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Re-Ranking the roster: #8
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Who's our 8th best player?
Chris Clemons
25%
 25%  [ 5 ]
Brandon Mebane
20%
 20%  [ 4 ]
Kam Chancellor
20%
 20%  [ 4 ]
Bobby Wagner
25%
 25%  [ 5 ]
KJ Wright
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Cliff Avril
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Antoine Winfield
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Michael Bennett
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 20

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clubmember


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
Posts: 1185
Location: Washington
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
I agree that Red was essentially useless down the stretch.

But I really think you're overstating how Mebane "created havoc" when he wasn't doubled. I'm willing to bet that if I looked back to the games where we were getting gashed Mebane was not a guy the opposition consistently doubled and yet he was still nearly nonexistent late in the year.


Thank you for pointing this out

Mebane isn't that good, he's pretty overrated here. We were so bad against the run down the stretch.....
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chpjns15


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clubmember wrote:
SoS wrote:
I agree that Red was essentially useless down the stretch.

But I really think you're overstating how Mebane "created havoc" when he wasn't doubled. I'm willing to bet that if I looked back to the games where we were getting gashed Mebane was not a guy the opposition consistently doubled and yet he was still nearly nonexistent late in the year.


Thank you for pointing this out

Mebane isn't that good, he's pretty overrated here. We were so bad against the run down the stretch.....


Us being so bad at defending the run was Red Bryants doing. Not Mebanes. If anything, Mebane is underrated here.
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clubmember


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chpjns15 wrote:
clubmember wrote:
SoS wrote:
I agree that Red was essentially useless down the stretch.

But I really think you're overstating how Mebane "created havoc" when he wasn't doubled. I'm willing to bet that if I looked back to the games where we were getting gashed Mebane was not a guy the opposition consistently doubled and yet he was still nearly nonexistent late in the year.


Thank you for pointing this out

Mebane isn't that good, he's pretty overrated here. We were so bad against the run down the stretch.....


Us being so bad at defending the run was Red Bryants doing. Not Mebanes. If anything, Mebane is underrated here.


Mebane gets crazy love around here. He's good, but he is not the 8th best player in our roster. Underrated to the general public, overrate to Seahawk fans.

Not too mention he doesn't offer much pass rush either
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RawkHawkJayHawk


Joined: 21 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mebane love compares to the craziness of what John Carlson received. Mebane is ok but am not overly enamored with him.

For a rookie working the middle, making D calls and being all over the field with 140 tackles and should get better, my vote is Wags. He is an undervalued and rated player. Wags @ 8.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RawkHawkJayHawk wrote:
The Mebane love compares to the craziness of what John Carlson received. Mebane is ok but am not overly enamored with him.

For a rookie working the middle, making D calls and being all over the field with 140 tackles and should get better, my vote is Wags. He is an undervalued and rated player. Wags @ 8.
John Carlson was never near as good as Mebane. I get what you're saying, but I don't see it.

Wagner has bigtime potential, but he's got some developing to do before I put him above Bane. He doesn't do a great job of attacking the LOS yet.
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Tooki


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
RawkHawkJayHawk wrote:
The Mebane love compares to the craziness of what John Carlson received. Mebane is ok but am not overly enamored with him.

For a rookie working the middle, making D calls and being all over the field with 140 tackles and should get better, my vote is Wags. He is an undervalued and rated player. Wags @ 8.
John Carlson was never near as good as Mebane. I get what you're saying, but I don't see it.

Wagner has bigtime potential, but he's got some developing to do before I put him above Bane. He doesn't do a great job of attacking the LOS yet.


Pretty much. Wagz has some flaws that are apparent if you watch him on film (especially attacking the LOS and coverage) but there is little doubt that he will fix those flaws up in time.
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RawkHawkJayHawk


Joined: 21 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we talking about past performance or how we rate hiw good they will be in 2013? #8 isnt that high for a rookie that handled everything expected from a veteran Mike. Wags to me is a stud in the making while Mebane does not do anything well and I consider him the most overrated on our awesome D.

As a 1 tech, he really doesn't hold the point of attack and looked garbage vs Atlanta and containing Turner. That is Mebane's main roll. He rarely penetrates into the backfield or pressures the QB which are more 3 tech responsibilities.

What is Mebane so skilled at that I'm missing? I wish JWill would take over the 1 and Hill the 3. Jwill looks to be going 3 at this point but he's never been a penetrator but a run stuffer = 1 tech.

I love the Hawks but don't see Mebane at #8. Someone educate me with some Mebane you tube on why he's rated so highly bcuz I'm in need of a good view.
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RawkHawkJayHawk


Joined: 21 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we talking about past performance or how we rate hiw good they will be in 2013? #8 isnt that high for a rookie that handled everything expected from a veteran Mike. Wags to me is a stud in the making while Mebane does not do anything well and I consider him the most overrated on our awesome D.

As a 1 tech, he really doesn't hold the point of attack and looked garbage vs Atlanta and containing Turner. That is Mebane's main roll. He rarely penetrates into the backfield or pressures the QB which are more 3 tech responsibilities.

