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UPDATE: Packers Cut Bishop, Signs with Vikings
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 2610
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pugger wrote:
valpoPackers wrote:
There's two things the Vikings are good at: 1. Not winning a Super Bowl and 2. Signing the Packers sloppy seconds.

Bishop was painfully slow, and coming off an injury he's probably even slower. I know the Packers don't have many options on the inside, but I have a hard time feeling like the Vikings got a major steal with Bishop.


This is my concern about Bishop. We aren't overflowing with guys at that position and yet we let him walk. One would think that would set off alarm bells. I guess we shall see.


Time will tell, but we would have been paying him several million more this year with no out option vs Vikings probably can cut him with minimal cost to the cap this year if he is not able to perform.
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Vikefan79


Joined: 05 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
heydudemanG wrote:
Atari-XXX wrote:
Can't blame the Vikes for making this move. If he stays healthy then that one-year deal will look like a bargain. They didn't overpay the way they did for Jennings.


We signed Jennings to over 3 and a half million dollars less a year then what Percy Harvin got signed for. I can't see how we over paid at all.


Bit of an age difference between the 2. Harvin's best years are ahead of him, Jennings' best are in the rearview mirror.


For the next couple years at least if Jennings is healthy he's a better receiver than Harvin.
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 15132
Location: Gibsonia, Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pugger wrote:
heydudemanG wrote:
Atari-XXX wrote:
Can't blame the Vikes for making this move. If he stays healthy then that one-year deal will look like a bargain. They didn't overpay the way they did for Jennings.


We signed Jennings to over 3 and a half million dollars less a year then what Percy Harvin got signed for. I can't see how we over paid at all.


Jennings can be a good WR he if stays healthy in 2013 but he ain't Harvin.


Your right. Harvin is a horrible WR. Laughing

He can run maybe 5 routes. The dude is a RB who's best used on the little bubble pass.

Greg Jennings can actually play WR. I really don't think we overpaid for him much, if at all.

and I like the Bishop signing. Low risk, high reward. If he comes back fully healthy (meaning he's not slower now than he used to be), then Bishop should be a solid starter for us.

and besides, by next offseason he'll be signing a huge contract from the Seahawks. They just love our castoffs. Wink
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Pugger


Joined: 01 May 2010
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Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vikefan79 wrote:
squire12 wrote:
heydudemanG wrote:
Atari-XXX wrote:
Can't blame the Vikes for making this move. If he stays healthy then that one-year deal will look like a bargain. They didn't overpay the way they did for Jennings.


We signed Jennings to over 3 and a half million dollars less a year then what Percy Harvin got signed for. I can't see how we over paid at all.


Bit of an age difference between the 2. Harvin's best years are ahead of him, Jennings' best are in the rearview mirror.


For the next couple years at least if Jennings is healthy he's a better receiver than Harvin.


Really? Greg is better than Harvin. When Greg was in his prime, maybe then. However, Jennings has had problems staying healthy the past 2 seasons and he only played in 8 games last year. We don't have ILBers coming out of our ears yet we let Bishop walk. Clearly management in GB were not comfortable with his progress and that hammy.
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Pugger


Joined: 01 May 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
Pugger wrote:
heydudemanG wrote:
Atari-XXX wrote:
Can't blame the Vikes for making this move. If he stays healthy then that one-year deal will look like a bargain. They didn't overpay the way they did for Jennings.


We signed Jennings to over 3 and a half million dollars less a year then what Percy Harvin got signed for. I can't see how we over paid at all.


Jennings can be a good WR he if stays healthy in 2013 but he ain't Harvin.


Your right. Harvin is a horrible WR. Laughing

He can run maybe 5 routes. The dude is a RB who's best used on the little bubble pass.

Greg Jennings can actually play WR. I really don't think we overpaid for him much, if at all.

and I like the Bishop signing. Low risk, high reward. If he comes back fully healthy (meaning he's not slower now than he used to be), then Bishop should be a solid starter for us.

and besides, by next offseason he'll be signing a huge contract from the Seahawks. They just love our castoffs. Wink


At one time Greg was better than Harvin but probably not today.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^Id take Jennings as a pure WR, with less upside. Harvin is a better weapon with more potential. However, Harvin is mostly potential as a WR. He has yet to show he can be an effective perimeter receiver. that is a major issue if youre running a lot of 2 WR sets. You've got to be able to get open on the outside consistently, and this is where Harvin has struggled and why Jennings was paid as he was.

Jennings is overpaid in the sense that his skills are diminishing and he likely has limited long-term production. However, Jennings really isnt overpaid once you consider the supposed offer the Packers made and the natural inflation of contracts that free agency provides. I see Jennings simply as an expensive stop gap starting WR, which really MN urgently needed to find considering Christian Ponder is at a crucial point in his career. Relying on rookie receivers or middle tier free agent scrubs probably would be a disaster for Ponder.

Bishop is a cheap stop gap player, and I cant imagine MN would avoid the need in 2014. Though I am interested in seeing how Michael Mauti and Gerald Hodges look this preseason and in camp.
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PossibleCabbage


Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Posts: 3307
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
Pugger wrote:
valpoPackers wrote:
There's two things the Vikings are good at: 1. Not winning a Super Bowl and 2. Signing the Packers sloppy seconds.

Bishop was painfully slow, and coming off an injury he's probably even slower. I know the Packers don't have many options on the inside, but I have a hard time feeling like the Vikings got a major steal with Bishop.


This is my concern about Bishop. We aren't overflowing with guys at that position and yet we let him walk. One would think that would set off alarm bells. I guess we shall see.


Time will tell, but we would have been paying him several million more this year with no out option vs Vikings probably can cut him with minimal cost to the cap this year if he is not able to perform.


