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NFL Network's Top 100: Calvin Johnson
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: NFL Network's Top 100: Calvin Johnson Reply with quote

Detroit Lions WR Calvin Johnson voted No. 3 on NFL Network's Top 100 for second year in a row


1: Adrian Peterson - RB
2: Peyton Manning - QB
3: Calvin Johnson - WR

Quote:
Johnson had a single-season record of 1,964 yards receiving in 2012, to go along with 122 receptions and five touchdowns.

"Just him breaking Jerry Rice's record, one of the greats of all time, a record that stood for so long, it's an incredible feat," San Francisco cornerback Donte Whitner said.

"You've always got to know where he is on the football field. Two guys have to be accountable for him."

Minnesota Vikings running back Adrian Peterson was voted No. 1 overall after falling just nine yards short (2,097) of Eric Dickerson's single-season rushing record last year.

Denver Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning was voted No. 2.


Quote:
Johnson is the only player to be voted into the NFL Network's Top 100 in consecutive seasons, combining for 218 receptions for 3,645 yards and 21 touchdowns.


Quote:
Johnson joins Lions teammates Ndamukong Suh (No. 38 ), Stephen Tulloch (No. 63) and Matthew Stafford (No. 78 ) on the list.


Where would you rank Calvin Johnson? What would your top 5 look like?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was actually really surprised that Tulloch made it. I think he is deserving though, which is the surprising part Laughing

Considering where other QB's went, Stafford's ranking isn't good enough.

Calvin is >>> Peyton right now, and had a better year as a WR last year than AP did as a RB, so I'd probably put him as #1.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That list was BRUTAL this year. I usually look at it for a laugh and a fresh take on things. But this year it didn't take long to show how big a joke it was. I can't take anything about that list seriously this year.

I don't know if different people were doing it this year or what, but it was just brutal.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
I was actually really surprised that Tulloch made it. I think he is deserving though, which is the surprising part Laughing

Considering where other QB's went, Stafford's ranking isn't good enough.

Calvin is >>> Peyton right now, and had a better year as a WR last year than AP did as a RB, so I'd probably put him as #1.


Your not serious?

You really think CJ had a superior year to Peterson?

2097 yds rushing 6.0 YPC 12 TD 40 catches for another 217 yards

CJ had a great year but AP had a fantastic year and carried his team. He had more yards, more yards per game, more TD and none of us can deny the amount of passing the Lions did last year.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
I was actually really surprised that Tulloch made it. I think he is deserving though, which is the surprising part Laughing

Considering where other QB's went, Stafford's ranking isn't good enough.

Calvin is >>> Peyton right now, and had a better year as a WR last year than AP did as a RB, so I'd probably put him as #1.


Your not serious?

You really think CJ had a superior year to Peterson?

2097 yds rushing 6.0 YPC 12 TD 40 catches for another 217 yards

CJ had a great year but AP had a fantastic year and carried his team. He had more yards, more yards per game, more TD and none of us can deny the amount of passing the Lions did last year.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
I was actually really surprised that Tulloch made it. I think he is deserving though, which is the surprising part Laughing

Considering where other QB's went, Stafford's ranking isn't good enough.

Calvin is >>> Peyton right now, and had a better year as a WR last year than AP did as a RB, so I'd probably put him as #1.


Your not serious?

You really think CJ had a superior year to Peterson?

2097 yds rushing 6.0 YPC 12 TD 40 catches for another 217 yards

CJ had a great year but AP had a fantastic year and carried his team. He had more yards, more yards per game, more TD and none of us can deny the amount of passing the Lions did last year.

I honestly think CJs season was superior.

You are comparing 2 different positions so you have to compare their achievements to others of the same position. CJ broke records with his performance. AP did not. CJ put himself in a position to be in the discussion for the best all time at his position. AP did not.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
I was actually really surprised that Tulloch made it. I think he is deserving though, which is the surprising part Laughing

Considering where other QB's went, Stafford's ranking isn't good enough.

Calvin is >>> Peyton right now, and had a better year as a WR last year than AP did as a RB, so I'd probably put him as #1.


Your not serious?

You really think CJ had a superior year to Peterson?

2097 yds rushing 6.0 YPC 12 TD 40 catches for another 217 yards

CJ had a great year but AP had a fantastic year and carried his team. He had more yards, more yards per game, more TD and none of us can deny the amount of passing the Lions did last year.

