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sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 8179
Location: MD
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:49 am    Post subject: Running Back Usage Reply with quote

How would you guys like to see our RB's used this season? With all the love Pierce has been getting, I feel that Ray Rice has been a little bit underrated by our own fanbase (don't get me wrong, I love me some BP). If anything, with a reliable #2 back I think he can become more efficient/explosive as we can limit his carries. Additionally, I think someone mentioned in another thread that he was working to shed some of the extra weight he was carrying last season. Ideally I would like to see him catch more/better balls in the passing game than he did last year. Meanwhile, I would like to see more of his carries shifted to BP. At the end of the season, I'd want them to end up somewhere around:

RR - 220 car/1100 yds/9 TD 75 rec/640 yds/3 TD
BP - 200 car/ 900 yds/5 TD 15 rec/100 yds/1 TD

I don't think these numbers are unrealistic at all and could allow us to field a very strong offense even if we don't get another threat at WR (or have one of our JAGs step up big time).

EDIT - For those of you following at home, that's about 14 carries a game for Ray Rice and 13 a game for BP (both rounded up). I don't know that this exact split needs to happen every game, rather a hot hand/match up mentality with the other guy being mixed in to keep the defense off balance.

EDIT #2 - Just realized this interesting little tidbit... That exact level of production would get Ray Rice to 9,973 career yards from scrimmage, putting him at #90 all time, just behind Santana Moss and just behind Drew Hill (obviously there are other guys that may break into the top 90 this season). I wouldn't be opposed to getting him a few extra carries to get him over the 10,000 plateau this season. Cool
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone talks about how bad a 400 touch season is for a RB, but if you count playoffs, Ray Rice has averaged more than that since he became the starter. If we plan to keep extending our seasons in to the playoffs, we need to give Rice a lot more rest. So, I'd be OK with anywhere up to a 50/50 split between Rice and Pierce. It's not a given that Pierce will hold up to that many carries though, because he got nicked up more than a few times the way he ran last year.
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ravens_rool28


Joined: 05 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
Everyone talks about how bad a 400 touch season is for a RB, but if you count playoffs, Ray Rice has averaged more than that since he became the starter. If we plan to keep extending our seasons in to the playoffs, we need to give Rice a lot more rest. So, I'd be OK with anywhere up to a 50/50 split between Rice and Pierce. It's not a given that Pierce will hold up to that many carries though, because he got nicked up more than a few times the way he ran last year.
Coming in as a rookie, looking to prove himself, he may have been a bit more wreckless than he should have been (see: hurdling everyone). I think with a year under his belt, Oil Slick should be a bit more 'reserved' when it comes to those type of plays. Not that he won't give 100%, but he should play smarter, if that makes sense.
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diamondbull424


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Joined: 02 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
Everyone talks about how bad a 400 touch season is for a RB, but if you count playoffs, Ray Rice has averaged more than that since he became the starter. If we plan to keep extending our seasons in to the playoffs, we need to give Rice a lot more rest. So, I'd be OK with anywhere up to a 50/50 split between Rice and Pierce. It's not a given that Pierce will hold up to that many carries though, because he got nicked up more than a few times the way he ran last year.

I'm not arguing for or against this concept, but I'd just like to point out that Rice also dealt with a good amount of injuries during his rookie season as he was backup to McGahee. I think there might be something in a RBs preparation- via nutrition and exercises that makes a veteran like Rice more durable than what Pierce was as a rookie... granted, Pierce also had some durability issues in college as well, but in a backup role and with a more advanced routine, Pierce will be in a better spot this year in dealing with his body.

In terms of the OP, I agree with the usage. Though honestly, I think I would rather see Pierce get more carries than Rice. Rice is almost a guaranteed 3rd down insert, he's going to receive more touches as a receiver. I'd like to see Pierce have slightly more carries than Rice during the regular season and keep Rice fresh. Though I know the politics of being a starter and with what Rice is making, it'll be incredibly difficult to justify not having him receiver the higher share of the carries.
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McNabbMcFadden


Joined: 25 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/06/25/sources-say-professional-football-player-robbed-at-gunpoint-in-philadelphia/
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McNabbMcFadden wrote:
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/06/25/sources-say-professional-football-player-robbed-at-gunpoint-in-philadelphia/

I don't think this incident should effect his status in our running back rotation any.

It's certainly a sad incident that things like this happened. I believe there was a documentary on Netflix outlining this particular thing.

But as long as Pierce doesn't find himself retaliating to these types of risks, then he should be fine career wise. He did the right thing, played it safe, and didn't seek to escalate the situation to put his football career (or life) in danger. Hopefully he didn't lose too much money and hopefully they find the perp.
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McNabbMcFadden


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just thought this would be the most relevant thread to put it in. I didn't want to start a new thread for it.
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sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McNabbMcFadden wrote:
I just thought this would be the most relevant thread to put it in. I didn't want to start a new thread for it.


