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My writeup for Lawrence Timmons in FF's Top 100 of 2012
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is a difference between being ready to play and being better than the veteran infront of you.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
I think there is a difference between being ready to play and being better than the veteran infront of you.


And?

That doesnt change the fact that they dont use him enough.

Keisel struggled in several games last year. So did Ziggy. In his time in, Heyward looked just as good if not better than both did all last year.

Obviously, we dont know if he would maintain that as a starter, but Keisel is old and incosnstent these days and Hood is just plain inconsistent and average.

My issue isnt just the fact that Heyward is on the bench...its the fact that they basically wasted a first round pick to draft a player they never use. If they planned on clinging onto Keisel so long, they never shouldve drafted a 5 tech in the first freaking round. Depth at the position can be found in the mid rounds.

I might be wrong, but Im pretty sure I saw that Al Woods played almost as much as Heyward (maybe someone can confirm/dispute that?). That is absurd because Woods is shockingly bad and Heyward has at least shown well in his opportunities.

Bottom line: Heyward needs to play more, especially when Hood and Keisel are sucking. I honestly do not care which spot he plays, I just want him on the line more to at least see what we have in him, as opposed to just wasting him.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I think there is a difference between being ready to play and being better than the veteran infront of you.


And?

That doesnt change the fact that they dont use him enough.

Keisel struggled in several games last year. So did Ziggy. In his time in, Heyward looked just as good if not better than both did all last year.

Obviously, we dont know if he would maintain that as a starter, but Keisel is old and incosnstent these days and Hood is just plain inconsistent and average.

My issue isnt just the fact that Heyward is on the bench...its the fact that they basically wasted a first round pick to draft a player they never use. If they planned on clinging onto Keisel so long, they never shouldve drafted a 5 tech in the first freaking round. Depth at the position can be found in the mid rounds.

I might be wrong, but Im pretty sure I saw that Al Woods played almost as much as Heyward (maybe someone can confirm/dispute that?). That is absurd because Woods is shockingly bad and Heyward has at least shown well in his opportunities.

Bottom line: Heyward needs to play more, especially when Hood and Keisel are sucking. I honestly do not care which spot he plays, I just want him on the line more to at least see what we have in him, as opposed to just wasting him.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1498395-pittsburgh-steelers-defensive-year-in-review

Quote:
... That's not to say that Hood, Keisel and Hampton played every defensive snap in 2012, however. Backup nose tackle Steve McLendon played 139 snaps to Hampton's 503 and spent the slight majority of his time in pass rushing situations, which netted him three sacks.

With 887 snaps, Keisel had the most playing time on the defensive line, at right end, though 2011 draft pick Cameron Heyward also saw time at the position, primarily in the first half of the season. In the second half, he spelled Hood most often, adding assistance in the pass rush, where he spent 151 of his 267 total snaps.

Heyward played only 107 run snaps in 2012, but he recorded a stop 9.3 percent of the time. Considering Keisel's age and how Hood has been relatively disappointing in his time in Pittsburgh and it looks as though Heyward may have a future as a starter as early as 2013.

Heyward, McLendon and Keisel graded out the best in the pass rush for the Steelers this season, but with only one of those men considered a starter, it's clearly an area the Steelers must examine this offseason. The Steelers notched just 37 sacks this season, and the responsibility falls equally to the defensive line and the linebackers.



http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/3246072-74/season-steelers-hampton#axzz2YQDF6fWb

What I gather from these breakdowns and from one I read earlier in the offseason on the breakdown of plays for defensive line players is that- YES- Heyward should be playing more, andI believe he will play more snaps in the 2013 season.

1. I don't see Keisel playing near 900 snaps again because of his age

2. Casey Hampton is gone add that to Keisel's age and I see more playing time for last years two most efficient DL: McLendon and Heyward

3. It seems Heyward started to come on and play more snaps in the second half of the season

I fully expect the Steelers starting DL to be:

RDE: Keisel
NT: McLendon
LDE: Hood

I expect the snap breakdown to be much more evenly distributed though in 2013 as opposed to how it was in Heyward's first two seasons. I'll predict the defensive line snaps as this:

Keisel: 550
McLendon: 650
Heyward: 700
Hood: 700
Woods: 100
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I think there is a difference between being ready to play and being better than the veteran infront of you.