I honestly think CJs season was superior.

You are comparing 2 different positions so you have to compare their achievements to others of the same position. CJ broke records with his performance. AP did not. CJ put himself in a position to be in the discussion for the best all time at his position. AP did not.


But you also have to take into consideration other factors such as the amount of passing plays, the amount of targets etc.

CJ was targeted the third most times since 2008 and if you only count regular season he received the most targets since 2008. That really alters the significance of his accomplishment.

He had a great season but his record isn't so great all things considered. The Lions 4-12 record also over shadows the accomplishment in my eyes.

To each their own but a RB carrying for over 2000 yards and maintaining a 6.0 YPC is very significant. CJ for all his receptions couldn't get the ball in the end zone either which is what wins ball games.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
I was actually really surprised that Tulloch made it. I think he is deserving though, which is the surprising part Laughing

Considering where other QB's went, Stafford's ranking isn't good enough.

Calvin is >>> Peyton right now, and had a better year as a WR last year than AP did as a RB, so I'd probably put him as #1.


Your not serious?

You really think CJ had a superior year to Peterson?

2097 yds rushing 6.0 YPC 12 TD 40 catches for another 217 yards

CJ had a great year but AP had a fantastic year and carried his team. He had more yards, more yards per game, more TD and none of us can deny the amount of passing the Lions did last year.

I honestly think CJs season was superior.

You are comparing 2 different positions so you have to compare their achievements to others of the same position. CJ broke records with his performance. AP did not. CJ put himself in a position to be in the discussion for the best all time at his position. AP did not.


But you also have to take into consideration other factors such as the amount of passing plays, the amount of targets etc.

CJ was targeted the third most times since 2008 and if you only count regular season he received the most targets since 2008. That really alters the significance of his accomplishment.

He had a great season but his record isn't so great all things considered. The Lions 4-12 record also over shadows the accomplishment in my eyes.

To each their own but a RB carrying for over 2000 yards and maintaining a 6.0 YPC is very significant. CJ for all his receptions couldn't get the ball in the end zone either which is what wins ball games.

Not sure what "since 2008" has to do with anything. So what you are telling me is other players had more targets once upon a time and still couldn't put on an assault on a 15-20 year record. Makes CJs accomplishment that much more significant IMO.

And if TDs and targets are so important, then why aren't targets in the Endzone important? How is it his fault if his # wasn't called because they wanted to use him as a decoy rather than a target?

Also not certain what the record has to do with it. No receiver can make a significant impact on a teams' record with a circus around him. AP had less of a circus(although I still think they got a bit of a circus over there, only 2 instead of 3 rings though)and was allowed to have an impact on his teams record.

Really, that only makes me feel CJs accomplishment was that much more superior than APs

If both broke records, then the conditions of said record may make a difference. But when one did something that had never happened in NFL history and the other didn't. I am not certain conditions are wholly differential whatsoever.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also think AP's season was more impressive. He was carrying the load for his team literally offensively; yards and scoring wise. It was extremely impressive to see him run on 8 guys in the box CONSISTENTLY. Stuff I haven't seen from RB's in a long time.

I'm not going to say Calvin's accomplishment wasn't great cause it was, but Lions were just throwing it up a lot from behind quite often in losing/blow out fashion. I don't know why I think that is a detriment to Calvin(getting touches/targets) and it's a strength for A.P. but in my twisted mind/reasoning it is.

But it's also why I'm not going to say you're wrong Phreak. I mean really why is it Calvin's fault he was targeted so many times? Think It's why this is a good argument.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jrugges wrote:
I also think AP's season was more impressive. He was carrying the load for his team literally offensively; yards and scoring wise. It was extremely impressive to see him run on 8 guys in the box CONSISTENTLY. Stuff I haven't seen from RB's in a long time.

I'm not going to say Calvin's accomplishment wasn't great cause it was, but Lions were just throwing it up a lot from behind quite often in losing/blow out fashion. I don't know why I think that is a detriment to Calvin(getting touches/targets) and it's a strength for A.P. but in my twisted mind/reasoning it is.

But it's also why I'm not going to say you're wrong Phreak. I mean really why is it Calvin's fault he was targeted so many times? Think It's why this is a good argument.

