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Minicamp observations, by Derek Stephens
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Minicamp observations, by Derek Stephens Reply with quote

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2013-nfl-offseason/2013/6/12/4423370/seahawks-mini-camp-notes-marshawn-lynch-russell-wilson-percy-harvin

Quote:
As a guy who spends most of his time watching tape, and relies heavily on the rewind button on the DVR, I went in with my "first impressions" antenna up more than anything, and tried to make my way around to each position group for at least a few minutes. Here are some notes that I jotted down.

Bear in mind, there were no pads. Not a lot of contact. Shorts, jerseys and helmets. Oh, and a lot of neon green shoes.



You know who I came away most impressed with after reading this???? The one, the only, MICHAEL BOWIE.

Quote:
- Michael Bowie (also a 7th round selection out of Northeast Oklahoma State) is the real deal.


Gotta click on the link to read the rest of the Bowie analysis Wink lol

Enjoy!
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Tooki


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard some good things about Bowie from other sources as well. Lets see how he does with pads on.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tooki wrote:
I heard some good things about Bowie from other sources as well. Lets see how he does with pads on.


Still, has me excited Smile Just imagine if we were able to get another late round steal? Very Happy

It's a good starting point.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, I was really excited about Bowie after reading about him initially in April. I would be thrilled to hear that he takes the RT spot from Breno somehow.

I completely forgot we picked up Alvin Bailey. I really, REALLY hope he finds a way to take the RG spot. Sweezy is a joke IMO and Moffitt is generally overrated on this board. Neither players are starters in this league. Bailey was a monster at Arkansas and I think he fits our PZBS a lot better than either of those players. Really excited for him.

Seymour sounds little more than a utility depth guy. Doubt he ever starts consistently. Though he does put some serious question under Lemuel Jeanpierre's roster spot.

I really like what we've done with the OLine depth, but I'm still not content with the starting 5.

Interesting to hear that Turbin has developed. I know I was on these boards a few days ago talking about how Turbin didn't show the ability to be a #1 back for this team, but maybe he turns a corner this season. I still think at the end of the day Christine Michael has the edge over him just because he's a great pure rusher, but my comments about Turbin may have been over the line. In actuality, it may appear that we might have two #1 type RBs after Lynch leaves.

Also good to hear things about Korey Toomer. Hopefully he can transition that to padded practices.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bowie intrigues me because all reports said that he would have been a starter at Ok. State. Hopefully he can usurp Breno, he looks like he could be the most physically gifted O-Lineman.

I think that Robert Turbin might have solidified himself as the 3rd down back. Sherman Smith also said that Turbin has improved a lot as well and is running with power, unlike last year. I think that Michael becomes the #1 back just because he is a more natural runner and Turbin's skillset better suits the needs of a 3rd down back.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:


I completely forgot we picked up Alvin Bailey. I really, REALLY hope he finds a way to take the RG spot. Sweezy is a joke IMO and Moffitt is generally overrated on this board. Neither players are starters in this league. Bailey was a monster at Arkansas and I think he fits our PZBS a lot better than either of those players. Really excited for him.


Moffitt sucks IMO, but I think you're really underrating Sweezy. You can't write a player off after his rookie season, especially a convert from defense. If we started Alvin Bailey, that would essentially be Sweezy's rookie season all over again..........

And I think Sweezy is the most athletic lineman we have. He is the perfect Tom Cable lineman physically, why do you think Cable asked him to convert to offense?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clubmember wrote:
SoS wrote:


I completely forgot we picked up Alvin Bailey. I really, REALLY hope he finds a way to take the RG spot. Sweezy is a joke IMO and Moffitt is generally overrated on this board. Neither players are starters in this league. Bailey was a monster at Arkansas and I think he fits our PZBS a lot better than either of those players. Really excited for him.


Moffitt sucks IMO, but I think you're really underrating Sweezy. You can't write a player off after his rookie season, especially a convert from defense. If we started Alvin Bailey, that would essentially be Sweezy's rookie season all over again..........

And I think Sweezy is the most athletic lineman we have. He is the perfect Tom Cable lineman physically, why do you think Cable asked him to convert to offense?


I have never watched Bailey play but he has to be a lot more polished than Sweezy coming out of college Laughing. The competition at RG looks good though.

Sweezy probably is the most athletic lineman but not nearly the strongest. That is fine in the PZBS though.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tooki wrote:
clubmember wrote:
SoS wrote:


I completely forgot we picked up Alvin Bailey. I really, REALLY hope he finds a way to take the RG spot. Sweezy is a joke IMO and Moffitt is generally overrated on this board. Neither players are starters in this league. Bailey was a monster at Arkansas and I think he fits our PZBS a lot better than either of those players. Really excited for him.


