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Naq


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan25 wrote:
That's stupid. You don't trade an elite RB two games into his 2nd season.


He is not elite. Alfred Morris, who went undrafted in the same class, is more "elite" then Richardson
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Iron_man


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad day for Tom Coughlin. His little brother died in a freak accident today. Poor guy, I know I'd feel crushed if I lost my brother.
Here's the story: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/giants-coach-loses-brother-freak-taxi-fall-article-1.1460563
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naq wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
That's stupid. You don't trade an elite RB two games into his 2nd season.


He is not elite. Alfred Morris, who went undrafted in the same class, is more "elite" then Richardson


I think a lot of people are still thinking he's "elite" because he was (stupidly) selected 3rd overall.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iron_man wrote:
Sad day for Tom Coughlin. His little brother died today in a freak accident today. Poor guy, I know I'd feel crushed if I lost my brother.
Here's the story: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/giants-coach-loses-brother-freak-taxi-fall-article-1.1460563


That's terrible to hear, too bad.
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patsfan25


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naq wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
That's stupid. You don't trade an elite RB two games into his 2nd season.


He is not elite. Alfred Morris, who went undrafted in the same class, is more "elite" then Richardson


I never made the notion hat Richardson was elite, rather at the statement of trading an actual young elite RB away early in his career as Murt mentioned.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan25 wrote:
Naq wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
That's stupid. You don't trade an elite RB two games into his 2nd season.


He is not elite. Alfred Morris, who went undrafted in the same class, is more "elite" then Richardson


I never made the notion hat Richardson was elite, rather at the statement of trading an actual young elite RB away early in his career as Murt mentioned.


Having an elite RB on an awful team with no QB is a waste of resources. Chances are that 1st round pick is going to have as much or more value to the franchise than an elite back.

Let's say Richardson were elite. By the time the team finds its QB and that QB is capable of winning a Super Bowl, Richardson - assuming no decline or injury - will most likely be in his 4th or 5th season and due a big contract (his rookie deal will be ending or over).

Your RB should be your last piece. You cannot win in the NFL without a QB (barring a historically good defense) and without a QB, you're just wasting an elite RB by chewing up the best years of his career.
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patsfan25


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
Naq wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
That's stupid. You don't trade an elite RB two games into his 2nd season.


He is not elite. Alfred Morris, who went undrafted in the same class, is more "elite" then Richardson


I never made the notion hat Richardson was elite, rather at the statement of trading an actual young elite RB away early in his career as Murt mentioned.


Having an elite RB on an awful team with no QB is a waste of resources. Chances are that 1st round pick is going to have as much or more value to the franchise than an elite back.

Let's say Richardson were elite. By the time the team finds its QB and that QB is capable of winning a Super Bowl, Richardson - assuming no decline or injury - will most likely be in his 4th or 5th season and due a big contract (his rookie deal will be ending or over).

Your RB should be your last piece. You cannot win in the NFL without a QB (barring a historically good defense) and without a QB, you're just wasting an elite RB by chewing up the best years of his career.


Thats not exactly how it always has to pan out though. The team could build as good as they have the ability to. It makes sense in Richardson's case, sure, but hypothetically it is stupid to trade an elite RB one year into his career. And I'd say having an elite RB would be third to QB and LT in building an offense. That's 3rd out of 11 positions. Pretty important if you ask me.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan25 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
Naq wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
That's stupid. You don't trade an elite RB two games into his 2nd season.


He is not elite. Alfred Morris, who went undrafted in the same class, is more "elite" then Richardson


I never made the notion hat Richardson was elite, rather at the statement of trading an actual young elite RB away early in his career as Murt mentioned.


Having an elite RB on an awful team with no QB is a waste of resources. Chances are that 1st round pick is going to have as much or more value to the franchise than an elite back.

Let's say Richardson were elite. By the time the team finds its QB and that QB is capable of winning a Super Bowl, Richardson - assuming no decline or injury - will most likely be in his 4th or 5th season and due a big contract (his rookie deal will be ending or over).

Your RB should be your last piece. You cannot win in the NFL without a QB (barring a historically good defense) and without a QB, you're just wasting an elite RB by chewing up the best years of his career.


Thats not exactly how it always has to pan out though. The team could build as good as they have the ability to. It makes sense in Richardson's case, sure, but hypothetically it is stupid to trade an elite RB one year into his career. And I'd say having an elite RB would be third to QB and LT in building an offense. That's 3rd out of 11 positions. Pretty important if you ask me.


Double post
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan25 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
Naq wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
That's stupid. You don't trade an elite RB two games into his 2nd season.