I really think the real issue with Bishop on the Packers is that he wasn't expected to play much. Hawk+Bishop involves having two people on the field who are slowish and don't cover well so you want to replace one of them with Jones, and Bishop+Jones is less physical than Hawk+Jones.

Bishop can do some things very well (he's good moving forward and can make some splash plays) but I honestly don't think he would have started over either Jones or Hawk. I think honestly if you want a "ILB who blitzes well" on the Packer roster, you should look at Manning, who was an excellent blitzer in college.

He's only worth backup money to the Packers, but should be worth marginal starter money to the Vikings, so what they got him for is reasonable.


Last edited by PossibleCabbage on Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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ChaRisMa


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bishop says playing Rodgers part of motivation to sign with Vikes. OMG Traitor he's dead to me /sarcasm.
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3irty1


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 250
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking he's merely a low risk longshot at a position of need while simultaneously trolling Packers fans.

Judging by the actions of Packers management Bishop is drastically underselling his injury and if he really signed for the 840k (7 year minimum)+ incentives that's reported, that just strengthens that conclusion.

This is a big boy injury.

http://www.amjorthopedics.com/PDF/042060038.pdf

This is a study on complete hamstring ruptures in the NFL and their recovery results. I think table III on page 2 shows exactly how unlikely Bishop is to ever play another down of football:

The average draft round of players who returned after the injury: 3.25
The average draft round of players who didn't return: 5.5
Average games played before the injury for successful returners: 49.875
Average games played before injury for unsuccessful returners: 36.5
Average games played after the injury for successful returners: 38.5
Average games played after the injury for unsuccessful returners: 0

Its worth noting though that the specialist that Rudolph worked with predraft was from Owatana and the region seems to be the leader in this kind of treatment as it was even mentioned in the above study. Good chance this had something to do with Desmond's decision as well to sign in that area where he'll have access to the best specialists.
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ramonesfan


Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 1728
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In regards to Jennings, a vast majority of Vikings fans I knew, as well as the endearing Paul Allen, all felt that Harvin was a much better wide receiver and was a much more dangerous threat than Jennings, until Harvin was traded and Jennings was signed. Now Jennings is that receiver that's going to put Ponder over the top and Harvin was an underperforming wide out who was nothing but potential. Amazing how opinions can change.

And yes, Packer fans were enamoured with Bishop returning until he was released and signed by the Vikings. Then we felt he hadn't fully recovered from past injuries and was slow and a product of blitz packages. It's tough to be unbiased when your favorite team is involved.

That being said Jennings and Bishop will both improve the Vikings, but neither guy, Bishop moreso than Jennings, will be enough to take over games and bring the Vikings to that next level.
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Kampman74


Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramonesfan wrote:
In regards to Jennings, a vast majority of Vikings fans I knew, as well as the endearing Paul Allen, all felt that Harvin was a much better wide receiver and was a much more dangerous threat than Jennings, until Harvin was traded and Jennings was signed. Now Jennings is that receiver that's going to put Ponder over the top and Harvin was an underperforming wide out who was nothing but potential. Amazing how opinions can change.

And yes, Packer fans were enamoured with Bishop returning until he was released and signed by the Vikings. Then we felt he hadn't fully recovered from past injuries and was slow and a product of blitz packages. It's tough to be unbiased when your favorite team is involved.

That being said Jennings and Bishop will both improve the Vikings, but neither guy, Bishop moreso than Jennings, will be enough to take over games and bring the Vikings to that next level.



Ah all of this is so true!!!
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CriminalMind


Joined: 25 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harvin is going to be the better WR compared to Jennings (going forward)
Harvin's talents will be better utilized in SEA then in MIN

However, Disgruntely Harvin (future uncertainty) < Jennings + Rhodes + Future 3rd + etc

And to add:
Even if Bishop (GB) > Bishop (MIN), all that matters is Medium-Healthy Bishop (MIN) >> Healthy Brinkley
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Silver Bullet


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramonesfan wrote:
That being said Jennings and Bishop will both improve the Vikings, but neither guy, Bishop moreso than Jennings, will be enough to take over games and bring the Vikings to that next level.


It's not that they will be able to take over games but they plug up some gaping holes, which will allow other Vikings players to bring their game to the next level. There will definitely be breakout seasons by Vikings players this year due to their additions.
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ramonesfan


Joined: 03 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver Bullet wrote:
ramonesfan wrote:
That being said Jennings and Bishop will both improve the Vikings, but neither guy, Bishop moreso than Jennings, will be enough to take over games and bring the Vikings to that next level.


It's not that they will be able to take over games but they plug up some gaping holes, which will allow other Vikings players to bring their game to the next level. There will definitely be breakout seasons by Vikings players this year due to their additions.
You could say that about any player signed or drafted. You could even say that about guys that are a year older will lead them to a breakout season. I can name a large handful of Packer players that will be better because they're a year older, no longer injured, or are going to be helped by the players we drafted. Again, can be said by everybody.

Jennings wasn't signed to plug a hole. You don't sign a guy to the contract he had to simply plug a hole.

Bishop is a hole plug with some upside.

Ah, rambling posts that bring nothing new to the discussion. I just like putting finger to keyboard at times...
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
Harvin is going to be the better WR compared to Jennings (going forward)
Harvin's talents will be better utilized in SEA then in MIN

However, Disgruntely Harvin (future uncertainty) < Jennings + Rhodes + Future 3rd + etc

And to add:
Even if Bishop (GB) > Bishop (MIN), all that matters is Medium-Healthy Bishop (MIN) >> Healthy Brinkley


Good point here. Keeping Harvin means Jennings and Rhodes doesnt happen.

Given the extra picks MN had, trading back into round one probably doesnt happen either.
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