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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 57792
Location: Omaha
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
TheROARisBACK wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
I like most of the write ups. I think you undervalue Ansah and Jason Jones a little bit, and I think you're overrating the loss of Durant. Other than that I really like the analysis.


I agree.

Considering Ansah is penciled in as the starting RDE, I believe he will be an upgrade over KVB, and while Jones won't put up those 9 sacks left by Avril but I feel the defensive line as a whole plays better.

The one who I feel is lost in all of this is Ronnell Lewis. I really don't see where he fits.


Not sure how a rookie DE that is raw is immediate upgrade. That is nonsense. It takes players a while to adjust to the game. Long term he may be but short term it's easy downgrade


You really think Ansah will be worse this year than KVB was last year?


I think it's going to take him time to adjust to nfl talent and experience yes


KVB was arguably the worst starting DE in the league last year.


Even if this was true which I think there were worse a rookie is arguably worse from day 1 then an avg or below avg vet


Name some DEs you think were worse.

Frankly, 3.5 sacks from an end playing in the wide nine next to two of the better DTs in the league is abysmal. And he was worse against the run.


I dont have names. Simply saying I dont feel he was that bad

Like I said a rookie is worse then worst DE in league until proven otherwise. People acting like it is immediate upgrade simply are ignoring fact he has to adjust. He never played top competition and is extremely raw.
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BlackandBlue


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
TheROARisBACK wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
I like most of the write ups. I think you undervalue Ansah and Jason Jones a little bit, and I think you're overrating the loss of Durant. Other than that I really like the analysis.


I agree.

Considering Ansah is penciled in as the starting RDE, I believe he will be an upgrade over KVB, and while Jones won't put up those 9 sacks left by Avril but I feel the defensive line as a whole plays better.

The one who I feel is lost in all of this is Ronnell Lewis. I really don't see where he fits.


Not sure how a rookie DE that is raw is immediate upgrade. That is nonsense. It takes players a while to adjust to the game. Long term he may be but short term it's easy downgrade


You really think Ansah will be worse this year than KVB was last year?


I think it's going to take him time to adjust to nfl talent and experience yes


KVB was arguably the worst starting DE in the league last year.


Even if this was true which I think there were worse a rookie is arguably worse from day 1 then an avg or below avg vet


Name some DEs you think were worse.

Frankly, 3.5 sacks from an end playing in the wide nine next to two of the better DTs in the league is abysmal. And he was worse against the run.


I dont have names. Simply saying I dont feel he was that bad

Like I said a rookie is worse then worst DE in league until proven otherwise. People acting like it is immediate upgrade simply are ignoring fact he has to adjust. He never played top competition and is extremely raw.


Did you feel the same about Calvin Johnson? Suh? Reiff?
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 57792
Location: Omaha
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
TheROARisBACK wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
I like most of the write ups. I think you undervalue Ansah and Jason Jones a little bit, and I think you're overrating the loss of Durant. Other than that I really like the analysis.


I agree.

Considering Ansah is penciled in as the starting RDE, I believe he will be an upgrade over KVB, and while Jones won't put up those 9 sacks left by Avril but I feel the defensive line as a whole plays better.

The one who I feel is lost in all of this is Ronnell Lewis. I really don't see where he fits.


Not sure how a rookie DE that is raw is immediate upgrade. That is nonsense. It takes players a while to adjust to the game. Long term he may be but short term it's easy downgrade


You really think Ansah will be worse this year than KVB was last year?


I think it's going to take him time to adjust to nfl talent and experience yes


KVB was arguably the worst starting DE in the league last year.


Even if this was true which I think there were worse a rookie is arguably worse from day 1 then an avg or below avg vet


Name some DEs you think were worse.

Frankly, 3.5 sacks from an end playing in the wide nine next to two of the better DTs in the league is abysmal. And he was worse against the run.


I dont have names. Simply saying I dont feel he was that bad

Like I said a rookie is worse then worst DE in league until proven otherwise. People acting like it is immediate upgrade simply are ignoring fact he has to adjust. He never played top competition and is extremely raw.


Did you feel the same about Calvin Johnson? Suh? Reiff?


