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THE BIG CHEEZE


Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:20 pm    Post subject: the cover 2 Reply with quote

Why is everybody saying that Mo and Carr are better suited for man to man. To me they are taller and stiffer than most corners. making it harder to trow over in zone situations. I personally think they will thrive in a cover two system with safety help and less man to man...thoughts?
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Dirk Gently


Joined: 04 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a couple things:

1) the "Tampa 2" isn't really a true cover 2, but a bt of a hybrid with the MLB dropping for a third deep zone, but not quite a true cover 3, either.

2) there will still be man coverages and press/bail coverages within this defense

3)*Generally speaking* man corners need long speed and physicality to run with the receiver and contest the ball, whereas zone corners need more quickness and burst because they are breaking on the ball more than playing the receiver.
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SHSTE92


Joined: 08 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiffin has also said he will play to his team, which means the man press will still have its place. Carr worries me a little but not much in zone, I think Mo is a little more athletic and can learn to handle it better.

Honestly I think it is easier to make man cover corners play zone then to ask the reverse.
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TheStarStillShines


Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Claiborne is 5'11" and Carr is 6', so they both have good size at CB. They're both quite shifty and agile as well. With their combination of size, agility, and strength, they can play bump-and-run coverage. It'll be interesting to see how they adjust to playing more zone.
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atran35


Joined: 22 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious about this also. I have done some reading and it seems to be a scheme that can be use by average CBs with great quickness. Man 2 Man skills are secondary. Someone like a DeAngelo Hall who sucks man 2 man but descent in zone coverage( well sort of ). Does that mean we can eventually free up some money by cutting Carr in the future? Does that mean we put a higher priority in DEs/DTs/LBs?
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SHSTE92


Joined: 08 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atran35 wrote:
I'm curious about this also. I have done some reading and it seems to be a scheme that can be use by average CBs with great quickness. Man 2 Man skills are secondary. Someone like a DeAngelo Hall who sucks man 2 man but descent in zone coverage( well sort of ). Does that mean we can eventually free up some money by cutting Carr in the future? Does that mean we put a higher priority in DEs/DTs/LBs?


I think the progress of Webb, who I love, could also help on pushing out Carr towards the end of the deal. Next year we have to focus on the DL to help fill at-least some young depth that fits the scheme.
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Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know nearly as much about the Cover 2 or the Tampa 2 or what have you. What I do know is this, We have tried several different defenses in the last 10 years and not one of them was able to be effective enough to stop the opposing offense when it mattered most.
I simply do not understand how teams like Pitts, Balt, Philly, NYG seem to field a formidable defense year in and year out. And here we are with Mike Zimmer, Parcells, Rob Ryan and now Kiffin (I'm sure I am leaving a DC or 2 out) and yet we continually have the same issues each year: Not enough turnovers, can't stop the run, get burned deep, can't get pressure.
So I guess what I am saying is, call it what you want, research the BeJesus out of it, but I will believe it works whenI see it. Right now, it seems like just another miserable attempt to fix what has always been broken with this defense: Lack of nastiness, unable to wrap up and tackle (say for Lee and possibly Carter), out of position, can't cover, no Safety help etc etc etc.
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SHSTE92


Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 3508
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
I don't know nearly as much about the Cover 2 or the Tampa 2 or what have you. What I do know is this, We have tried several different defenses in the last 10 years and not one of them was able to be effective enough to stop the opposing offense when it mattered most.
I simply do not understand how teams like Pitts, Balt, Philly, NYG seem to field a formidable defense year in and year out. And here we are with Mike Zimmer, Parcells, Rob Ryan and now Kiffin (I'm sure I am leaving a DC or 2 out) and yet we continually have the same issues each year: Not enough turnovers, can't stop the run, get burned deep, can't get pressure.
So I guess what I am saying is, call it what you want, research the BeJesus out of it, but I will believe it works whenI see it. Right now, it seems like just another miserable attempt to fix what has always been broken with this defense: Lack of nastiness, unable to wrap up and tackle (say for Lee and possibly Carter), out of position, can't cover, no Safety help etc etc etc.


We actually had some very good defensive in those those spans, just not constant. The Tampa 2 is known to force turn overs and aid teams with finesse/speed players rather then big nasties. Lastly it is a much simpler defense, where the player can read and react rather then over think what he is suppose to do and be slow to make a play or get caught out of position.
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Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: the cover 2 Reply with quote

THE BIG CHEEZE wrote:
Why is everybody saying that Mo and Carr are better suited for man to man. To me they are taller and stiffer than most corners. making it harder to trow over in zone situations. I personally think they will thrive in a cover two system with safety help and less man to man...thoughts?


Mo and Carr are longer bodied, distance speed-ed types which usually translate better to man coverages. That distance running speed helps them stay with their guy, and the long bodies usually make for better defense against the pass when their man has a step or two on them (usually due to knowing their route while the corner must guess and react).

But in a zone coverage assignment, the corners must have fast closing speed to react to any receiver entering their portion of the field and get there quickly to stop the pass or make the tackle for no extra yardage following the completion. You have to be tougher and a better tackler than a man coverage guy, and possess more of a better burst of speed than long range speed.

That said, in today's NFL, most corners are more than capable of doing both. Guys who lack in one spot or another usually end up as the nickel back or playing safety instead of corner; most starters nowadays possess the ability to play both zone and man with success. They'll be fine.
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Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dirk Gently wrote:
a couple things:

1) the "Tampa 2" isn't really a true cover 2, but a bt of a hybrid with the MLB dropping for a third deep zone, but not quite a true cover 3, either.

2) there will still be man coverages and press/bail coverages within this defense

3)*Generally speaking* man corners need long speed and physicality to run with the receiver and contest the ball, whereas zone corners need more quickness and burst because they are breaking on the ball more than playing the receiver.
\

Pretty much this in a nutshell, though the Tampa 2 style of cover 2 tends to rely more on full zones than a hybrid style. The hybrid man-zone packages and playcalls where you might find, say, a nickel corner running man coverage among a sea of zone coverages elsewhere, or outside man coverages and zones inside and deep, tend to fit more in zone-blitzing concepts.

The dual coverage styles in the same play allow for mixing and matching to create better matchups for the D while sending a safety or backer in on a rush. This way you don't end up with like, Calvin Johnson running a shallow cross where your backers are blitzing from and leave your DE in zone trying to cover him. Instead, you stick your one man coverage assignment on him so that he won't have such an opportunity.
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