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hawksman81


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
I think Tate is getting quite underrated in this thread.

With his unique skill set and rapport with Russ, I think he is one of our core players, though one that we can afford to lose if he does ask for a completely unreasonable contract, which I highly doubt.

Even though he is not the prototypical X receiver, I would be willing to give him a 5 year 20 mil deal. His playmaking ability is just to much to ignore.

The only receiver listed above I would even think about would be Hakeem, and that is only if he comes and takes a discount.
Sooo..............


4 million a year..? Which is what I said Laughing


Yes. Laughing

I must've missed that part in your post and saw what you posted last page.

But I still think we are understating the impact he has on this team in this thread. Losing him would hurt much more than Baldwin IMO.
With Percy at full strength, I whole heartedly disagree.


Golden makes plays downfield that Percy can't. He is more polished as a receiver, even if his style is unorthodox.

There style after getting the ball is similar no doubt, but I have not seen Percy make contested catches in the air more than twice or three times in his career. That is where Golden separates himself.
But I'm not willing to pay someone 6M a year just for that trait...

We could find a guy that makes contested catches and offers us better versatility


Where did you get 6M from? Wasn't 4M what we discussing?

I think Golden is worth every bit of 4M.
I've already said that multiple times, so why would you be arguing that with me in the first place? Laughing

The only logical conclusion I can come to is that you think I'm pricing him too low


I'm just wondering why you threw 6M out there. Laughing

I wonder if Zach Miller is going to become a cap casualty if he does not restructure. I know he is a great blocker, but I am not sure he is worth 7M next year and 6M the next.

If so, ASJ, Ebron, or Jace Amaro become attractive options. Good year to draft a TE.
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imani


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hawksman81 wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
I think Tate is getting quite underrated in this thread.

With his unique skill set and rapport with Russ, I think he is one of our core players, though one that we can afford to lose if he does ask for a completely unreasonable contract, which I highly doubt.

Even though he is not the prototypical X receiver, I would be willing to give him a 5 year 20 mil deal. His playmaking ability is just to much to ignore.

The only receiver listed above I would even think about would be Hakeem, and that is only if he comes and takes a discount.
Sooo..............


4 million a year..? Which is what I said Laughing


Yes. Laughing

I must've missed that part in your post and saw what you posted last page.

But I still think we are understating the impact he has on this team in this thread. Losing him would hurt much more than Baldwin IMO.
With Percy at full strength, I whole heartedly disagree.


Golden makes plays downfield that Percy can't. He is more polished as a receiver, even if his style is unorthodox.

There style after getting the ball is similar no doubt, but I have not seen Percy make contested catches in the air more than twice or three times in his career. That is where Golden separates himself.
But I'm not willing to pay someone 6M a year just for that trait...

We could find a guy that makes contested catches and offers us better versatility


Where did you get 6M from? Wasn't 4M what we discussing?

I think Golden is worth every bit of 4M.
I've already said that multiple times, so why would you be arguing that with me in the first place? Laughing

The only logical conclusion I can come to is that you think I'm pricing him too low


I'm just wondering why you threw 6M out there. Laughing

I wonder if Zach Miller is going to become a cap casualty if he does not restructure. I know he is a great blocker, but I am not sure he is worth 7M next year and 6M the next.

If so, ASJ, Ebron, or Jace Amaro become attractive options. Good year to draft a TE.


Finchy wrote:
Tate is gonna cost a lot more 2.5, probably closer to 6 or 7 a year.


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Finchy


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bargain.
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Meeker


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
Well then I think 4 for 29 is too much


I'd have no problems paying him that much. He is certainly worth more than Red Bryant...


imani wrote:
Great website. Shocked

I see 6 Free Agents to be that we need to at least attempt to bring back

In Order of importance(BP Contract suggestions):

Michael Bennett (5 year, 22 mill)
Steven Hauschka (4 year, 6 mill)
Doug Baldwin (3 year, 12 mill)
Breno Giacomini (3 year, 7 mill)
Golden Tate (4 year, 19 mill)
Tony McDaniel (2 year, $3 Mill)

Guys we may want to take second looks at:

Lemeul Jean-Pierre
Walter Thurmond
O'Brien Schofield
Jeron Johnson

*Warning*

Contract suggestions are lazy ball-park estimations, do not read too much into them.


Thought I'd re-address this...saying they some were way low was exaggeration lol.