Calvin andSuh once in generation type coming out so no not on those two. Reiff yes. Comparing Ansah to Calvin and Suh is complete fail
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FootballPhreak


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I felt that way about Suh too. Until he proved it, he was no more than a rook. Some didn't even think he was the best DT in the draft class.

Calvin, no. Actually thought he would be better his first couple years.

Detfan is correct though. People around here want to count on rooks entirely too much. Especially one that was touted as raw right off the top.
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BlackandBlue


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 2781
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
I felt that way about Suh too. Until he proved it, he was no more than a rook. Some didn't even think he was the best DT in the draft class.

Calvin, no. Actually thought he would be better his first couple years.

Detfan is correct though. People around here want to count on rooks entirely too much. Especially one that was touted as raw right off the top.


I'm not saying he'll be a world beater. I'm saying KVB had no business starting for an NFL team last year. That's how bad he was.
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BlackandBlue


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Posts: 2781
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
TheROARisBACK wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
I like most of the write ups. I think you undervalue Ansah and Jason Jones a little bit, and I think you're overrating the loss of Durant. Other than that I really like the analysis.


I agree.

Considering Ansah is penciled in as the starting RDE, I believe he will be an upgrade over KVB, and while Jones won't put up those 9 sacks left by Avril but I feel the defensive line as a whole plays better.

The one who I feel is lost in all of this is Ronnell Lewis. I really don't see where he fits.


Not sure how a rookie DE that is raw is immediate upgrade. That is nonsense. It takes players a while to adjust to the game. Long term he may be but short term it's easy downgrade


You really think Ansah will be worse this year than KVB was last year?


I think it's going to take him time to adjust to nfl talent and experience yes


KVB was arguably the worst starting DE in the league last year.


Even if this was true which I think there were worse a rookie is arguably worse from day 1 then an avg or below avg vet


Name some DEs you think were worse.

Frankly, 3.5 sacks from an end playing in the wide nine next to two of the better DTs in the league is abysmal. And he was worse against the run.


I dont have names. Simply saying I dont feel he was that bad

Like I said a rookie is worse then worst DE in league until proven otherwise. People acting like it is immediate upgrade simply are ignoring fact he has to adjust. He never played top competition and is extremely raw.


Did you feel the same about Calvin Johnson? Suh? Reiff?


Calvin andSuh once in generation type coming out so no not on those two. Reiff yes. Comparing Ansah to Calvin and Suh is complete fail


So no rookie should ever start using your logic, right? because there's no way he'd be better than the players already on the team.

Edit- Bonus question: Name a player from the '13 draft you think WOULD have been able to start on this team.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 57792
Location: Omaha
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
TheROARisBACK wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
I like most of the write ups. I think you undervalue Ansah and Jason Jones a little bit, and I think you're overrating the loss of Durant. Other than that I really like the analysis.


I agree.

Considering Ansah is penciled in as the starting RDE, I believe he will be an upgrade over KVB, and while Jones won't put up those 9 sacks left by Avril but I feel the defensive line as a whole plays better.

The one who I feel is lost in all of this is Ronnell Lewis. I really don't see where he fits.


Not sure how a rookie DE that is raw is immediate upgrade. That is nonsense. It takes players a while to adjust to the game. Long term he may be but short term it's easy downgrade


You really think Ansah will be worse this year than KVB was last year?


I think it's going to take him time to adjust to nfl talent and experience yes


KVB was arguably the worst starting DE in the league last year.


Even if this was true which I think there were worse a rookie is arguably worse from day 1 then an avg or below avg vet


Name some DEs you think were worse.

Frankly, 3.5 sacks from an end playing in the wide nine next to two of the better DTs in the league is abysmal. And he was worse against the run.


I dont have names. Simply saying I dont feel he was that bad

Like I said a rookie is worse then worst DE in league until proven otherwise. People acting like it is immediate upgrade simply are ignoring fact he has to adjust. He never played top competition and is extremely raw.


Did you feel the same about Calvin Johnson? Suh? Reiff?


Calvin andSuh once in generation type coming out so no not on those two. Reiff yes. Comparing Ansah to Calvin and Suh is complete fail


So no rookie should ever start using your logic, right? because there's no way he'd be better than the players already on the team.

