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Any thoughts about Josh Brent?
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The application of the term RKG has, for sometime now, been too narrowly defined by this forum.
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Northland


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
The application of the term RKG has, for sometime now, been too narrowly defined by this forum.


Agree, and I will admit that I am guilty of applying a broad, or broader defintion to it than many. But has it ever been clearly articulated by Garrett or anyone else? If it has I missed it.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northland wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
The application of the term RKG has, for sometime now, been too narrowly defined by this forum.


Agree, and I will admit that I am guilty of applying a broad, or broader defintion to it than many. But has it ever been clearly articulated by Garrett or anyone else? If it has I missed it.


He hasn't. The best I have seen came from either the hoodie or Saban. I forget which. I will see what I can do to find the quote.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dirk Gently wrote:
I've seen some opine that there's civil liability risk if the guy's exonerated. I've seen it opined that the team stands a better chance of getting bonus money back if they wait.

My thoughts are:
a) there's no reason to keep him around other than monetary
b) he's not taking up an actual spot on the 90 man roster, so there's no reason to cut him other than public perception

so

c) I think it's not a big deal, but I'd rather see him gone.


The public perception is the key though, Dirk. It sends a message to the rest of the team that behavior like that will not be tolerated and that the team won't stand by and support it. It makes the players behave in a more disciplined manner if they know they'll be cut immediately following a bad decision. It's all about accountability and culture. As I've said ad nauseum for years, one of the biggest problems with this organization is that no one is held accountable for anything and it breeds complacency.
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Dirk Gently


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do agree, Plan, which is why I said I'd rather see him gone. It is not, however, something that I'm fired up about.

As for RKG, Dawn Macelli took a good look at the concept with her "Way of the Rooster" series over at Blogging the boys.

My take--
Some things that we know, from the mouth of Garrett:

1) they need to meet a certain set of target measurables, probably something like Gil Brandt's

2) they need to really love the game (Dez comes immediately to mind, here) enough to sacrifice for it

3) They need to be great teammates (Troy showing up in support at Irvin's trials, or Emmitt and Moose's relationship as evidenced at Emmitt's HoF induction)

4) They need an ego-- a desire for success-- but in the context of team accomplishment, not individual accomplishment.

From evidence based on Garrett's picks:

1)evidence of leadership skills -- a very high percentage of Garrett's picks were team captains

2) being football intelligent -- able to understand the game and their role in it, quickly and well

3) Flexibility -- a willingness or even desire to contribute in any way they can, at whatever position the coaches ask them to play
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atran35


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This seems to be the work of Jerry Jones. JG would have prob. cut him after the 1st failed drug test.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atran35 wrote:
This seems to be the work of Jerry Jones. JG would have prob. cut him after the 1st failed drug test.


It screams Jerry. He refuses to get rid of players because he has a very hard time separating the business side of the sport from personal loyalty. While admirable on an ethical level, it's a serious organizational flaw in the business model for success. Behavior like Brent's (and Ratliff's) just can't be tolerated.
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chumpy


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: disgraceful Reply with quote

i think that it is a disgrace that he is still part of the cowboys. i am embarrassed that he is still on the team.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dirk Gently wrote:
I do agree, Plan, which is why I said I'd rather see him gone. It is not, however, something that I'm fired up about.


I completely understand. I'm not fired up about it, either. I just think he should've been cut immediately following the incident to ensure the message of personal accountability is slammed home to all of the players on the team. Unfortunately, our team's culture does not adhere to those principles.
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WizardHawk


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Dirk Gently wrote:
I do agree, Plan, which is why I said I'd rather see him gone. It is not, however, something that I'm fired up about.


I completely understand. I'm not fired up about it, either. I just think he should've been cut immediately following the incident to ensure the message of personal accountability is slammed home to all of the players on the team. Unfortunately, our team's culture does not adhere to those principles.


I agree, but to some degree understand the club's position. If I'm not mistaken family of Brown asked organization to support Brent. Not a stance I'd take personally, but can't fault Jones completely.

I may be way off base though.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WizardHawk wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Dirk Gently wrote:
I do agree, Plan, which is why I said I'd rather see him gone. It is not, however, something that I'm fired up about.


