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AFC North Best 53 - WR
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Best WR
Torrey Smith
50%
 50%  [ 14 ]
Josh Gordon
42%
 42%  [ 12 ]
Antonio Brown
7%
 7%  [ 2 ]
Emmanuel Sanders
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Greg Little
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 28

Author Message
nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 20986
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:28 pm    Post subject: AFC North Best 53 - WR Reply with quote

WR Addition

Who ya got?

I put Green in just for the sake of the server.

The two guys with the highest votes will get in.

Quote:
I'm sort of stealing this idea from another forum, but they basically held votes on each position, determining which players in our division would start to make the best 53 man roster.


I'd basically like to Hold a vote for each position and let us debate each other.

I'd like to start this with the obvious QB position.

Due to how the division shakes out, I will use a 3-4 for the defense.


Note: This will be for the team going forward, and not just this year.

It's who do you want on your team going forward.



QB. Big Ben , Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton
HB. Ray Rice, Trent Richardson
TE. Heath Miller, Dennis Pitta
WR. AJ Green,
LT.
LG.
OC.
RG.
RT.

DE.
NT.
DE.
OLB.
ILB.
ILB.
OLB.
CB.
FS.
SS.
CB.

K.
P.
KR.
PR.

HC.
OC.
DC.

GM.
Owner.
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 20986
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tough one here I think


Gordon and Smith are the top 2 after Green.

I think that is a toss up there but since Gordon prides himself on taunting Clevelanders about his love for Lebron, I'm voting Smith.

Suck it
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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gordan has #1 potential. I dont think smith does. And gordon proved last year hes as much of a vertical threat as smith.
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RavensDefense3


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 1046
Location: Baltimore
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
Gordan has #1 potential. I dont think smith does. And gordon proved last year hes as much of a vertical threat as smith.


Why doesn't Smith have #1 potential? Smith has all pro potential, he has freaky athleticism, and an amazing work ethic.

Smith led the league in drawn flags with 15, that's 300+ yards, and a couple of TD's that are missing from his stats. Even without the flags, Smith had superior stats to Gordon in pretty much every category in 15 games. Not to mention the Ravens had more quality weaopens to use in the passing game(Smith, Boldin, Pitta, and Rice) than the Browns which could've lowered his stats.
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 5890
Location: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensDefense3 wrote:
bulldog wrote:
Gordan has #1 potential. I dont think smith does. And gordon proved last year hes as much of a vertical threat as smith.


Why doesn't Smith have #1 potential? Smith has all pro potential, he has freaky athleticism, and an amazing work ethic.

Smith led the league in drawn flags with 15, that's 300+ yards, and a couple of TD's that are missing from his stats. Even without the flags, Smith had superior stats to Gordon in pretty much every category in 15 games. Not to mention the Ravens had more quality weaopens to use in the passing game(Smith, Boldin, Pitta, and Rice) than the Browns which could've lowered his stats.


Does he have Russell Wilson work ethic though?

"He had more weapons along side him" can work for and against him. I can say Gordon had less weapons around him so he garnered more attention from defenses. You could also say Flacco is awesome and Weeden sucks to help Josh's argument, but i don't think there will be much of a seperation between the two QB's this year, so I won't use that.

As far as having superior stats, one less catch, 50 more yards and 3 more TD's isn't much superior. Smith didn't progress stat wise from year 1 to year 2. If Gordon (he will be missing the 1st two games of the season) takes a medium size step in year 2 and Smith continues to stay the course, it will be Gordon in a landslide next year at this time.

As far as this year, it is pretty close.
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RavensDefense3


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 1046
Location: Baltimore
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
RavensDefense3 wrote:
bulldog wrote:
Gordan has #1 potential. I dont think smith does. And gordon proved last year hes as much of a vertical threat as smith.


Why doesn't Smith have #1 potential? Smith has all pro potential, he has freaky athleticism, and an amazing work ethic.

