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Tom Heckert arrested - DUI
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broncosfan07


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 16373
Location: Denver
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Heckert will be gone I think and Russell will receive a long suspension and fine.

How can you fire Heckert and not Russell?

Think about it... Heckerts charges are 1000x worse than Russells. Id be more pissed off with the Broncos if Heckert is gone and Russell isnt.
Heckert has been here what 2 months before getting in trouble? Russell has been here a few years which might buy him a second chance. Heckert will not get one.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Heckert will be gone I think and Russell will receive a long suspension and fine.

How can you fire Heckert and not Russell?

Think about it... Heckerts charges are 1000x worse than Russells. Id be more pissed off with the Broncos if Heckert is gone and Russell isnt.


IMO, if it's a 1st offense you don't fire either one. Mandatory counseling, community service, team ordered suspension and loss of pay, any or all would be fine.

Given the conditions it's pretty safe to assume this isn't the 1st time for either, just the 1st time they've been caught. Put 'em on a short leash, and see what happens.

Zero tolerance policies rarely if ever apply to DUI's unless of course you drive professionally.
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JerseysFinest27


Joined: 07 Jan 2010
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Location: New Jersey... Props to inDENguise on the sig
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncosfan07 wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Heckert will be gone I think and Russell will receive a long suspension and fine.

How can you fire Heckert and not Russell?

Think about it... Heckerts charges are 1000x worse than Russells. Id be more pissed off with the Broncos if Heckert is gone and Russell isnt.
Heckert has been here what 2 months before getting in trouble? Russell has been here a few years which might buy him a second chance. Heckert will not get one.

Doesnt matter if its a year or a week. Think about the public outcry will be if Heckert gets fired and not Russell. The offenses are similar but Russells is so much worse. You cannot do that. You just cant.
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JerseysFinest27


Joined: 07 Jan 2010
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Location: New Jersey... Props to inDENguise on the sig
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Heckert will be gone I think and Russell will receive a long suspension and fine.

How can you fire Heckert and not Russell?

Think about it... Heckerts charges are 1000x worse than Russells. Id be more pissed off with the Broncos if Heckert is gone and Russell isnt.


IMO, if it's a 1st offense you don't fire either one. Mandatory counseling, community service, team ordered suspension and loss of pay, any or all would be fine.

Given the conditions it's pretty safe to assume this isn't the 1st time for either, just the 1st time they've been caught. Put 'em on a short leash, and see what happens.

Zero tolerance policies rarely if ever apply to DUI's unless of course you drive professionally.

I agree zero tolerance policies (firing) are rarely put into place after one DUI but given the circumstance of Russells, he deserves to be gone.

Theres no way it was a "first time" thing for either. A .246 and a guy drinking while driving? Both have done it before and clearly lack any common sense, something this front office needs to start priding themselves on.

I said it once and Ill say it again. If this is my team, and Im Pat Bowlen, I step above Elway and Ellis on this one. Fire them both. Put your foot down with the program and the community. It will show that no matter who you are, you are replaceable. Plus, the community can be confident that the team is not accepting poor lack of judgement with its leadership.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Heckert will be gone I think and Russell will receive a long suspension and fine.

How can you fire Heckert and not Russell?

Think about it... Heckerts charges are 1000x worse than Russells. Id be more pissed off with the Broncos if Heckert is gone and Russell isnt.


IMO, if it's a 1st offense you don't fire either one. Mandatory counseling, community service, team ordered suspension and loss of pay, any or all would be fine.

Given the conditions it's pretty safe to assume this isn't the 1st time for either, just the 1st time they've been caught. Put 'em on a short leash, and see what happens.

Zero tolerance policies rarely if ever apply to DUI's unless of course you drive professionally.

I agree zero tolerance policies (firing) are rarely put into place after one DUI but given the circumstance of Russells, he deserves to be gone.

Theres no way it was a "first time" thing for either. A .246 and a guy drinking while driving? Both have done it before and clearly lack any common sense, something this front office needs to start priding themselves on.

I said it once and Ill say it again. If this is my team, and Im Pat Bowlen, I step above Elway and Ellis on this one. Fire them both. Put your foot down with the program and the community. It will show that no matter who you are, you are replaceable. Plus, the community can be confident that the team is not accepting poor lack of judgement with its leadership.


I understand your point, but from an employers point of view, "Zero Tolerance" is a slippery slope. If they do what you suggest, they've gone down that slope.

Say Von gets pulled over with a .09. Do you fire him? If you institute that as a policy you have to. Otherwise both Heckert and Russell probably have pretty good cases for compensation.

It's just a path I wouldn't consider.
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paul-mac


Joined: 12 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncosfan07 wrote:
Heckert will be gone I think and Russell will receive a long suspension and fine.