And?

That doesnt change the fact that they dont use him enough.

Keisel struggled in several games last year. So did Ziggy. In his time in, Heyward looked just as good if not better than both did all last year.

Obviously, we dont know if he would maintain that as a starter, but Keisel is old and incosnstent these days and Hood is just plain inconsistent and average.

My issue isnt just the fact that Heyward is on the bench...its the fact that they basically wasted a first round pick to draft a player they never use. If they planned on clinging onto Keisel so long, they never shouldve drafted a 5 tech in the first freaking round. Depth at the position can be found in the mid rounds.

I might be wrong, but Im pretty sure I saw that Al Woods played almost as much as Heyward (maybe someone can confirm/dispute that?). That is absurd because Woods is shockingly bad and Heyward has at least shown well in his opportunities.

Bottom line: Heyward needs to play more, especially when Hood and Keisel are sucking. I honestly do not care which spot he plays, I just want him on the line more to at least see what we have in him, as opposed to just wasting him.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1498395-pittsburgh-steelers-defensive-year-in-review

Quote:
... That's not to say that Hood, Keisel and Hampton played every defensive snap in 2012, however. Backup nose tackle Steve McLendon played 139 snaps to Hampton's 503 and spent the slight majority of his time in pass rushing situations, which netted him three sacks.

With 887 snaps, Keisel had the most playing time on the defensive line, at right end, though 2011 draft pick Cameron Heyward also saw time at the position, primarily in the first half of the season. In the second half, he spelled Hood most often, adding assistance in the pass rush, where he spent 151 of his 267 total snaps.

Heyward played only 107 run snaps in 2012, but he recorded a stop 9.3 percent of the time. Considering Keisel's age and how Hood has been relatively disappointing in his time in Pittsburgh and it looks as though Heyward may have a future as a starter as early as 2013.

Heyward, McLendon and Keisel graded out the best in the pass rush for the Steelers this season, but with only one of those men considered a starter, it's clearly an area the Steelers must examine this offseason. The Steelers notched just 37 sacks this season, and the responsibility falls equally to the defensive line and the linebackers.



http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/3246072-74/season-steelers-hampton#axzz2YQDF6fWb

What I gather from these breakdowns and from one I read earlier in the offseason on the breakdown of plays for defensive line players is that- YES- Heyward should be playing more, andI believe he will play more snaps in the 2013 season.

1. I don't see Keisel playing near 900 snaps again because of his age

2. Casey Hampton is gone add that to Keisel's age and I see more playing time for last years two most efficient DL: McLendon and Heyward

3. It seems Heyward started to come on and play more snaps in the second half of the season

I fully expect the Steelers starting DL to be:

RDE: Keisel
NT: McLendon
LDE: Hood

I expect the snap breakdown to be much more evenly distributed though in 2013 as opposed to how it was in Heyward's first two seasons. I'll predict the defensive line snaps as this:

Keisel: 550
McLendon: 650
Heyward: 700
Hood: 700
Woods: 100


Good post...and I owuld be happy with that breakdown....however LeBeau clings to aging vets, so barring injury, I see Keisel still getting more snaps than Heyward.
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:

I might be wrong, but Im pretty sure I saw that Al Woods played almost as much as Heyward (maybe someone can confirm/dispute that?). That is absurd because Woods is shockingly bad and Heyward has at least shown well in his opportunities.


nah, not quite. Heyward played about 265 defensive snaps last season. McLendon played about 137. Woods wasn't in more than a few dozen snaps.