Smith led the league in drawn flags with 15, that's 300+ yards, and a couple of TD's that are missing from his stats. Even without the flags, Smith had superior stats to Gordon in pretty much every category in 15 games. Not to mention the Ravens had more quality weaopens to use in the passing game(Smith, Boldin, Pitta, and Rice) than the Browns which could've lowered his stats.


Does he have Russell Wilson work ethic though?

"He had more weapons along side him" can work for and against him. I can say Gordon had less weapons around him so he garnered more attention from defenses. You could also say Flacco is awesome and Weeden sucks to help Josh's argument, but i don't think there will be much of a seperation between the two QB's this year, so I won't use that.

As far as having superior stats, one less catch, 50 more yards and 3 more TD's isn't much superior. Smith didn't progress stat wise from year 1 to year 2. If Gordon (he will be missing the 1st two games of the season) takes a medium size step in year 2 and Smith continues to stay the course, it will be Gordon in a landslide next year at this time.

As far as this year, it is pretty close.



You pretty much ignored my main point, where I said Smith had 300+ Yards, and a few touchdowns missing from his stats. If we add onto his regular season stats, that's 1100+ Yards, and 9 TDs. He led the league in drawn flags with 15, that's more than some teams by themselves.

I don't know anything about Rusell Wilson's work ethic, but Torrey has amazing work ethic. He would wake up at 5 AM just to catch balls and run routes.
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 5890
Location: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensDefense3 wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
RavensDefense3 wrote:
bulldog wrote:
Gordan has #1 potential. I dont think smith does. And gordon proved last year hes as much of a vertical threat as smith.


Why doesn't Smith have #1 potential? Smith has all pro potential, he has freaky athleticism, and an amazing work ethic.

Smith led the league in drawn flags with 15, that's 300+ yards, and a couple of TD's that are missing from his stats. Even without the flags, Smith had superior stats to Gordon in pretty much every category in 15 games. Not to mention the Ravens had more quality weaopens to use in the passing game(Smith, Boldin, Pitta, and Rice) than the Browns which could've lowered his stats.


Does he have Russell Wilson work ethic though?

"He had more weapons along side him" can work for and against him. I can say Gordon had less weapons around him so he garnered more attention from defenses. You could also say Flacco is awesome and Weeden sucks to help Josh's argument, but i don't think there will be much of a seperation between the two QB's this year, so I won't use that.

As far as having superior stats, one less catch, 50 more yards and 3 more TD's isn't much superior. Smith didn't progress stat wise from year 1 to year 2. If Gordon (he will be missing the 1st two games of the season) takes a medium size step in year 2 and Smith continues to stay the course, it will be Gordon in a landslide next year at this time.

As far as this year, it is pretty close.



You pretty much ignored my main point, where I said Smith had 300+ Yards, and a few touchdowns missing from his stats. If we add onto his regular season stats, that's 1100+ Yards, and 9 TDs. He led the league in drawn flags with 15, that's more than some teams by themselves.

I don't know anything about Rusell Wilson's work ethic, but Torrey has amazing work ethic. He would wake up at 5 AM just to catch balls and run routes.


I don't care about flags thrown, I would have to look at and evaluate each penalty and I'm not going to do that. You are also assuming he makes every one of those catches and there is no way to prove that. He doesn't get those added on, sorry.
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 6981
Location: Rocky River, OH
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see where this is going.

At the end, we (maybe) only have the best LT and CB, still.
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RavensDefense3


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 1046
Location: Baltimore
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
RavensDefense3 wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
RavensDefense3 wrote:
bulldog wrote:
Gordan has #1 potential. I dont think smith does. And gordon proved last year hes as much of a vertical threat as smith.


Why doesn't Smith have #1 potential? Smith has all pro potential, he has freaky athleticism, and an amazing work ethic.

Smith led the league in drawn flags with 15, that's 300+ yards, and a couple of TD's that are missing from his stats. Even without the flags, Smith had superior stats to Gordon in pretty much every category in 15 games. Not to mention the Ravens had more quality weaopens to use in the passing game(Smith, Boldin, Pitta, and Rice) than the Browns which could've lowered his stats.


Does he have Russell Wilson work ethic though?