What is Mebane so skilled at that I'm missing? I wish JWill would take over the 1 and Hill the 3. Jwill looks to be going 3 at this point but he's never been a penetrator but a run stuffer = 1 tech.

I love the Hawks but don't see Mebane at #8. Someone educate me with some Mebane you tube on why he's rated so highly bcuz I'm in need of a good view.
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SoS


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tooki wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
RawkHawkJayHawk wrote:
The Mebane love compares to the craziness of what John Carlson received. Mebane is ok but am not overly enamored with him.

For a rookie working the middle, making D calls and being all over the field with 140 tackles and should get better, my vote is Wags. He is an undervalued and rated player. Wags @ 8.
John Carlson was never near as good as Mebane. I get what you're saying, but I don't see it.

Wagner has bigtime potential, but he's got some developing to do before I put him above Bane. He doesn't do a great job of attacking the LOS yet.


Pretty much. Wagz has some flaws that are apparent if you watch him on film (especially attacking the LOS and coverage) but there is little doubt that he will fix those flaws up in time.


Wagner's flaws are a lot less evident than Mebane's if we're just going off last year.

I agree that Mebane is generally underrated, but overrated by hardcore Seattle fans.
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Tooki


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
Tooki wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
RawkHawkJayHawk wrote:
The Mebane love compares to the craziness of what John Carlson received. Mebane is ok but am not overly enamored with him.

For a rookie working the middle, making D calls and being all over the field with 140 tackles and should get better, my vote is Wags. He is an undervalued and rated player. Wags @ 8.
John Carlson was never near as good as Mebane. I get what you're saying, but I don't see it.

Wagner has bigtime potential, but he's got some developing to do before I put him above Bane. He doesn't do a great job of attacking the LOS yet.


Pretty much. Wagz has some flaws that are apparent if you watch him on film (especially attacking the LOS and coverage) but there is little doubt that he will fix those flaws up in time.


Wagner's flaws are a lot less evident than Mebane's if we're just going off last year.

I agree that Mebane is generally underrated, but overrated by hardcore Seattle fans.


It depends on how you look at it. Some of Wagner's mis-reads led to massive gains by the 9ers, for example. Wagner made more splash plays though.

I would probably take Wagner because he has a lot more upside at his position than Mebane (who is copping criticism that should be more directed at Red Bryant, who is more important to the Seahawks defensive scheme).
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SoS


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one is misdirecting blame due for Red Bryant onto Brandon Mebane. It just comes down to the fact that our defensive woes on the ground last year were not one man's fault. As much as it frustrated me to watch Red be rendered useless, Mebane is not absolved of fault for the way this unit got gashed.

I think some hardcore Seattle fans want to keep up the notion that Brandon Mebane is one of the league's best kept secrets, when in reality he played like an above average DT last season, which does not merit a top 10 spot on this roster.
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If I am a starting QB and my back up is Kellen Clemens..i would only have one question...."Turn up for what?"
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RawkHawkJayHawk wrote:
Are we talking about past performance or how we rate hiw good they will be in 2013? #8 isnt that high for a rookie that handled everything expected from a veteran Mike. Wags to me is a stud in the making while Mebane does not do anything well and I consider him the most overrated on our awesome D.

As a 1 tech, he really doesn't hold the point of attack and looked garbage vs Atlanta and containing Turner. That is Mebane's main roll. He rarely penetrates into the backfield or pressures the QB which are more 3 tech responsibilities.

What is Mebane so skilled at that I'm missing? I wish JWill would take over the 1 and Hill the 3. Jwill looks to be going 3 at this point but he's never been a penetrator but a run stuffer = 1 tech.

I love the Hawks but don't see Mebane at #8. Someone educate me with some Mebane you tube on why he's rated so highly bcuz I'm in need of a good view.
I think you're viewing the 1 tech and 3 tech in way too small a vacuum. You just described the traditional roles of the DT's in a 4-3. In Carroll's D, the 1 tech and 3 tech intermix quite a bit in terms of responsibilities. Mebane didn't create quite as much pressure this year, but for a guy who is a 1 tech he creates some of the best pressure in the league at that position.
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imani


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
No one is misdirecting blame due for Red Bryant onto Brandon Mebane. It just comes down to the fact that our defensive woes on the ground last year were not one man's fault. As much as it frustrated me to watch Red be rendered useless, Mebane is not absolved of fault for the way this unit got gashed.

I think some hardcore Seattle fans want to keep up the notion that Brandon Mebane is one of the league's best kept secrets, when in reality he played like an above average DT last season, which does not merit a top 10 spot on this roster.


I think people attribute Clemons being our ONLY consistent pass rush threat as him also being great, when in reality he's above average. He isn't great by any means, just very consistent.
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SoS


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I'll take an above average pass rusher over an above average run stuffer.
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imani


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
And I'll take an above average pass rusher over an above average run stuffer.


What makes him simply above average?
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