Yea, heard this on the radio. Sucks, but it doesnt sound like he's getting himself in trouble (i.e. associating himself with bad people), just an unfortunate occurrence.
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Madd Monkey


Joined: 06 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully someone can answer this since I can't find video of the Raven's final SB drive.

1st down - Rice for 2 yard.
2nd down - Rice goes out, Pierce comes in for no gain.
3rd down - Leach runs for 1 yard.

Did Rice come back onto the field for 3rd down or was Pierce still out there?

Since Baltimore won, this wasn't talked about (Rice coming out on 2nd down and possibly on 3rd down) unless I missed it.

I was just curious about this since I don't recall seeing him come back in.
Thanks
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ That's not that unusual for what we did last year. Late in the season, we went like 2 drives featuring Rice and then one featuring Pierce (with subs as needed to catch breath). We didn't always put Rice in on 3rd down. Pierce had a few key plays on third down in the playoffs.
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Madd Monkey


Joined: 06 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
^ That's not that unusual for what we did last year. Late in the season, we went like 2 drives featuring Rice and then one featuring Pierce (with subs as needed to catch breath). We didn't always put Rice in on 3rd down. Pierce had a few key plays on third down in the playoffs.


I just think it's interesting because of the timing.
First off, I'm very high on both so this is no knock on either (don't want anyone to take it the wrong way).

I'm just wondering if this is a sign from the coaching staff/Front office on the use of these guys because this reminds me a bit of the Priest Holmes/Larry Johnson situation in 04 & 05 until Priest went out with the injury.

The timing was that it was the Raven's Final drive of the Super Bowl, game on the line. Run for a first down, game over, title won. This is the time expect your Franchise Players to step up and win the game for you; not for them to be on the bench and a rookie to come in since there is no tomorrow.

It's hard to see Dallas benching Emmitt for a rookie in that situation or Washington pulling Riggins...Walter Payton, LT, Bettis, Faulk etc. all sitting on the bench for a rookie and yes I put Rice in their category.

Ozzie is always a step ahead of everyone else and is there something he sees? Pierce is young buck and maybe the mileage on Rice is taking it's toll and that's why the staff didn't have any issues putting the rookie in there. Schiano used and abused Rice while at Rutgers.

Could it be a 50/50 split in 2013 and a 70/30 split in 2014 with Pierce getting the bulk of the work? Come playoff time in 2013, can we expect to see Pierce with the bulk?

Maybe I'm too high on Pierce but the fact that Ozzie is smarter than the rest of us and the fact that they pulled Rice during Money time is the reason why I'm wondering about this.

Of course, if Rice came back in on 3rd down and only missed 1 play, then it's moot in my opinion but if he was out on 2nd & 3rd down....
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the fact that it was a Leach run on third down I don't think they were thinking too much about who was at RB. If Flacco audibled to a passing play then either Rice or pierce would make sense. Obviously Rice is the pass-catching threat but he's not very useful in pass-protection while Pierce is at least adequate. You're reading WAY too much into this.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it has any higher meaning other than that was the personnel package they had at that time. If the team trusts both guys, then they trust both guys. I get your point, but they don't really have time to dither regarding personnel, so there really may be nothing to it other than Rice was out to get a quick blow and they went with it.
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Madd Monkey


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
I don't think it has any higher meaning other than that was the personnel package they had at that time. If the team trusts both guys, then they trust both guys. I get your point, but they don't really have time to dither regarding personnel, so there really may be nothing to it other than Rice was out to get a quick blow and they went with it.


Maybe I am reading too much into but when the season/title is on the line, usually you want your studs/franchise people out there.

The quick breather doesn't make too much sense since Baltimore just got the ball back after that long SF drive that failed on 4th so Rice should have been fresh. Plus it was only going to be a 3 play drive (kneel down if they got the first). 3 plays, get your best guy in there.

Normally you go into a game and/or situation knowing who "your guy" is and for a rookie to be thought of as interchangeable with Rice does make me think that it could be a 50/50 this year and Pierce could be on the verge of overtaking him this year....especially since the RB position is the one spot where players slow down the quickest and a young stud could easily overtake a vet. (no slight to Rice is meant just that the team may see more than us)

Again, going into those games/situation, you know that Emmitt, Faulk, Riggins, Payton etc. are "the guys" and they would always be out there in that exact situation.

(I don't mind the handoff to the fullback hoping that SF would key on the tailback and that Leach could have slipped through for the 8 yards...his only carry for the game)
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh that drive... It was more a stall than a real attempt at a drive. The number one priority there was to not fumble the ball. Rice had fumble issues in the playoffs, including earlier that game. I think fumbles are largely mental which is why they often come in bunches. It made sense to go with the guy who hadn't dropped the ball all year.
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