Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Vontae Leach
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Green Bay Packers
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Should we bring Leach into the fold?
Yay
50%
 50%  [ 14 ]
Nay
50%
 50%  [ 14 ]
Total Votes : 28

Author Message
spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10321
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
You are way overrating Kuhn and the impact, or lack of, he has on this team. His ST's play is easily replaced by a back up LB, DL or DB. His run blocking is questionable. His rushing is terrible. His pass catching is solid though but Leach and Kuhn are about the same in that area. Kuhn couldn't touch the kind of run blocker Leach is. Couldn't even come close.


So who are you going to trot out there? DL? Please. Kuhn is a coverage guy on ST, not a wide body. He's also going to be a much better pass blocker than Leach because Kuhn knows the reads and the offense. It would take Leach a considerable amount of time to become that sort of blitz pickup guy, and even if he does learn it as well, I still think Kuhn is the better pass blocker.

ALL you gain from Leach is the run blocking. You lose ST, your most trusted pass blocking RB, and a guy who is versatile and comfortable in a pretty wide variety of roles. You wouldn't even end up saving any money. Leach is going to cost at least about the same as Kuhn, if not more, plus cutting Kuhn would cost you about 750k in dead money this year.

I just don't see why adding a one dimensional run blocking FB makes any sense at all.
_________________
Wilfred wrote:
Memory is like the Packers when they are behind by two touchdowns in the 4th quarter... It comes back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Polaris


Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 3129
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, yeah, sure......he'll fit right in with all the other 30 year old FA that Thompson has signed.

Answer=no. If I want to add a fullback, I'll add one that's younger and cheaper. I understand that some fullbacks have played well when they were past 30, like William Henderson. But this team is clearly being built through the draft and the plan is to keep the roster young. Adding Leach is at cross-purposes with that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ketchup


Joined: 13 May 2009
Posts: 13672
Location: Milwaukee, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, the only way I would want Leach is if he's on the cheap which I don't expect at all. Either way though, Kuhn should be cut. Way to much money for what he does. A combo of Franklin, Lacy and Harris can replace his pass protecting. Back up LB or DB can easily replace his STs play. Just about anyone could be a better short yardage back then him. Just no value on the money we are paying him.
_________________

Kempes on the custom sig!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10321
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next year, maybe one of those 3 RBs can take over, but it's going to be at least that long before any of them is near as good at the reads as Kuhn. It's not something most RBs really work on as part of their craft. Counting on Lacy, Franklin, or Harris to be that guy this year has a solid chance of getting Rodgers head ripped off at some point.

You keep saying "backup LB or DB can replace him on ST", but there is probably going to be a drop there. It's like the pass blocking. Most players don't WORK on that. Kuhn knows that his paycheck comes because he is good at the dirty work, and he's worked hard to be good at those things not many other players try to be good at. Kuhn's already been paid a 450k roster bonus for this year and has 250k prorated of his signing bonus. He might not be resigned after this season, but he simply is NOT going to get cut.
_________________
Wilfred wrote:
Memory is like the Packers when they are behind by two touchdowns in the 4th quarter... It comes back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
rbens06


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 788
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
Next year, maybe one of those 3 RBs can take over, but it's going to be at least that long before any of them is near as good at the reads as Kuhn. It's not something most RBs really work on as part of their craft. Counting on Lacy, Franklin, or Harris to be that guy this year has a solid chance of getting Rodgers head ripped off at some point.

You keep saying "backup LB or DB can replace him on ST", but there is probably going to be a drop there. It's like the pass blocking. Most players don't WORK on that. Kuhn knows that his paycheck comes because he is good at the dirty work, and he's worked hard to be good at those things not many other players try to be good at. Kuhn's already been paid a 450k roster bonus for this year and has 250k prorated of his signing bonus. He might not be resigned after this season, but he simply is NOT going to get cut.


Completely agree with this. McCarthy would have to have the utmost confidence in one of the backs to handle the pass pro, which I doubt is the case. As you mentioned rookies take time and none of the three veterans we have played that role. Starks, in the limited amount he was available, was used as a 1st and 2nd down runner. Green and Harris both were never really put in that spot this past season. Sure some of them may be able to do it for a play or series, but Kuhn has proven to do it consistently all game and season long. It only takes one mental lapse or wrong read to get Rodgers decked. Not to say Kuhn will not have any lapse or misreads, but the likelihood is smaller with his experience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 12942
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Lorenzo Neal joined the Chargers he was older than Leach is now. I'm for bringing Leach in. Kuhn isn't a better pass threat than five players we already have on the field (Lacy takes him out in 1 back shotguns sets, IMO) and Leach is a better blocker. If we get him for 6M for 3 years we'd only be paying like 450,000 more this year on the FB position if we cut Kuhn (doubt we'd keep two FB's on the roster). I'd give up 450,000 for 3 years of an elite blocking FB>one year of Kuhn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Polaris


Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 3129
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
When Lorenzo Neal joined the Chargers he was older than Leach is now.


