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State of the Franchise: Defensive Line Edition
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: State of the Franchise: Defensive Line Edition Reply with quote

State of the Franchise: Defensive Line Edition

My second installment this year of my State of's. This time I've elected to not include the players that are no longer with the team such as Frostee Rucker and Juqua Parker. Not only are they not with the team, their numbers wouldn't have much relevance to the new scheme anyways.

So here we go. If anyone wants to take a look at last years DL page here it is. While your there you can check out the 5 page debate between Mistake and myself Wink

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=493962&start=0

Also take a look at the Run Defense thread I did. I decided to include both in one thread this year.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=497548

A few things to point out quickly-
-Pass Rush Productivity (PRR) is the total amount of sacks, hits, and hurries compared to pass rush attempts, with a weighting towards sacks.

-Run Stop % is the total amount of stop in the RUN GAME ONLY in comparison to run play snaps.

-All rankings that I've included are among players that played at least 50% of their teams snaps.

- Also, I would have liked to include a first eight games and final eight games comparisons of the younger guys as I usually do, but b/c of the huge rotation of players we have, it's nearly impossible.

HERE WE GO

Jabaal Sheard

Snaps- 1015
Pen- 6
Sacks- 7 (6)
Hits- 4 (1)
Hurries- 26 (9)
MT- 4
Pass rush snaps-
PRR- 5.6 (35th)
Run play snaps-
Run Stop %- 6.4% (13th)

notes- Its almost looks like Sheard flipped everything about himself. His pass rush was terrible, but his run stopping abilities were respectable. In 2011, it was quite the opposite. Sheard also had 19 snaps where he dropped into coverage.

Billy Winn

Snaps- 721
Pen- 3
Sacks- 1 (0)
Hits- 6 (3)
Hurries- 12 (eighth)
MT- 2
Pass rush snaps- 433 (196)
PRR- 3.6 (23rd)
Run play snaps- 270 (112)
Run Stop %- 6.6 (25th)

notes-

Phil Taylor

Snaps- 273
Pen- 1
Sacks- 1
Hits- 1
Hurries- 6
MT- 3
Pass rush snaps- 133
PRR- 5.1 (13th)
Run play snaps- 138
Run Stop %- 10.7 (2nd)

notes- Big Phil was sorely missed. Had he been fully healthy the whole offseason and been able to play day one, I think he may have had a huge season. I'm very excited to see this guy play in Horton's scheme.

Ahtyba Rubin

Snaps- 691
Pen- 1
Sacks- 2
Hits- 4
Hurries- 12
MT-
Pass rush snaps- 426
PRR- 3.6 (23rd)
Run play snaps- 264
Run Stop %- 8.6% (6th)

notes-Rubin did what he does best. Played at a top level vs the run. He was hurt mid year and played next to a lot of inexperience. I have a feeling he will be the first player to come off the field in Horton's scheme. He's very similar to Dan Williams in Arizona. He will be on the field for obvious run downs, but I see him being removed for 3rd and 2nd and long situations.

John Hughes

Snaps- 530
Pen- 1
Sacks- 3
Hits- 0
Hurries- 6
MT- 2
Pass rush snaps- 287
PRR- 2.8 (27th)
Run play snaps- 239
Run Stop %- 6.9 (17th)

notes-

Ishmaa'ly Kitchen

Snaps- 212
Pen- 0
Sacks- 0
Hits- 2
Hurries- 3
MT- 2
Pass rush snaps- 104
PRR- 3.8 (22nd)
Run play snaps- 108
Run Stop %- 5.9% (32nd)

notes- He has the prototypical size for a NT at 6'1 and 330 lbs. We will see if he can continue to improve through this offseason. I doubt he sees the field much other than run plays to spell Taylor or Rubin.


Run Defense

For the season, it looked like this. Numbers show the offense production against our defense line. So, left side C gap would be toward the RIGHT defensive end. These numbers include RB's ONLY. QB scrambles and end arounds are not included.

All numbers at YPC.

Left Side
A. 3.9
B. 4.6
C. 4.2
D. 5.4

Right Side
A. 5.1
B. 3.0
C. 3.9
D. 4.1

-We know the Browns had some major issues among the DT's for the season. They didn't have Taylor until week 9, and missed Rubin for a 3 game stretch. Here's how those three games looked like without either Rubin or Taylor.