I completely understand. I'm not fired up about it, either. I just think he should've been cut immediately following the incident to ensure the message of personal accountability is slammed home to all of the players on the team. Unfortunately, our team's culture does not adhere to those principles.


I agree, but to some degree understand the club's position. If I'm not mistaken family of Brown asked organization to support Brent. Not a stance I'd take personally, but can't fault Jones completely.

I may be way off base though.


The Organization is honoring the request of the Brown family yes. In situations like this the media, the community, and the fans all take seat in deference to the desires of the family.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Dirk Gently wrote:
I do agree, Plan, which is why I said I'd rather see him gone. It is not, however, something that I'm fired up about.


I completely understand. I'm not fired up about it, either. I just think he should've been cut immediately following the incident to ensure the message of personal accountability is slammed home to all of the players on the team. Unfortunately, our team's culture does not adhere to those principles.


I agree, but to some degree understand the club's position. If I'm not mistaken family of Brown asked organization to support Brent. Not a stance I'd take personally, but can't fault Jones completely.

I may be way off base though.


The Organization is honoring the request of the Brown family yes. In situations like this the media, the community, and the fans all take seat in deference to the desires of the family.


They shouldn't. A standard of appropriate behavior needs to be set and adhered to. If that was done initially with people being systematically cut immediately following an infraction, the likelihood of Brent doing what he did would've been reduced. It wouldn't have been eliminated completely, but if the culture of our team was that of zero tolerance, the players would behave more appropriately, so coddling a guy who had a track record of poor decisions and now killed a teammate is unequivocally the wrong decision.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never cared about RKG. Thought it was bs. That said, I think Brent should have been cut a long time ago.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Dirk Gently wrote:
I do agree, Plan, which is why I said I'd rather see him gone. It is not, however, something that I'm fired up about.


I completely understand. I'm not fired up about it, either. I just think he should've been cut immediately following the incident to ensure the message of personal accountability is slammed home to all of the players on the team. Unfortunately, our team's culture does not adhere to those principles.


I agree, but to some degree understand the club's position. If I'm not mistaken family of Brown asked organization to support Brent. Not a stance I'd take personally, but can't fault Jones completely.

I may be way off base though.


The Organization is honoring the request of the Brown family yes. In situations like this the media, the community, and the fans all take seat in deference to the desires of the family.


They shouldn't. A standard of appropriate behavior needs to be set and adhered to. If that was done initially with people being systematically cut immediately following an infraction, the likelihood of Brent doing what he did would've been reduced. It wouldn't have been eliminated completely, but if the culture of our team was that of zero tolerance, the players would behave more appropriately, so coddling a guy who had a track record of poor decisions and now killed a teammate is unequivocally the wrong decision.


Your opinion has been noted. They still don't care. The wishes of the Brown Family are amazingly more important than the views of this forum. Shocking as that may be.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Dirk Gently wrote:
I do agree, Plan, which is why I said I'd rather see him gone. It is not, however, something that I'm fired up about.


I completely understand. I'm not fired up about it, either. I just think he should've been cut immediately following the incident to ensure the message of personal accountability is slammed home to all of the players on the team. Unfortunately, our team's culture does not adhere to those principles.


I agree, but to some degree understand the club's position. If I'm not mistaken family of Brown asked organization to support Brent. Not a stance I'd take personally, but can't fault Jones completely.

I may be way off base though.


The Organization is honoring the request of the Brown family yes. In situations like this the media, the community, and the fans all take seat in deference to the desires of the family.


They shouldn't. A standard of appropriate behavior needs to be set and adhered to. If that was done initially with people being systematically cut immediately following an infraction, the likelihood of Brent doing what he did would've been reduced. It wouldn't have been eliminated completely, but if the culture of our team was that of zero tolerance, the players would behave more appropriately, so coddling a guy who had a track record of poor decisions and now killed a teammate is unequivocally the wrong decision.


Your opinion has been noted. They still don't care. The wishes of the Brown Family are amazingly more important than the views of this forum. Shocking as that may be.


Now understand the big picture: if the team had taken the appropriate steps to implement a zero tolerance policy to begin with, the wishes of the Brown family would never be an issue because their son would still be alive. THAT'S why you cut him. I don't care about their wishes and neither should the organization. Keeping other people from making the same or similar mistakes is much more important. It's about personal accountability, T_O7. The Brown family doesn't seem to get that, either.
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