Hauschka contract looks good, he might be able to get more elsewhere though.
Baldwin contract looks good.
Giacomini is going to make more, its the nature of the position. He came here on a 2 year 6 mil contract and has outplayed what we expected.
The Tate contract is lower than what I think he will get, which is 5m/y
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meeker wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
Well then I think 4 for 29 is too much


I'd have no problems paying him that much. He is certainly worth more than Red Bryant...
And Red is worth nowhere near his contract. I understand your point, but I don't think it's fair to look at it like that. More of what I mean is that I think he'll get about 6.5 a year on average over the first 4 years of a contract and then they'll backload that 5th year.


Quote:
imani wrote:
Great website. Shocked

I see 6 Free Agents to be that we need to at least attempt to bring back

In Order of importance(BP Contract suggestions):

Michael Bennett (5 year, 22 mill)
Steven Hauschka (4 year, 6 mill)
Doug Baldwin (3 year, 12 mill)
Breno Giacomini (3 year, 7 mill)
Golden Tate (4 year, 19 mill)
Tony McDaniel (2 year, $3 Mill)

Guys we may want to take second looks at:

Lemeul Jean-Pierre
Walter Thurmond
O'Brien Schofield
Jeron Johnson

*Warning*

Contract suggestions are lazy ball-park estimations, do not read too much into them.


Thought I'd re-address this...saying they some were way low was exaggeration lol.

Hauschka contract looks good, he might be able to get more elsewhere though.
Baldwin contract looks good.
Giacomini is going to make more, its the nature of the position. He came here on a 2 year 6 mil contract and has outplayed what we expected.
The Tate contract is lower than what I think he will get, which is 5m/y
Giacomini is just now playing as well as he did when we signed him to that contract, so I would think 10M over 3 years would be sufficient.

I don't think we'll sign Baldwin to a long term deal THIS year if he's asking for more than 2.5 a year, purely because we can tender him at a 2nd rounder this year as a RFA and it will only cost us 2M.
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...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

ram29jackson wrote:
LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael Bennett at his best is what Justin Tuck was at his best imo so I decided to look at his contract he signed in 2009.
http://overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Justin%20Tuck&Position=43DE&Team=Giants

His CAP hit for the first 4 years was 23.1M.

The NFL CAP has only gone up 1% since Tuck signed that deal, meaning if his first 4 years were equivalent in today's NFL, he'd make 23.3M over the first 4. Part of what allows Tuck's deal to be so relatively low is how much he's getting in bonuses/guaranteed money.

Bennett is a guy I'd be comfortable with giving more guaranteed money over those first 3 years especially in exchange for a smaller CAP hit.


The other guy I'd compare Bennett to is Dunlap.
http://overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Carlos%20Dunlap&Position=43DE&Team=Bengals

Over his first 5 years (since his signing of a new deal), he gets 33.3M, or 6.7M a year. Maybe that number is a little closer to what we can expect Bennett to receive.


Either way, the trend is that final year with limited guaranteed money and a high base salary that makes the "average" salary appear higher than it actually is
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BlaqOptic wrote:
...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

ram29jackson wrote:
LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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animaltested


Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 14144
Location: Seattle/Seoul
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meeker wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
Well then I think 4 for 29 is too much


I'd have no problems paying him that much. He is certainly worth more than Red Bryant...


imani wrote:
Great website. Shocked

I see 6 Free Agents to be that we need to at least attempt to bring back

In Order of importance(BP Contract suggestions):

Michael Bennett (5 year, 22 mill)
Steven Hauschka (4 year, 6 mill)
Doug Baldwin (3 year, 12 mill)
Breno Giacomini (3 year, 7 mill)
Golden Tate (4 year, 19 mill)
Tony McDaniel (2 year, $3 Mill)

Guys we may want to take second looks at:

Lemeul Jean-Pierre
Walter Thurmond
O'Brien Schofield
Jeron Johnson

*Warning*

Contract suggestions are lazy ball-park estimations, do not read too much into them.


Thought I'd re-address this...saying they some were way low was exaggeration lol.

Hauschka contract looks good, he might be able to get more elsewhere though.
Baldwin contract looks good.
Giacomini is going to make more, its the nature of the position. He came here on a 2 year 6 mil contract and has outplayed what we expected.
The Tate contract is lower than what I think he will get, which is 5m/y


My feelings.....

With big contracts coming up... (Earl, Sherman, Wilson, Wagner, Wright ect) Im guess the brass will look for bargins. Thusly, the team could lose some key contributers.

Front office might have decided between Baldwin OR Tate. I really dont think investing in both is viable. Mostly because I expect other teams to throw sizable contracts.

Breno is probably gone as well. He has played well when healthy, so another team could throw a moderate contract at him. Booth and Bailey got some experience, and might be a future asset. Maybe the Hawks buy low on a FA, or grab a tackle in the draft. JLP would be a good get, but I think anotehr team might give him starter money. He looked solid in Ungers absence. Might be gone too.