Left Side
A. 4.3
B. 4.8

Right Side
A. 2.9
B. 3.0


-After week 11, the Browns were, for the most part, fully healthy along the defensive line. So lets take a look at what happened in weeks 11 - 17

Left Side
A. 3.0
B. 3.3
C. 4.4
D. 5.5

Right Side
A. 6.3**
B. 1.9
C. 2.6
D. 4.8

** I wanted to make a special note here. This number is so high b/c it includes Jamaal Charles 80 yard TD run. I like to include the whole picture of things like this, but looking at the other numbers in the gaps beside the right A gap, it would suggest that that play may have been a fluke. Taking that one play out, the number would be 2.8 YPC instead of 6.3.

Notes- The second part of the season really showed a major difference. Other than the outside plays (D gaps) the browns did a admirable job stopping the run. The Browns had some major mix and matching going on at OLB throughout the year, so I'm sure that contributed to the outside runs. On the other hand, the Browns were very solid with DQ and a solid rotation of DT's in the middle. I think the results showed.

Desmond Bryant

I've posted this information before, but I wanted to include it here as well. Keep in mind that Bryant played both DT and DE for OAK.

Here are his combined stats for the last 3 years
'12/'11/'10 Total/avg

Snaps- 645/ 596/ 333 = 1574

Pass rush snaps- 350/ 222/ 138 = 710
Sacks- 4/ 6/ 3 = 13
Hits- 11/ 2/ 1 = 14
Hurries- 20/ 12/ 8 = 40
Pass Rush Percentage- 7.8/ 7.4/ 7.1 = 7.5 (would rank 10th among '12 DT's)

Run play snaps- 257/ 226/ 144 = 627
Run Stops-16/ 21/ 12 = 49
Run Stop %- 6.2/ 9.3/ 8.3 = 7.8 (would rank 18th among '12 DT's)

*- Other than last year, Bryant ranked very highly in Run Stop %, having a combined rating of 8.9% for 2010 and 2011. Which would rank 4th this past season.

MT-2/ 1/ 1 = 4
Pen-4/ 4/ 2 = 10


FINAL ANALYSIS- Imagining Bryant and Taylor on the line with Kruger, Mingo, Sheard, and DQ as the LB's while in the nickle really have me excited about the pass rush. Which is an area that this DL struggled with big time last year. If you look at the DL numbers from last year in the link I provided, you'll see a sizable jump in improvement. Which is excited considering the young guys and the addition of Bryant.
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I left the notes blank for Winn and Hughes b/c I'm going to try and break down some second half season stuff for them.

Sheard's second half season numbers are in parenthesis.
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DawgX


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really excited about Cleveland's defensive line this season.

You said Rubin reminds you of Dan Williams, which isn't a bad comparison, but Williams played NT for Arizona. From what I've heard, Rubin is projected to start at DE and Taylor at NT. Maybe that will work out, but I've always thought that Rubin should start at NT while Taylor starts at DE.
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgX wrote:
I'm really excited about Cleveland's defensive line this season.

You said Rubin reminds you of Dan Williams, which isn't a bad comparison, but Williams played NT for Arizona. From what I've heard, Rubin is projected to start at DE and Taylor at NT. Maybe that will work out, but I've always thought that Rubin should start at NT while Taylor starts at DE.


Similar type of player. Very stout vs the run, not so much rushing the passer.

Rubin is down to 305 lbs. this year to play DE. He was down to 315 last year to play the 3 tech. He's no longer the 330 lbs NT from 2 years ago. While Rubin is as strong as they come and he plays very disciplined, Taylor is the far superior athlete with the strength.

You can count on seeing more 2 down lineman than 3 this upcoming year, I can assure you of that. So you'll see plenty of "shading" of the Center going on. There will be no straight up 34 of the Romeo Crennel version. Horton implements a pretty standard 34 alignment with a ton of shifting and sub packages.

This is a great read if you have the time
http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/05/an-in-depth-look-inside-ray-hortons-defense/
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DaWg_LB.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: State of the Franchise: Defensive Line Edition Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:

FINAL ANALYSIS- Imagining Bryant and Taylor on the line with Kruger, Mingo, Sheard, and DQ as the LB's while in the nickle really have me excited about the pass rush. Which is an area that this DL struggled with big time last year. If you look at the DL numbers from last year in the link I provided, you'll see a sizable jump in improvement. Which is excited considering the young guys and the addition of Bryant.