Well by the same token, I have never seen a WR consistently make catches triple covered. Which, to me, is equal to running against 9 or 10 in the box. Calvin saw his version of 8 in the box much more often than AP did. And if the argument is that CJ was targetted that often because that was all we had, well didn't AP carry that often because that is all they had? CJ has carried this team for years. AP shows up for a season that isn't even record breaking and we compare him to a much harder accomplishment?

So the Lions threw it up from behind alot? DHLF already said other WRs have been targetted more often without being able to reproduce the results. Much more impressive to do something that has never been done (even with similar situations or even worse) than it is to take second place.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
I was actually really surprised that Tulloch made it. I think he is deserving though, which is the surprising part Laughing

Considering where other QB's went, Stafford's ranking isn't good enough.

Calvin is >>> Peyton right now, and had a better year as a WR last year than AP did as a RB, so I'd probably put him as #1.


Your not serious?

You really think CJ had a superior year to Peterson?

2097 yds rushing 6.0 YPC 12 TD 40 catches for another 217 yards

CJ had a great year but AP had a fantastic year and carried his team. He had more yards, more yards per game, more TD and none of us can deny the amount of passing the Lions did last year.

I honestly think CJs season was superior.

You are comparing 2 different positions so you have to compare their achievements to others of the same position. CJ broke records with his performance. AP did not. CJ put himself in a position to be in the discussion for the best all time at his position. AP did not.


But you also have to take into consideration other factors such as the amount of passing plays, the amount of targets etc.

CJ was targeted the third most times since 2008 and if you only count regular season he received the most targets since 2008. That really alters the significance of his accomplishment.

He had a great season but his record isn't so great all things considered. The Lions 4-12 record also over shadows the accomplishment in my eyes.

To each their own but a RB carrying for over 2000 yards and maintaining a 6.0 YPC is very significant. CJ for all his receptions couldn't get the ball in the end zone either which is what wins ball games.

Not sure what "since 2008" has to do with anything. So what you are telling me is other players had more targets once upon a time and still couldn't put on an assault on a 15-20 year record. Makes CJs accomplishment that much more significant IMO.

And if TDs and targets are so important, then why aren't targets in the Endzone important? How is it his fault if his # wasn't called because they wanted to use him as a decoy rather than a target?

Also not certain what the record has to do with it. No receiver can make a significant impact on a teams' record with a circus around him. AP had less of a circus(although I still think they got a bit of a circus over there, only 2 instead of 3 rings though)and was allowed to have an impact on his teams record.

Really, that only makes me feel CJs accomplishment was that much more superior than APs

If both broke records, then the conditions of said record may make a difference. But when one did something that had never happened in NFL history and the other didn't. I am not certain conditions are wholly differential whatsoever.


The reason I used 2008 is simply because of the way the game has evolved.

CJ had 13 red zone targets this year. Why do you assume his number wasn't called? He's the go to guy so its more likely he couldn't break coverage. And why is it only red zone targets? Shouldn't he be a threat every time he catches the ball? Peterson had a carry longer than CJ's longest reception

He lead the league in targets Phreak.

Peterson lead the league by a wide margin in YPC.

I do think you have to look at circumstance, chances etc. The Lions set a record for pass attempts and CJ received a large percentage of those targets. He was 10th in yards per catch. 41st in touch downs. He had a great season but that was largely due to volume.

I think you have to consider performance in all categories because a large number in one category doesn't tells the whole story.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
Jrugges wrote:
I also think AP's season was more impressive. He was carrying the load for his team literally offensively; yards and scoring wise. It was extremely impressive to see him run on 8 guys in the box CONSISTENTLY. Stuff I haven't seen from RB's in a long time.

I'm not going to say Calvin's accomplishment wasn't great cause it was, but Lions were just throwing it up a lot from behind quite often in losing/blow out fashion. I don't know why I think that is a detriment to Calvin(getting touches/targets) and it's a strength for A.P. but in my twisted mind/reasoning it is.

But it's also why I'm not going to say you're wrong Phreak. I mean really why is it Calvin's fault he was targeted so many times? Think It's why this is a good argument.

Well by the same token, I have never seen a WR consistently make catches triple covered. Which, to me, is equal to running against 9 or 10 in the box. Calvin saw his version of 8 in the box much more often than AP did. And if the argument is that CJ was targetted that often because that was all we had, well didn't AP carry that often because that is all they had? CJ has carried this team for years. AP shows up for a season that isn't even record breaking and we compare him to a much harder accomplishment?