Yes, let's follow the Chargers model. It's been so much more successful than the Packers model.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 12942
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polaris wrote:
justo wrote:
When Lorenzo Neal joined the Chargers he was older than Leach is now.


Yes, let's follow the Chargers model. It's been so much more successful than the Packers model.


Okay, boss
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
rbens06


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 788
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
When Lorenzo Neal joined the Chargers he was older than Leach is now. I'm for bringing Leach in. Kuhn isn't a better pass threat than five players we already have on the field (Lacy takes him out in 1 back shotguns sets, IMO) and Leach is a better blocker. If we get him for 6M for 3 years we'd only be paying like 450,000 more this year on the FB position if we cut Kuhn (doubt we'd keep two FB's on the roster). I'd give up 450,000 for 3 years of an elite blocking FB>one year of Kuhn


Agree that Leach is the better run blocker, but I think that Kuhn is a better pass blocker and pass catcher. My biggest concern is that we would not have the personal protector for Rodgers. I know you said Lacy, but I am not sure if he will have the scheme/reads down for day 1.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dijatool


Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Posts: 352
Location: SoCal
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
When Lorenzo Neal joined the Chargers he was older than Leach is now. I'm for bringing Leach in. Kuhn isn't a better pass threat than five players we already have on the field (Lacy takes him out in 1 back shotguns sets, IMO) and Leach is a better blocker. If we get him for 6M for 3 years we'd only be paying like 450,000 more this year on the FB position if we cut Kuhn (doubt we'd keep two FB's on the roster). I'd give up 450,000 for 3 years of an elite blocking FB>one year of Kuhn

Do you recall why Leach left GB initially? He was terrible catching the ball, beyond awful. He has certainly improved in that area, but enough to be better at it than Kuhn?

Factor in everything else and it seems unlikely to happen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 12942
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd rather have a FB block than catch. We have plenty better pass catchers than Kuhn.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ketchup


Joined: 13 May 2009
Posts: 13672
Location: Milwaukee, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dijatool wrote:
justo wrote:
When Lorenzo Neal joined the Chargers he was older than Leach is now. I'm for bringing Leach in. Kuhn isn't a better pass threat than five players we already have on the field (Lacy takes him out in 1 back shotguns sets, IMO) and Leach is a better blocker. If we get him for 6M for 3 years we'd only be paying like 450,000 more this year on the FB position if we cut Kuhn (doubt we'd keep two FB's on the roster). I'd give up 450,000 for 3 years of an elite blocking FB>one year of Kuhn

Do you recall why Leach left GB initially? He was terrible catching the ball, beyond awful. He has certainly improved in that area, but enough to be better at it than Kuhn?

Factor in everything else and it seems unlikely to happen.
Kuhn, in his last 2 seasons, caught 30 balls for 225 yards. Mind you, that's in a pass happy offense with the best QB in the league. Leach, in his past two season, caught 36 balls for 212 yards. Mind you, that's in a run heavy offense with a fringe top 10 QB.

So yes, he has improved enough to be called at least equal with Kuhn IMO.
_________________

Kempes on the custom sig!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
RashaanSalaami


Global Moderator
Most Valuable Poster
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 29843
Location: Jersey
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Vontae Leach Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
GreenReign wrote:
Leach is about to be cut or traded by the Ravens due to contract issues. Anyways, with all the focus on running the ball this year and with rookies Lacy and Franklin in the fold, why not go out and sign the best road grading FB in the NFL, who can also be a viable check down option out of the backfield. He is a better player than John Kuhn, and he can provide way better blocking with similar offensive output. So what do you guys think?


If the price is right!!!
All depends on how much it takes to sign him. Does cutting Kuhn cause any dead money this year? What is Leach's contract for this year if we trade for him.

I think he would be an upgrade if all the money is equal, which I am thinking it would not be, then it comes down to value/cost.


He'd just count $250,000 against the cap if cut.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10321
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Vontae Leach Reply with quote

RashaanSalaami wrote:
squire12 wrote:
GreenReign wrote:
Leach is about to be cut or traded by the Ravens due to contract issues. Anyways, with all the focus on running the ball this year and with rookies Lacy and Franklin in the fold, why not go out and sign the best road grading FB in the NFL, who can also be a viable check down option out of the backfield. He is a better player than John Kuhn, and he can provide way better blocking with similar offensive output. So what do you guys think?


If the price is right!!!
All depends on how much it takes to sign him. Does cutting Kuhn cause any dead money this year? What is Leach's contract for this year if we trade for him.

I think he would be an upgrade if all the money is equal, which I am thinking it would not be, then it comes down to value/cost.


He'd just count $250,000 against the cap if cut.


+ the 450k roster bonus that was already paid out
_________________
Wilfred wrote:
Memory is like the Packers when they are behind by two touchdowns in the 4th quarter... It comes back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
persiandud


Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 907
Location: Davis, CA
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All for it, Leach can help Lacy out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Green Bay Packers All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group