Ive had a very similar dream with the attacking MultiFront D......and Hortons 2/4/5 D...I dream of Rubin and Taylor each shaded over a guard, with Sheard and Kruger at OLB, DQ at inside and Mingo as the Joker, with Hayden and Skrine/SD.State at the CB's...Tay.Gip deep and the two Safty/Rovers are TJ Ward and Bendomosi Johnson.....this D would stop the run, rush the passer and I think CURE the Read Option crap.....
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Last edited by DaWg_LB. on Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ReggieCamp


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sold on Rubin being a great DE, but I'm guessing he'll be solid. But I am legitimately excited about Bryant. I haven't watched all his games, obviously, but I did make a point of going back and watching several of his games after we signed him. Bryant will be a terror as a 3-4 DE, imo. I think it's the best fit for his skill set.

One thing Rubin and Bryant have in common: max effort / high motor. It's so rare to have a 300-pounder who goes all out every play, and we are fortunate enough to have 2 of them.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I would share this little nugget I found.

http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/05/browns-film-room-jabaal-sheard/

Quote:
In watching tape from the 2012 season, I noted that six of Jabaal Sheard’s seven sacks came from a stand-up position. As the season went on, it was apparent that either Sheard was more comfortable standing up and rushing or the Browns’ coaching staff felt that Sheard was better as a stand-up rusher. Sheard progressively stood up and rushed on more and more snaps as the season progressed. According to ProFootballFocus, Sheard stood up on 22.1% of pass plays and dropped into coverage on 6.1% of those plays during the 2012 season.


Quote:
All in all, I do not believe that the transition to the 3-4 will be difficult for Jabaal Sheard. As you could see in the illustrations above, Sheard played with his hand off the ground much more often in 2012 than most people realize (179 out of 1,015 snaps to be exact; 17.6% of the time).

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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should be in good shape on def. line both starters and depth.
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bruceb


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The D line almost without doubt, on paper at least, is our strongest unit.
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DawgX


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
I thought I would share this little nugget I found.

http://www.draftbrowns.com/2013/05/browns-film-room-jabaal-sheard/

Quote:
In watching tape from the 2012 season, I noted that six of Jabaal Sheard’s seven sacks came from a stand-up position. As the season went on, it was apparent that either Sheard was more comfortable standing up and rushing or the Browns’ coaching staff felt that Sheard was better as a stand-up rusher. Sheard progressively stood up and rushed on more and more snaps as the season progressed. According to ProFootballFocus, Sheard stood up on 22.1% of pass plays and dropped into coverage on 6.1% of those plays during the 2012 season.


Quote:
All in all, I do not believe that the transition to the 3-4 will be difficult for Jabaal Sheard. As you could see in the illustrations above, Sheard played with his hand off the ground much more often in 2012 than most people realize (179 out of 1,015 snaps to be exact; 17.6% of the time).


That's good to hear. I think Sheard should be a good pass rushing OLB, but I'm not sure how good he'll be at covering the pass and stopping the run. I'm excited to see how well he plays because you know he's going to be extremely motivated with Kruger and Mingo being brought in this offseason.
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KamTrus20


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been preaching about Sheard's excellent play standing up for a while now, but I didn't even realize how good it was. 6 out of 7? Didn't realize it was that much. Only standing up on 17% of snaps and getting those results vs. hand in ground results is a very good indicator he can play in a 34 very well.

Our numbers against the run would be exceptionally high if out team would learn how to tackle. I cannot tell you how many times I saw last season where the defensive line blew up the run only to miss a tackle or a linebacker fail to do his job and scrap.
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mtmmike


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well first of all excellent post bulldog.
2 looks really good for sheard standing up how many of those sacks came after haden came back?
3 this line is going to get run on.
4 chemistry with a new team amd so many new players nobody will be playing with instinct.
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DawgX


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtmmike wrote:
well first of all excellent post bulldog.
2 looks really good for sheard standing up how many of those sacks came after haden came back?
3 this line is going to get run on.
4 chemistry with a new team amd so many new players nobody will be playing with instinct.


Why do you say that?
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Thomas5737


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgX wrote:
mtmmike wrote:
well first of all excellent post bulldog.
2 looks really good for sheard standing up how many of those sacks came after haden came back?
3 this line is going to get run on.
4 chemistry with a new team amd so many new players nobody will be playing with instinct.


Why do you say that?


Yeah, I think run stopping will be their strength. LB's, that may be different.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I absolutely LOVE our defensive line. I think we may have the best overall 3-4 defensive line in the entire NFL. The Texans actually likely get the nod because Watt is that good. But our overall talent and depth is awesome.
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