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Bottom line: Heyward needs to play more, especially when Hood and Keisel are sucking. I honestly do not care which spot he plays, I just want him on the line more to at least see what we have in him, as opposed to just wasting him.


vs. Baltimore, Heyward played as well as any of our defensive linemen have in any game since Aaron Smith left. Keisel had a few games which were as good or slightly better, but Heyward was NOTICEABLY better at LDE than Ziggy ever was
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:


I expect the snap breakdown to be much more evenly distributed though in 2013 as opposed to how it was in Heyward's first two seasons. I'll predict the defensive line snaps as this:

Keisel: 550
McLendon: 650
Heyward: 700
Hood: 700
Woods: 100


if injury doesn't cause this, I'll be shocked. If I had my druthers, Hood, McLendon, and Keisel could battle it out for RDE, Hood, McLendon, and the Islanders battle it out for NT, and Heyward is left alone at LDE to do what he showed so much promise doing
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:


nah, not quite. Heyward played about 265 defensive snaps last season. McLendon played about 137. Woods wasn't in more than a few dozen snaps.


Damn. I thought Woods played a good bit. Ehh...all I know he looks awful when I pay attention to what he is doing.

Its also funny how little McLendon played considering how high they seemed to be on him last preseason. Not saying he SHOULDVE played more....he sucks vs the run...but I just remember the coaches going on about him and then Casey comes back and...what happens?
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
kethnaab wrote:


nah, not quite. Heyward played about 265 defensive snaps last season. McLendon played about 137. Woods wasn't in more than a few dozen snaps.


Damn. I thought Woods played a good bit. Ehh...all I know he looks awful when I pay attention to what he is doing.

Its also funny how little McLendon played considering how high they seemed to be on him last preseason. Not saying he SHOULDVE played more....he sucks vs the run...but I just remember the coaches going on about him and then Casey comes back and...what happens?


Steve McLendon

I wouldn't say McLendon sucks against the run that's be false. I would say he's not as good as Hampton and there are very few that are that good. McLendon is more Jay Ratliff who isn't the most stout against the run in his own right.

I will say way McLendon lacks in stoutness against the run he more then makes up for it in pass rush.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, he sucks vs the run. You could say KIND OF sucks, but either way, he sucks.

And yes, he is a good pass rusher, but thats my point...he is a situational player.

And Jay Ratliff sucks vs the run as well. Extremely overrated player and always has been.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
No, he sucks vs the run. You could say KIND OF sucks, but either way, he sucks.

And yes, he is a good pass rusher, but thats my point...he is a situational player.

And Jay Ratliff sucks vs the run as well. Extremely overrated player and always has been.


The Hamptons of the NFL are a dying breed and being phased out like mauler OL. McLendon doesn't worry me when it comes to defending the run know more then Hoke did when he played.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
No, he sucks vs the run. You could say KIND OF sucks, but either way, he sucks.

And yes, he is a good pass rusher, but thats my point...he is a situational player.

And Jay Ratliff sucks vs the run as well. Extremely overrated player and always has been.


The Hamptons of the NFL are a dying breed and being phased out like mauler OL. McLendon doesn't worry me when it comes to defending the run know more then Hoke did when he played.


First off, while beefcake NTs are disappearing, quality run defenders on the line are still around and always will be. NTs are more athletic and dynamic, but that doesnt mean they arent stout vs the run. And lets not use overrated pass rushing NTs like Kyle Williams and Jay Ratliff as a basis for what the future of NTs look like (NOT SAYING YOU ARE DOING THAT, but some do). They are both terrible vs the run and its a big reason why they defenses they are on are always mediocre.

Secondly, as long as we are running LeBeau's 34, we need a Hampton type cog in the middle. Unless LeBeau makes drastic changes, McLendon as a starter is very unsettling. If he is getting blown of the line regulary on running plays, and teams are just running on us at will, his impact as a pass rusher will be limited anyway.

Third...Hoke was a much....MUCH......MUUUUUCH better player than McLendon ever has been and likely ever will be.

Hoke was a starting caliber backup.
McLendon is a backup caliber starter (as of now).

Finally, some of these teams that dont have great NTs have great DEs....JJ Watt, Haloti Ngata, Justin Smith....we have no one anywhere near those guys to make up for the lack of a quality NT.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
No, he sucks vs the run. You could say KIND OF sucks, but either way, he sucks.

And yes, he is a good pass rusher, but thats my point...he is a situational player.

And Jay Ratliff sucks vs the run as well. Extremely overrated player and always has been.


The Hamptons of the NFL are a dying breed and being phased out like mauler OL. McLendon doesn't worry me when it comes to defending the run know more then Hoke did when he played.


