Anyone know / remember how the Packers handled the Flynn situation.. ? Did they resign him after his 3th year --then trade him ?


They didn't trade him after his 4th year. They let him become a UFA, then he signed with Seattle.

So posters on this board proved why it would be wise to keep Cousins until AFTER his 3rd year here, THEN trade him while he still has 1 Year left on his rookie deal. And let him negotiate a starting QB's contract with his new team after he plays there 1 Year.
Thats fine. I have no problem with that but I also don't have a problem if a team offers us a 1st or 2nd in the next two offseasons and us taking that deal and I don't understand how anyone who's a fan of the "Washington redskins first" and "Kirk Cousins second" wouldn't feel the same way. The team always comes before any one player.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
Anyone know / remember how the Packers handled the Flynn situation.. ? Did they resign him after his 3th year --then trade him ?


They didn't trade him after his 4th year. They let him become a UFA, then he signed with Seattle.

So posters on this board proved why it would be wise to keep Cousins until AFTER his 3rd year here, THEN trade him while he still has 1 Year left on his rookie deal. And let him negotiate a starting QB's contract with his new team after he plays there 1 Year.
Thats fine. I have no problem with that but I also don't have a problem if a team offers us a 1st or 2nd in the next two offseasons and us taking that deal and I don't understand how anyone who's a fan of the "Washington redskins first" and "Kirk Cousins second" wouldn't feel the same way. The team always comes before any one player.


Drafting and keeping Kirk Cousins for a few years is a good move for the WASHINGTON REDSKINS. I agreed with Joe Gibbs and Mike Shanahan when they drafted Kirk Cousins and made a move that was good for the team. Unlike your incessant whining about the pick and the slew of players you thought were better with your limited knowledge of the draft talent.

Don't Question my fanhood, sir. Especially after you have belittled and berated our Head Coach and cursed Kyle Shanahan in every possible way. Called our Front Office the worst ever in the history of the NFL etc etc. So don't speak to me about fanhood when you have taken more than every opportunity to disgrace our coaching staff and Front Office.

I am all for trading Cousins when the time comes, but that time is not now. Let's keep this focused on Cousins though, please.
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bowilson


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel both Turtle28 and DCRED have valid point in their respective arguments, but Iím more inclined to agree with Turtle28. We canít wait until the 23rd hour to decide what to do about Kirk Cousins. His value will probably be at its highest (depending on how he performs in Pre-season) after this season. Yes, he is a valued backup, but like every QB coming into the league they are looking for a starting job and KC is no different. Especially after his performance last season, he realizes that he can compete in the NFL and at a high level. We need to be realistic about his future with the Redskins. In my humble opinion, I say we look to trade him after this season, if thereís a market for him. Waiting on a compensation draft pick (which will probably be a 4th round pick) would not be a smart move by our FO. I truly think we could demand a 2rd and 4rd round in 2014 and a 2nd or 3rd rounder in 2015 for Kirk. If we overplay our hand and wait until after the 2014 seasons, then teams know he will be a FA the next year and wonít offer has much for his services. We have to get maximum value for KC or it would be another wasted 4th round pick if he walks away in free agency.
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mike23md


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is one big issue that will hurt us when it comes to trading Kirk Cousins.

The plethora of talent that is going to be coming out of the college ranks is quite good this year.

Johnny Manziel
Teddy Bridgewater
David Fales
Tajh Boyd
A.J. McCarron
Aaron Murray
Derek Carr
Marcus Mariota

There are at least 6 potential first round talents there.

If all of these guys have good years, it will hurt Cousins stock, because while we might be able to see a 2nd round pick from last years class, this years class, might push him to a 3rd round because of the talent that is there.

Its a risk that we can take, but then do you make Cousins wait another year to find his home, where he doesnt feel like he will be lost as a career back up.

I am surprised that the Browns have not come calling with a lucrative offer already. Jason Campbell is their starting QB. Maybe its Brian Hoyer. Either way, they are going to be hurting this year at that position.

But the fact still remains, that waiting on Kirk Cousins might not be a good thing and we may have to dump him for the highest bidder if those college QB's above have the same stats they had last year or better.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
There is one big issue that will hurt us when it comes to trading Kirk Cousins.

The plethora of talent that is going to be coming out of the college ranks is quite good this year.

Johnny Manziel
Teddy Bridgewater
David Fales
Tajh Boyd
A.J. McCarron
Aaron Murray
Derek Carr
Marcus Mariota

There are at least 6 potential first round talents there.

If all of these guys have good years, it will hurt Cousins stock, because while we might be able to see a 2nd round pick from last years class, this years class, might push him to a 3rd round because of the talent that is there.

I am surprised that the Browns have not come calling with a lucrative offer already. Jason Campbell is their starting QB. Maybe its Brian Hoyer. Either way, they are going to be hurting this year at that position.

But the fact still remains, that waiting on Kirk Cousins might not be a good thing and we may have to dump him for the highest bidder if those college QB's above have the same stats they had last year or better.

Good points. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.


What did you mean about the Browns? What happened to Weeden?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
mike23md wrote:
There is one big issue that will hurt us when it comes to trading Kirk Cousins.

The plethora of talent that is going to be coming out of the college ranks is quite good this year.

Johnny Manziel
Teddy Bridgewater
David Fales
Tajh Boyd
A.J. McCarron
Aaron Murray
Derek Carr
Marcus Mariota

There are at least 6 potential first round talents there.

If all of these guys have good years, it will hurt Cousins stock, because while we might be able to see a 2nd round pick from last years class, this years class, might push him to a 3rd round because of the talent that is there.

I am surprised that the Browns have not come calling with a lucrative offer already. Jason Campbell is their starting QB. Maybe its Brian Hoyer. Either way, they are going to be hurting this year at that position.

But the fact still remains, that waiting on Kirk Cousins might not be a good thing and we may have to dump him for the highest bidder if those college QB's above have the same stats they had last year or better.

Good points. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

What did you mean about the Browns? What happened to Weeden?


Reportedly, Jason Campbell is outplaying him.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000203104/article/jason-campbell-reportedly-outplays-brandon-weeden
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:

Good points. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

What did you mean about the Browns? What happened to Weeden?


Reportedly, Jason Campbell is outplaying him.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000203104/article/jason-campbell-reportedly-outplays-brandon-weeden


OhMan That is HiLaRious Laughing

I hope he wins the starting job. I'd like to see him get yet another shot, just not here. Go Jason!!

But that news makes me SO happy we have RG3+Kirk behind our Center!!...(I'd hate to be guessing like a Browns fan right now, and I'd take either one of our QB's over Campbell)
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