"He had more weapons along side him" can work for and against him. I can say Gordon had less weapons around him so he garnered more attention from defenses. You could also say Flacco is awesome and Weeden sucks to help Josh's argument, but i don't think there will be much of a seperation between the two QB's this year, so I won't use that.

As far as having superior stats, one less catch, 50 more yards and 3 more TD's isn't much superior. Smith didn't progress stat wise from year 1 to year 2. If Gordon (he will be missing the 1st two games of the season) takes a medium size step in year 2 and Smith continues to stay the course, it will be Gordon in a landslide next year at this time.

As far as this year, it is pretty close.



You pretty much ignored my main point, where I said Smith had 300+ Yards, and a few touchdowns missing from his stats. If we add onto his regular season stats, that's 1100+ Yards, and 9 TDs. He led the league in drawn flags with 15, that's more than some teams by themselves.

I don't know anything about Rusell Wilson's work ethic, but Torrey has amazing work ethic. He would wake up at 5 AM just to catch balls and run routes.


I don't care about flags thrown, I would have to look at and evaluate each penalty and I'm not going to do that. You are also assuming he makes every one of those catches and there is no way to prove that. He doesn't get those added on, sorry.


You don't care about flags drawn? Why? It's a legit stat. At the end of the day you're just choosing to ignore the fact that Torrey had a bigger impact than Josh Gordon last year. And even if he didn't couldn't catch all of those passes, he would certainly have most of them down.
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 5890
Location: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensDefense3 wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
RavensDefense3 wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
RavensDefense3 wrote:
bulldog wrote:
Gordan has #1 potential. I dont think smith does. And gordon proved last year hes as much of a vertical threat as smith.


Why doesn't Smith have #1 potential? Smith has all pro potential, he has freaky athleticism, and an amazing work ethic.

Smith led the league in drawn flags with 15, that's 300+ yards, and a couple of TD's that are missing from his stats. Even without the flags, Smith had superior stats to Gordon in pretty much every category in 15 games. Not to mention the Ravens had more quality weaopens to use in the passing game(Smith, Boldin, Pitta, and Rice) than the Browns which could've lowered his stats.


Does he have Russell Wilson work ethic though?

"He had more weapons along side him" can work for and against him. I can say Gordon had less weapons around him so he garnered more attention from defenses. You could also say Flacco is awesome and Weeden sucks to help Josh's argument, but i don't think there will be much of a seperation between the two QB's this year, so I won't use that.

As far as having superior stats, one less catch, 50 more yards and 3 more TD's isn't much superior. Smith didn't progress stat wise from year 1 to year 2. If Gordon (he will be missing the 1st two games of the season) takes a medium size step in year 2 and Smith continues to stay the course, it will be Gordon in a landslide next year at this time.

As far as this year, it is pretty close.



You pretty much ignored my main point, where I said Smith had 300+ Yards, and a few touchdowns missing from his stats. If we add onto his regular season stats, that's 1100+ Yards, and 9 TDs. He led the league in drawn flags with 15, that's more than some teams by themselves.

I don't know anything about Rusell Wilson's work ethic, but Torrey has amazing work ethic. He would wake up at 5 AM just to catch balls and run routes.


I don't care about flags thrown, I would have to look at and evaluate each penalty and I'm not going to do that. You are also assuming he makes every one of those catches and there is no way to prove that. He doesn't get those added on, sorry.


You don't care about flags drawn? Why? It's a legit stat. At the end of the day you're just choosing to ignore the fact that Torrey had a bigger impact than Josh Gordon last year. And even if he didn't couldn't catch all of those passes, he would certainly have most of them down.


It is a dumb stat. DPI being a spot penalty is a dumb rule. You are basing the yardage on what might have been, sometimes 40 yards down the field. That is like giving a defender an interception every time there is OPI.

Who is to say they were all legit calls? Too many questions to add them to a players repertoire. The Steelers fans will say James Harrison owns the sack record at 67 because he was held 52 times when he would have had a sack otherwise.