He is not elite. Alfred Morris, who went undrafted in the same class, is more "elite" then Richardson


I never made the notion hat Richardson was elite, rather at the statement of trading an actual young elite RB away early in his career as Murt mentioned.


Having an elite RB on an awful team with no QB is a waste of resources. Chances are that 1st round pick is going to have as much or more value to the franchise than an elite back.

Let's say Richardson were elite. By the time the team finds its QB and that QB is capable of winning a Super Bowl, Richardson - assuming no decline or injury - will most likely be in his 4th or 5th season and due a big contract (his rookie deal will be ending or over).

Your RB should be your last piece. You cannot win in the NFL without a QB (barring a historically good defense) and without a QB, you're just wasting an elite RB by chewing up the best years of his career.


Thats not exactly how it always has to pan out though. The team could build as good as they have the ability to. It makes sense in Richardson's case, sure, but hypothetically it is stupid to trade an elite RB one year into his career. And I'd say having an elite RB would be third to QB and LT in building an offense. That's 3rd out of 11 positions. Pretty important if you ask me.


How many top offenses have had elite backs over the last 20 years? How many Super Bowl teams have had an elite RB? A few, but not many. Most of the most productive and successful offenses have done it with average or good-not-great backs.

If you have your QB and a good cast around him (WR, OL) then yeah it makes sense to try to find a top shelf RB if you have the resources. But a rebuilding team with a lot of holes and no QB is just wasting assets by keeping a top RB on the roster. Jones-Drew and Steven Jackson over the past few years (before they declined) are good examples. What is Peterson ever going to win in Minnesota? By the time they fix their QB situation, the bulk of his prime is going to have been wasted.

The best years of a RB's career are usually his first 4-5 especially when you factor in salary. How many top offenses can afford to re-sign an elite back once they establish a good level of talent at QB, WR and OL? Not many. The NFL these days necessitates having a lot if money invested in non-RB positions, which given the relative pools of talent and shelf lives of each position make every non-RB position a better and smarter investment.
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patsfan25


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
Naq wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
That's stupid. You don't trade an elite RB two games into his 2nd season.


He is not elite. Alfred Morris, who went undrafted in the same class, is more "elite" then Richardson


I never made the notion hat Richardson was elite, rather at the statement of trading an actual young elite RB away early in his career as Murt mentioned.


Having an elite RB on an awful team with no QB is a waste of resources. Chances are that 1st round pick is going to have as much or more value to the franchise than an elite back.

Let's say Richardson were elite. By the time the team finds its QB and that QB is capable of winning a Super Bowl, Richardson - assuming no decline or injury - will most likely be in his 4th or 5th season and due a big contract (his rookie deal will be ending or over).

Your RB should be your last piece. You cannot win in the NFL without a QB (barring a historically good defense) and without a QB, you're just wasting an elite RB by chewing up the best years of his career.


Thats not exactly how it always has to pan out though. The team could build as good as they have the ability to. It makes sense in Richardson's case, sure, but hypothetically it is stupid to trade an elite RB one year into his career. And I'd say having an elite RB would be third to QB and LT in building an offense. That's 3rd out of 11 positions. Pretty important if you ask me.


How many top offenses have had elite backs over the last 20 years? How many Super Bowl teams have had an elite RB? A few, but not many. Most of the most productive and successful offenses have done it with average or good-not-great backs.

If you have your QB and a good cast around him (WR, OL) then yeah it makes sense to try to find a top shelf RB if you have the resources. But a rebuilding team with a lot of holes and no QB is just wasting assets by keeping a top RB on the roster. Jones-Drew and Steven Jackson over the past few years (before they declined) are good examples. What is Peterson ever going to win in Minnesota? By the time they fix their QB situation, the bulk of his prime is going to have been wasted.

The best years of a RB's career are usually his first 4-5 especially when you factor in salary. How many top offenses can afford to re-sign an elite back once they establish a good level of talent at QB, WR and OL? Not many. The NFL these days necessitates having a lot if money invested in non-RB positions, which given the relative pools of talent and shelf lives of each position make every non-RB position a better and smarter investment.


Sure. But that had nothing to do with your original statement: Trading an elite RB one year into his career, on his rookie contract.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan25 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
Naq wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
That's stupid. You don't trade an elite RB two games into his 2nd season.


He is not elite. Alfred Morris, who went undrafted in the same class, is more "elite" then Richardson


I never made the notion hat Richardson was elite, rather at the statement of trading an actual young elite RB away early in his career as Murt mentioned.


Having an elite RB on an awful team with no QB is a waste of resources. Chances are that 1st round pick is going to have as much or more value to the franchise than an elite back.