Edit- Bonus question: Name a player from the '13 draft you think WOULD have been able to start on this team.



Never said no rookie. Once in generation types like Suh and Calvin no brainers.

In 2013 draft I wouldn't want any of them starting day one
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No.

No rookie should be starting from get. They earn it through camp and preseason.
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BlackandBlue


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:


Never said no rookie. Once in generation types like Suh and Calvin no brainers.

In 2013 draft I wouldn't want any of them starting day one


So all 32 teams in the NFL which be starting a rookie in some capacity are doing it wrong. That's good to know.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 57792
Location: Omaha
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:


Never said no rookie. Once in generation types like Suh and Calvin no brainers.

In 2013 draft I wouldn't want any of them starting day one


So all 32 teams in the NFL which be starting a rookie in some capacity are doing it wrong. That's good to know.



It has more to do with money then ability. They will star less quality because they don't have cap room. It's more necessity then desire.

No team wants to start rookies day one

You all can slob all over and man crush Ansah all you want but he is no clear upgrade period. He may end up but he was largest project in round 1.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
No.

No rookie should be starting from get. They earn it through camp and preseason.


Exactly! Teams are forced to because of money
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BlackandBlue


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:


Never said no rookie. Once in generation types like Suh and Calvin no brainers.

In 2013 draft I wouldn't want any of them starting day one


So all 32 teams in the NFL which be starting a rookie in some capacity are doing it wrong. That's good to know.



It has more to do with money then ability. They will star less quality because they don't have cap room. It's more necessity then desire.

No team wants to start rookies day one

You all can slob all over and man crush Ansah all you want but he is no clear upgrade period. He may end up but he was largest project in round 1.


Let's put this this argument to the test.

Say, hypothetically, we had somehow drafted Chandler Jones in the first round last year. With the gift of hindsight, knowing how KVB played last season, you'd STILL have had him sit behind KVB?

Your strawmen are ridiculous. I'm not expecting an All Pro year from our rookies. If Ansah is a bottom third DE next year, he'll still be better than KVB. He was a net liability in every facet of the game last year.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 57792
Location: Omaha
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:


Never said no rookie. Once in generation types like Suh and Calvin no brainers.

In 2013 draft I wouldn't want any of them starting day one


So all 32 teams in the NFL which be starting a rookie in some capacity are doing it wrong. That's good to know.



It has more to do with money then ability. They will star less quality because they don't have cap room. It's more necessity then desire.

No team wants to start rookies day one

You all can slob all over and man crush Ansah all you want but he is no clear upgrade period. He may end up but he was largest project in round 1.


Let's put this this argument to the test.

Say, hypothetically, we had somehow drafted Chandler Jones in the first round last year. With the gift of hindsight, knowing how KVB played last season, you'd STILL have had him sit behind KVB?

Your strawmen are ridiculous. I'm not expecting an All Pro year from our rookies. If Ansah is a bottom third DE next year, he'll still be better than KVB. He was a net liability in every facet of the game last year.


There is no test! I have said all rookies are not good day 1 starters unless once in generation type player.
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BlackandBlue


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:


There is no test! I have said all rookies are not good day 1 starters unless once in generation type player.


This makes absolutely no sense.

Matt Kalil was better than Backus
Luke Kuechly was better than Tulloch
Chandler Jones was better than Avril and KVB
Harrison Smith was better than the crap we had at safety
Doug Martin was better than Leshoure and Bell

But according to you, youwould have sat every single one of them because they happened to be rookies? That's Millenesque in its thinking.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:


There is no test! I have said all rookies are not good day 1 starters unless once in generation type player.


This makes absolutely no sense.

Matt Kalil was better than Backus
Luke Kuechly was better than Tulloch
Chandler Jones was better than Avril and KVB
Harrison Smith was better than the crap we had at safety
Doug Martin was better than Leshoure and Bell

But according to you, youwould have sat every single one of them because they happened to be rookies? That's Millenesque in its thinking.


Tulloch one of best lb in game inside. The rest good in schemes they were in but yes I'd sit all rookies behind a veteran until they learn NFL
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