I just refuse to factor that into my assessment. I don't have an issue with anyone voting for Smith over Gordon, unless it is because of the number of flags defenses had thrown at them.
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cthomas09


Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 8077
Location: ohio
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like smith but this flag thrown argument you are using is a joke.....are we going to say josh would have had 7 more touchdowns if weeden didnt miss him....no so take that weak stuff out of here.
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cthomas09


Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 8077
Location: ohio
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To add i would really like to see what boldin being gone will do to smiths production. Will it help him or hurt him. Baltimore really understates the loss of him.
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RavensDefense3


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 1046
Location: Baltimore
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cthomas09 wrote:
To add i would really like to see what boldin being gone will do to smiths production. Will it help him or hurt him. Baltimore really understates the loss of him.


The same really, Smith was already facing #1 CBs, and double teams.
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RavensDefense3


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
RavensDefense3 wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
RavensDefense3 wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
RavensDefense3 wrote:
bulldog wrote:
Gordan has #1 potential. I dont think smith does. And gordon proved last year hes as much of a vertical threat as smith.


Why doesn't Smith have #1 potential? Smith has all pro potential, he has freaky athleticism, and an amazing work ethic.

Smith led the league in drawn flags with 15, that's 300+ yards, and a couple of TD's that are missing from his stats. Even without the flags, Smith had superior stats to Gordon in pretty much every category in 15 games. Not to mention the Ravens had more quality weaopens to use in the passing game(Smith, Boldin, Pitta, and Rice) than the Browns which could've lowered his stats.


Does he have Russell Wilson work ethic though?

"He had more weapons along side him" can work for and against him. I can say Gordon had less weapons around him so he garnered more attention from defenses. You could also say Flacco is awesome and Weeden sucks to help Josh's argument, but i don't think there will be much of a seperation between the two QB's this year, so I won't use that.

As far as having superior stats, one less catch, 50 more yards and 3 more TD's isn't much superior. Smith didn't progress stat wise from year 1 to year 2. If Gordon (he will be missing the 1st two games of the season) takes a medium size step in year 2 and Smith continues to stay the course, it will be Gordon in a landslide next year at this time.

As far as this year, it is pretty close.



You pretty much ignored my main point, where I said Smith had 300+ Yards, and a few touchdowns missing from his stats. If we add onto his regular season stats, that's 1100+ Yards, and 9 TDs. He led the league in drawn flags with 15, that's more than some teams by themselves.

I don't know anything about Rusell Wilson's work ethic, but Torrey has amazing work ethic. He would wake up at 5 AM just to catch balls and run routes.


I don't care about flags thrown, I would have to look at and evaluate each penalty and I'm not going to do that. You are also assuming he makes every one of those catches and there is no way to prove that. He doesn't get those added on, sorry.


You don't care about flags drawn? Why? It's a legit stat. At the end of the day you're just choosing to ignore the fact that Torrey had a bigger impact than Josh Gordon last year. And even if he didn't couldn't catch all of those passes, he would certainly have most of them down.


It is a dumb stat. DPI being a spot penalty is a dumb rule. You are basing the yardage on what might have been, sometimes 40 yards down the field. That is like giving a defender an interception every time there is OPI.

Who is to say they were all legit calls? Too many questions to add them to a players repertoire. The Steelers fans will say James Harrison owns the sack record at 67 because he was held 52 times when he would have had a sack otherwise.

I just refuse to factor that into my assessment. I don't have an issue with anyone voting for Smith over Gordon, unless it is because of the number of flags defenses had thrown at them.


It's really not, why do you think DBs held him in the first place? Because they were getting burned, and knew that if they didn't hold him they would get beat. DBs don't just hold players for no reason. And in Smith's case it wasn't luck, he was annually getting held, he had more flags drawn than some team by themselves.
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RavensDefense3


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cthomas09 wrote:
I like smith but this flag thrown argument you are using is a joke.....are we going to say josh would have had 7 more touchdowns if weeden didnt miss him....no so take that weak stuff out of here.


What? I'm sorrry, but that doesn't even make sense, you're using an IF argument, my argument is LEGIT, Smith led the league in flags drawn, and no it's not a joke stat like some of you guys are thinking it is.
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