Moffitt sucks IMO, but I think you're really underrating Sweezy. You can't write a player off after his rookie season, especially a convert from defense. If we started Alvin Bailey, that would essentially be Sweezy's rookie season all over again..........

And I think Sweezy is the most athletic lineman we have. He is the perfect Tom Cable lineman physically, why do you think Cable asked him to convert to offense?


I have never watched Bailey play but he has to be a lot more polished than Sweezy coming out of college Laughing. The competition at RG looks good though.

Sweezy probably is the most athletic lineman but not nearly the strongest. That is fine in the PZBS though.


He's probably bulked up a bit since being drafted, and gotten stronger. 4.75 speed (40 yard dash) is great, but on the O-line, especially at guard, you should probably exchange some of that speed for more power.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think anyone else more adamantly disagreed with starting Sweezy last year than I did. I thought it was idiotic, premature, and forced due to a lack of foresight. However, there's no way you can make any sort of accurate assessment regarding what Sweezy can be in the league at this point. He shouldn't even play this year.

Moffitt on the other hand is garbage. At least he finally lifted weights this offseason.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clubmember wrote:
SoS wrote:


I completely forgot we picked up Alvin Bailey. I really, REALLY hope he finds a way to take the RG spot. Sweezy is a joke IMO and Moffitt is generally overrated on this board. Neither players are starters in this league. Bailey was a monster at Arkansas and I think he fits our PZBS a lot better than either of those players. Really excited for him.


Moffitt sucks IMO, but I think you're really underrating Sweezy. You can't write a player off after his rookie season, especially a convert from defense. If we started Alvin Bailey, that would essentially be Sweezy's rookie season all over again..........

And I think Sweezy is the most athletic lineman we have. He is the perfect Tom Cable lineman physically, why do you think Cable asked him to convert to offense?


Agreed, Moffitt is a backup in this league.

And I don't think I'm underrating Sweezy one bit. I'm evaluating him based off of what I saw last year, and that was some abysmal interior line play. I'd rather have Moffitt out there than what I saw from Sweezy last year.

I fully realize that he's a defensive convert, a project, and a player that never should have seen the field year 1. But he did, so that's what I'm going to base my evaluation off of. I welcome him to develop and prove me wrong, but as of this second, I'm not the least bit comfortable having him as our starting guard going into the season.

And Bailey isn't anything like Sweezy. Bailey has a ton of experience playing both guard and tackle and has played both positions at a high level in college. He is more physical than Sweezy has ever shown and he's much further along as a technician. And I personally think Cable seriously overrates athleticism when it comes to his OLines, which is why he's had a past for not finding the right players for his system (distinct 1st round tackle he chose that is slipping my mind). Screw these converts that have potential, this is the NFL and on a team that's ready to win now, we don't have the time to develop these guys. I want someone that KNOWS the position and can step in right now and perform at even a mediocre level, because we weren't even getting that from our guard play last year.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
And I don't think I'm underrating Sweezy one bit. I'm evaluating him based off of what I saw last year, and that was some abysmal interior line play. I'd rather have Moffitt out there than what I saw from Sweezy last year.

I fully realize that he's a defensive convert, a project, and a player that never should have seen the field year 1. But he did, so that's what I'm going to base my evaluation off of. I welcome him to develop and prove me wrong, but as of this second, I'm not the least bit comfortable having him as our starting guard going into the season.
Fully agreed there. My problem was you made an all-encompassing statement asserting that Sweezy would never be a starting caliber guard. It would be ridiculous to make any sort of claims unless he was physically capable of doing it with how raw he is.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
clubmember wrote:
SoS wrote:


I completely forgot we picked up Alvin Bailey. I really, REALLY hope he finds a way to take the RG spot. Sweezy is a joke IMO and Moffitt is generally overrated on this board. Neither players are starters in this league. Bailey was a monster at Arkansas and I think he fits our PZBS a lot better than either of those players. Really excited for him.


Moffitt sucks IMO, but I think you're really underrating Sweezy. You can't write a player off after his rookie season, especially a convert from defense. If we started Alvin Bailey, that would essentially be Sweezy's rookie season all over again..........

And I think Sweezy is the most athletic lineman we have. He is the perfect Tom Cable lineman physically, why do you think Cable asked him to convert to offense?


Agreed, Moffitt is a backup in this league.

And I don't think I'm underrating Sweezy one bit. I'm evaluating him based off of what I saw last year, and that was some abysmal interior line play. I'd rather have Moffitt out there than what I saw from Sweezy last year.

I fully realize that he's a defensive convert, a project, and a player that never should have seen the field year 1. But he did, so that's what I'm going to base my evaluation off of. I welcome him to develop and prove me wrong, but as of this second, I'm not the least bit comfortable having him as our starting guard going into the season.