The D-line might be alittle different next year. Would love to resign Bennett, but he might have too steep of a price tag. The front office seems to like a plug and play situation with the DLINE. Buying low on FA, and using them for one or two years. McD will probably go the way of Alan Branch. Maybe the front office will invest a 2nd day pick or two in the line?

Thurmond is interesting. Maybe he resigns at a resonable rate, or maybe another team gives him a sizable starter contract. Maxwell and Lane have filled in decently, and I would be comfortable heading into 2014 with them. Simon, FA or a draft pick could be in the mix as well. Browner is obviously gone.

Maybe we franchise Hauska?
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Franchising Hausch will be more expensive than signing him to a long-term deal.

I don't think we can afford to let Bennett go. I also think your read on our view of DL is off. We locked up Red, Mebane, and Clem for longer deals, those were our playmakers. Then we bring in pieces. I hope the FO is smart enough to realize Bennett's value over Bryant and keeps him instead.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

ram29jackson wrote:
LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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Wee-Bey


Joined: 15 Apr 2013
Posts: 677
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hawksman81 wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
I think Tate is getting quite underrated in this thread.

With his unique skill set and rapport with Russ, I think he is one of our core players, though one that we can afford to lose if he does ask for a completely unreasonable contract, which I highly doubt.

Even though he is not the prototypical X receiver, I would be willing to give him a 5 year 20 mil deal. His playmaking ability is just to much to ignore.

The only receiver listed above I would even think about would be Hakeem, and that is only if he comes and takes a discount.
Sooo..............


4 million a year..? Which is what I said Laughing


Yes. Laughing

I must've missed that part in your post and saw what you posted last page.

But I still think we are understating the impact he has on this team in this thread. Losing him would hurt much more than Baldwin IMO.
With Percy at full strength, I whole heartedly disagree.


Golden makes plays downfield that Percy can't. He is more polished as a receiver, even if his style is unorthodox.

There style after getting the ball is similar no doubt, but I have not seen Percy make contested catches in the air more than twice or three times in his career. That is where Golden separates himself.



http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap1000000077863/Harvin-45-yard-catch

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8255f41d/Harvin-s-clutch-36-yard-catch

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000054614/Ponder-goes-deep-to-Harvin

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000085281/Ponder-to-Harvin-18-yard-TD

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81d48e19/Harvin-46-yd-catch

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d813e3bf5/Percy-Harvin-Highlight-WK-08-vs-Packers-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d82481530/Harvin-s-huge-TD-catch

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81c19114/Favre-finds-Harvin-for-53-yard-score

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d814c8fb6/Percy-Harvin-Highlight-WK-13-vs-Cardinals-2009

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d81b4323a/Harvin-leaps-high-for-second-TD

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d81bc65bb/QB-Favre-to-WR-Harvin-30-yd-pass

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d81ad6bab/QB-Favre-to-WR-Harvin-24-yd-pass-TD

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d81b98d02/QB-Favre-to-WR-Harvin-37-yd-pass

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d81b43bf1/QB-Favre-to-WR-Harvin-34-yd-pass-TD


Dude looks like Mike Wallace/Desean Jackson when he has a QB that can get him the ball.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, yea, he's totally a Mike Wallace/DeSean Jackson like deep threat. Laughing
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But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

imani wrote:
Great website. Shocked

I see 6 Free Agents to be that we need to at least attempt to bring back

In Order of importance(BP Contract suggestions):

Michael Bennett (5 year, 22 mill)
Steven Hauschka (4 year, 6 mill)
Doug Baldwin (3 year, 12 mill)
Breno Giacomini (3 year, 7 mill)
Golden Tate (4 year, 19 mill)
Tony McDaniel (2 year, $3 Mill)

Guys we may want to take second looks at:

Lemeul Jean-Pierre
Walter Thurmond
O'Brien Schofield
Jeron Johnson

*Warning*

Contract suggestions are lazy ball-park estimations, do not read too much into them.


You're shooting low on a few of these, Imani. Bennett and Tate will be looking for 6-7 million a year. Hauschka should be able to get at least 2 million a year...might even get up to 3 million if he goes on the open market.

The Baldwin offer is realistic...might be able to keep him for less(3-4M is realistic though). I've never thought that much of Giacomini so I'd say your offer for him is also pretty realistic.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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Wee-Bey


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Posts: 677
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Haha, yea, he's totally a Mike Wallace/DeSean Jackson like deep threat. Laughing


Quit post padding.
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With the exception of the 4 INTs that Luck threw, he played admirable.
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