So the Lions threw it up from behind alot? DHLF already said other WRs have been targetted more often without being able to reproduce the results. Much more impressive to do something that has never been done (even with similar situations or even worse) than it is to take second place.


The Lions have been in the playoffs once.

One time in CJ's career.

And your wrong. What I stated was other receivers had been targeted more in a season including playoffs. Eliminating playoffs CJ has more targets.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
I was actually really surprised that Tulloch made it. I think he is deserving though, which is the surprising part Laughing

Considering where other QB's went, Stafford's ranking isn't good enough.

Calvin is >>> Peyton right now, and had a better year as a WR last year than AP did as a RB, so I'd probably put him as #1.


Your not serious?

You really think CJ had a superior year to Peterson?

2097 yds rushing 6.0 YPC 12 TD 40 catches for another 217 yards

CJ had a great year but AP had a fantastic year and carried his team. He had more yards, more yards per game, more TD and none of us can deny the amount of passing the Lions did last year.

I honestly think CJs season was superior.

You are comparing 2 different positions so you have to compare their achievements to others of the same position. CJ broke records with his performance. AP did not. CJ put himself in a position to be in the discussion for the best all time at his position. AP did not.


But you also have to take into consideration other factors such as the amount of passing plays, the amount of targets etc.

CJ was targeted the third most times since 2008 and if you only count regular season he received the most targets since 2008. That really alters the significance of his accomplishment.

He had a great season but his record isn't so great all things considered. The Lions 4-12 record also over shadows the accomplishment in my eyes.

To each their own but a RB carrying for over 2000 yards and maintaining a 6.0 YPC is very significant. CJ for all his receptions couldn't get the ball in the end zone either which is what wins ball games.

Not sure what "since 2008" has to do with anything. So what you are telling me is other players had more targets once upon a time and still couldn't put on an assault on a 15-20 year record. Makes CJs accomplishment that much more significant IMO.

And if TDs and targets are so important, then why aren't targets in the Endzone important? How is it his fault if his # wasn't called because they wanted to use him as a decoy rather than a target?

Also not certain what the record has to do with it. No receiver can make a significant impact on a teams' record with a circus around him. AP had less of a circus(although I still think they got a bit of a circus over there, only 2 instead of 3 rings though)and was allowed to have an impact on his teams record.

Really, that only makes me feel CJs accomplishment was that much more superior than APs

If both broke records, then the conditions of said record may make a difference. But when one did something that had never happened in NFL history and the other didn't. I am not certain conditions are wholly differential whatsoever.


The reason I used 2008 is simply because of the way the game has evolved.

CJ had 13 red zone targets this year. Why do you assume his number wasn't called? He's the go to guy so its more likely he couldn't break coverage. And why is it only red zone targets? Shouldn't he be a threat every time he catches the ball? Peterson had a carry longer than CJ's longest reception

He lead the league in targets Phreak.

Peterson lead the league by a wide margin in YPC.

I do think you have to look at circumstance, chances etc. The Lions set a record for pass attempts and CJ received a large percentage of those targets. He was 10th in yards per catch. 41st in touch downs. He had a great season but that was largely due to volume.

I think you have to consider performance in all categories because a large number in one category doesn't tells the whole story.

If you look at the bigger picture really, APs situation supported larger numbers much more than CJs.

AP didn't have a QB, WR, or another RB to steal touches from him. He was going to get the ball and get the touches he needed, period.

CJ had to share. You said it yourself, other players over the last 6 years have had more targets, yet were unable to even come close to the record.

I honestly think the bigger picture supports CJ, not AP if you insist on using it in context.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
The Lions have been in the playoffs once.

One time in CJ's career.

Yes? And CJ is dependent on a pretty inaccurate QB? AP just needs to take a handoff? And how precisely is CJ supposed to take this team being coached out of the playoffs and lead them to the playoffs? As well as a lack of talent? Like it or not, it IS a tea msport and there are few positions as dependent on the team as WR in whole.
diehardlionfan wrote:
And your wrong. What I stated was other receivers had been targeted more in a season including playoffs. Eliminating playoffs CJ has more targets.

So what exactly was your point there? I will wait for clarification.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calvin's season was great. Peterson's was stunning. Peterson gets the nod, and (in my opinion) there isn't any question here.
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