Let's say Richardson were elite. By the time the team finds its QB and that QB is capable of winning a Super Bowl, Richardson - assuming no decline or injury - will most likely be in his 4th or 5th season and due a big contract (his rookie deal will be ending or over).

Your RB should be your last piece. You cannot win in the NFL without a QB (barring a historically good defense) and without a QB, you're just wasting an elite RB by chewing up the best years of his career.


Thats not exactly how it always has to pan out though. The team could build as good as they have the ability to. It makes sense in Richardson's case, sure, but hypothetically it is stupid to trade an elite RB one year into his career. And I'd say having an elite RB would be third to QB and LT in building an offense. That's 3rd out of 11 positions. Pretty important if you ask me.


How many top offenses have had elite backs over the last 20 years? How many Super Bowl teams have had an elite RB? A few, but not many. Most of the most productive and successful offenses have done it with average or good-not-great backs.

If you have your QB and a good cast around him (WR, OL) then yeah it makes sense to try to find a top shelf RB if you have the resources. But a rebuilding team with a lot of holes and no QB is just wasting assets by keeping a top RB on the roster. Jones-Drew and Steven Jackson over the past few years (before they declined) are good examples. What is Peterson ever going to win in Minnesota? By the time they fix their QB situation, the bulk of his prime is going to have been wasted.

The best years of a RB's career are usually his first 4-5 especially when you factor in salary. How many top offenses can afford to re-sign an elite back once they establish a good level of talent at QB, WR and OL? Not many. The NFL these days necessitates having a lot if money invested in non-RB positions, which given the relative pools of talent and shelf lives of each position make every non-RB position a better and smarter investment.


Sure. But that had nothing to do with your original statement: Trading an elite RB one year into his career, on his rookie contract.


What? My original statement which you said you were responding to was "even if we lived in a world where Richardson were an elite back, I'd still like this deal for Cleveland"

It has everything to do with my argument that rebuilding offenses have no need for an elite back until they get the other pieces in place. By the time the Browns get their QB situation resolved, hypothetically elite Richardson will have played for 4 years and will need a new (very expensive) contract which will be prohibitive. Meanwhile 4 of his best years would have been wasted.

IMO no rebuilding team or team without a franchise QB should turn down a 1st rounder in-season for their RB regardless of how good that guy is.
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Billy Spikes


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aldon Smith is heading towards the Von Miller path...

Quote:
San Jose Police say Aldon Smith was arrested after being involved in a single-vehicle crash. No injuries reported.


https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/381098753421504512

Quote:
49ers OLB Aldon Smith was arrested at 7 a.m. today under suspicion of DUI, according to San Jose Police.


https://twitter.com/MaioccoCSN/status/381097290389147648

Quote:
Smith took a breathalyzer test that tested over the limit. Police have no information at this point on his blood-alcohol level.


https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/381099028865622016

Quote:
"Marijuana and pills also were found in the car" in DUI arrest of #49ers star Aldon Smith in San Jose. Smith had a blood alcohol level of .15 -- nearly twice the legal limit


https://twitter.com/robertsalonga/status/381117207633072128

This isn't the first time Aldon Smith was arrested for DUI, he was also arrested in 2012.


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SFPatsFan


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy Spikes wrote:
Aldon Smith is heading towards the Von Miller path...

Quote:
San Jose Police say Aldon Smith was arrested after being involved in a single-vehicle crash. No injuries reported.


https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/381098753421504512

Quote:
49ers OLB Aldon Smith was arrested at 7 a.m. today under suspicion of DUI, according to San Jose Police.


https://twitter.com/MaioccoCSN/status/381097290389147648

Quote:
Smith took a breathalyzer test that tested over the limit. Police have no information at this point on his blood-alcohol level.


https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/381099028865622016

Quote:
"Marijuana and pills also were found in the car" in DUI arrest of #49ers star Aldon Smith in San Jose. Smith had a blood alcohol level of .15 -- nearly twice the legal limit


https://twitter.com/robertsalonga/status/381117207633072128

This isn't the first time Aldon Smith was arrested for DUI, he was also arrested in 2012.


I'm really starting to dislike him a lot. When he was drafted I thought it was high but I liked him as a player. Now he's proving he's a total idiot and he can't even perform when Justin Smith isn't there to help him.
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Billy Spikes


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the official twitter account of the Santa Clara County Sheriff's Office:

Quote:
Aldon Smith was booked into SCC Main Jail today on charges of DUI and poss. of marijuana.


https://twitter.com/SCCoSheriff/status/381118870896902145

The new mugshot from today's arrest:


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NinjaZX6R


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denver tried to trade for Joe Thomas. Browns said no.
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