And then Heckert sues for wrongful dismissal.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think you see any punishment from the Broncos til the league comes down on these guys. Will give the Broncos a little bit of a blueprint to base their punishment off of.

IMO neither get fired. But heavy fines/suspension without pay type thing. As AKRNA said zero tolerance is a slippery slope, and you can't really differ their punishment too much.
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JerseysFinest27


Joined: 07 Jan 2010
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Location: New Jersey... Props to inDENguise on the sig
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Heckert will be gone I think and Russell will receive a long suspension and fine.

How can you fire Heckert and not Russell?

Think about it... Heckerts charges are 1000x worse than Russells. Id be more pissed off with the Broncos if Heckert is gone and Russell isnt.


IMO, if it's a 1st offense you don't fire either one. Mandatory counseling, community service, team ordered suspension and loss of pay, any or all would be fine.

Given the conditions it's pretty safe to assume this isn't the 1st time for either, just the 1st time they've been caught. Put 'em on a short leash, and see what happens.

Zero tolerance policies rarely if ever apply to DUI's unless of course you drive professionally.

I agree zero tolerance policies (firing) are rarely put into place after one DUI but given the circumstance of Russells, he deserves to be gone.

Theres no way it was a "first time" thing for either. A .246 and a guy drinking while driving? Both have done it before and clearly lack any common sense, something this front office needs to start priding themselves on.

I said it once and Ill say it again. If this is my team, and Im Pat Bowlen, I step above Elway and Ellis on this one. Fire them both. Put your foot down with the program and the community. It will show that no matter who you are, you are replaceable. Plus, the community can be confident that the team is not accepting poor lack of judgement with its leadership.


I understand your point, but from an employers point of view, "Zero Tolerance" is a slippery slope. If they do what you suggest, they've gone down that slope.

Say Von gets pulled over with a .09. Do you fire him? If you institute that as a policy you have to. Otherwise both Heckert and Russell probably have pretty good cases for compensation.

It's just a path I wouldn't consider.

I understand what youre saying but I still do it. I dont take this crap lightly. Like I said in my OP, I lost a family member to a drunken driver. She was 32 weeks pregnant and lost her child. I also lost a friend in HS, he was 17. I dont care if your Matt Russell or Bill Clinton, you drink and drive, you're gone. End of story. Everyone deserves to be safe while driving.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 18547
Location: Loveland, CO
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
I don't think you see any punishment from the Broncos til the league comes down on these guys.

I hear the Broncos want to mete out their punishment to each first before the NFL does. Ellis, Elway and the team's lawyers had a conference call with Goodell and some other NFL big wigs yesterday, they (the Broncos) asked to go first. I think we will hear something today or tomorrow.

EDIT: Here's a story from ESPN that says the Broncos will take the lead.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9467017/denver-broncos-discipline-executives-sources
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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Location: Conshohocken
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul-mac wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Heckert will be gone I think and Russell will receive a long suspension and fine.



And then Heckert sues for wrongful dismissal.


I think you need to learn employment laws.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
I don't think you see any punishment from the Broncos til the league comes down on these guys.

I hear the Broncos want to mete out their punishment to each first before the NFL does. Ellis, Elway and the team's lawyers had a conference call with Goodell and some other NFL big wigs yesterday, they (the Broncos) asked to go first. I think we will hear something today or tomorrow.

EDIT: Here's a story from ESPN that says the Broncos will take the lead.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9467017/denver-broncos-discipline-executives-sources



Wellp, I was wrong on that guess haha.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with AKRNA in that they should not be fired. I'm not saying it is right, but to fire both of them and set that type of precedent could very well turnout to be a terrible business move.
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paul-mac


Joined: 12 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
paul-mac wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Heckert will be gone I think and Russell will receive a long suspension and fine.



And then Heckert sues for wrongful dismissal.


I think you need to learn employment laws.



I'm not American so I'm unsure of the exact policies, but if Heckert is fired and Russell stays, surely there's a case that he's been unfairly treated.
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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dewy's are bad mkay
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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Location: Loveland, CO
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul-mac wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
paul-mac wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Heckert will be gone I think and Russell will receive a long suspension and fine.



And then Heckert sues for wrongful dismissal.


I think you need to learn employment laws.



I'm not American so I'm unsure of the exact policies, but if Heckert is fired and Russell stays, surely there's a case that he's been unfairly treated.

Colorado is a "right to work" state, you can fire anyone for any reason at any time. And in this situation there are certainly grounds for termination. Sure they can try to sue, but they wouldn't win and doing so ruin whatever chance they have at landing jobs in other NFL FOs.
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