First off, while beefcake NTs are disappearing, quality run defenders on the line are still around and always will be. NTs are more athletic and dynamic, but that doesnt mean they arent stout vs the run. And lets not use overrated pass rushing NTs like Kyle Williams and Jay Ratliff as a basis for what the future of NTs look like (NOT SAYING YOU ARE DOING THAT, but some do). They are both terrible vs the run and its a big reason why they defenses they are on are always mediocre.

Secondly, as long as we are running LeBeau's 34, we need a Hampton type cog in the middle. Unless LeBeau makes drastic changes, McLendon as a starter is very unsettling. If he is getting blown of the line regulary on running plays, and teams are just running on us at will, his impact as a pass rusher will be limited anyway.

Third...Hoke was a much....MUCH......MUUUUUCH better player than McLendon ever has been and likely ever will be.

Hoke was a starting caliber backup.
McLendon is a backup caliber starter (as of now).

Finally, some of these teams that dont have great NTs have great DEs....JJ Watt, Haloti Ngata, Justin Smith....we have no one anywhere near those guys to make up for the lack of a quality NT.


Hoke got more opportunities because Hampton was injured. So Hoke naturally has a bigger sample size because he's played. Steelers FO/coaches/fans will get there first up close look at McLendon and I don't think he'll disappoint.

I understand your pessimism! LOL!
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McLendon is an example of a guy who is still truly developing. He's just turning 27 this season, Hoke was 28 when he started in 2004. I do think he's a bit of a weird fit as a leBeau NT and would be better off as a penetrating DL, but we've been down that road before and as long as LeBeau is in charge, it isn't happening. Saying that Hoke was a much better play than McLendon "likely ever will be" is premature. He's played less than 400 snaps in his career, a measure of patience is in order. Not saying he *will* develop, but he deserves a chance.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
McLendon is an example of a guy who is still truly developing. He's just turning 27 this season, Hoke was 28 when he started in 2004. I do think he's a bit of a weird fit as a leBeau NT and would be better off as a penetrating DL, but we've been down that road before and as long as LeBeau is in charge, it isn't happening. Saying that Hoke was a much better play than McLendon "likely ever will be" is premature. He's played less than 400 snaps in his career, a measure of patience is in order. Not saying he *will* develop, but he deserves a chance.


I did say "likely". Confused

I respect if people still have hope for McLendon, and personally, its not like I have given up on him....I personally just dont see him as more than a situational player. Alot of people like to look at what they think players COULD BE as opposed to what they currently are. I completely respect that and its not wrong, but the only way I get optimistic about what a player could be is if I have seen enough to warrant getting excited about future potential.

Cam Heyward, Cortez Allen, Manny Sanders...even Jon Dwyer (to an extent) are examples of players that have shown me enough to get excited about how could they could be (Dwyer has no work ethic so Im not really excited about him, even if the talent is there)

Guys like Worlids, McLendon and Marcus Gilbert are guys that I think can contribute in limited roles or as backups, but I havent seen enough of any of them to give me a warm and fuzzy about them as starters. Worlids and McLendon are extremely one dimensional role players (at this point anyway) and Gilbert is just slow and uncoordinated with terrible feet.

I respect if some people like the guys Im not high on, and I fully admit (and hope) they could prove me wrong, but I cant be optimistic about a players future unless they give me something to be optimistic about....the most recent example being Mike Adams, who really gave Steeler fans something to look forward to...at least in terms of his run blocking.
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Guys like Worlids, McLendon and Marcus Gilbert are guys that I think can contribute in limited roles or as backups, but I havent seen enough of any of them to give me a warm and fuzzy about them as starters. Worlids and McLendon are extremely one dimensional role players (at this point anyway) and Gilbert is just slow and uncoordinated with terrible feet.


well, the only thing that's warm and fuzzy about me is my a$$, but that doesn't count.

McLendon, I'm hoping for. He definitely is, like Ziggy, a penetrating DT more than a squat-and-hold NT.

and I disagree about Worilds being 1-dimensional. He is, as of this point in time, no-dimensional.
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