And Bailey isn't anything like Sweezy. Bailey has a ton of experience playing both guard and tackle and has played both positions at a high level in college. He is more physical than Sweezy has ever shown and he's much further along as a technician. And I personally think Cable seriously overrates athleticism when it comes to his OLines, which is why he's had a past for not finding the right players for his system (distinct 1st round tackle he chose that is slipping my mind). Screw these converts that have potential, this is the NFL and on a team that's ready to win now, we don't have the time to develop these guys. I want someone that KNOWS the position and can step in right now and perform at even a mediocre level, because we weren't even getting that from our guard play last year.


Of course we have the time to develop these guys. If you go fully win now, you turn into the Jets. Guys like Sweezy keep the talent recycling. You need to hit on those high upside, project guys in the later rounds to stay successful long term.

Still, I think you're overrating Bailey. Not many 7th round players are ready to start in their rookie season. Especially on the O-line, where cohesion is key. I really just want to see how good our line would look if we actually had the same unit season in and season out.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
Fully agreed there. My problem was you made an all-encompassing statement asserting that Sweezy would never be a starting caliber guard. It would be ridiculous to make any sort of claims unless he was physically capable of doing it with how raw he is.


Didn't mean to make it sound like that. The statement you bolded is pretty much my stance.

clubmember wrote:
Of course we have the time to develop these guys. If you go fully win now, you turn into the Jets. Guys like Sweezy keep the talent recycling. You need to hit on those high upside, project guys in the later rounds to stay successful long term.

Still, I think you're overrating Bailey. Not many 7th round players are ready to start in their rookie season. Especially on the O-line, where cohesion is key. I really just want to see how good our line would look if we actually had the same unit season in and season out.


I'm not saying go "fully win" now. I'm saying we have a chance to win it all right now, why not put the best players out on the field to help us get there? Have Sweezy develop in camp/practice, but I don't see why a great team should be held back by the liability of the guard position.

It's not like you have to choose between winning now and developing talent. We can start our best players and develop the talent behind them. If we had Maxwell and Simon as our starting CBs and that's the position that was holding us back from being better, would you be content with us just watching those players grow or would you want the franchise to find better players at that position so we could win it all? I certainly wouldn't want the former option.

And you really don't need to hit on late round picks to sustain success. Hitting on late round picks is how you START success, but now that we have the talent in place it's going to be John's job to maintain the salary cap and be efficient in the earlier rounds. You start to lose momentum when you fail in the earlier rounds. Later round finds are merely luxuries to be honest.

I get your point about OLine cohesion, but I'm not going to sacrifice talent for perceived chemistry.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
Fully agreed there. My problem was you made an all-encompassing statement asserting that Sweezy would never be a starting caliber guard. It would be ridiculous to make any sort of claims unless he was physically capable of doing it with how raw he is.


Didn't mean to make it sound like that. The statement you bolded is pretty much my stance.

clubmember wrote:
Of course we have the time to develop these guys. If you go fully win now, you turn into the Jets. Guys like Sweezy keep the talent recycling. You need to hit on those high upside, project guys in the later rounds to stay successful long term.

Still, I think you're overrating Bailey. Not many 7th round players are ready to start in their rookie season. Especially on the O-line, where cohesion is key. I really just want to see how good our line would look if we actually had the same unit season in and season out.


I'm not saying go "fully win" now. I'm saying we have a chance to win it all right now, why not put the best players out on the field to help us get there? Have Sweezy develop in camp/practice, but I don't see why a great team should be held back by the liability of the guard position.

It's not like you have to choose between winning now and developing talent. We can start our best players and develop the talent behind them. If we had Maxwell and Simon as our starting CBs and that's the position that was holding us back from being better, would you be content with us just watching those players grow or would you want the franchise to find better players at that position so we could win it all? I certainly wouldn't want the former option.

And you really don't need to hit on late round picks to sustain success. Hitting on late round picks is how you START success, but now that we have the talent in place it's going to be John's job to maintain the salary cap and be efficient in the earlier rounds. You start to lose momentum when you fail in the earlier rounds. Later round finds are merely luxuries to be honest.

I get your point about OLine cohesion, but I'm not going to sacrifice talent for perceived chemistry.


Late round picks are pretty essential to continuing success, because our salary cap should get tied up in a few players (Wilson, Sherman, Okung, Earl, ect) and we'll have to let some decent players go, and a 1st and 2nd won't be enough to replace them. Late round picks, on the other hand, would provide a cheap solution.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the rookie salary cap even 1st and 2nd round picks are cheap these days, I really don't see your distinction. Late round picks are luxuries and cannot be counted on. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and sometimes even 4th round picks are expected to be starters. If you consistently hit on those picks, wisely spend money on your own players, and wisely spend money on the open market, you'll be successful for a long, long time. That is much easier said than done, however.
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