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Should we bring Leach into the fold?
Yay
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Nay
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Total Votes : 28

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GreenReign


Joined: 17 Apr 2013
Posts: 324
Location: 31 Spooner St.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:43 am    Post subject: Vontae Leach Reply with quote

Leach is about to be cut or traded by the Ravens due to contract issues. Anyways, with all the focus on running the ball this year and with rookies Lacy and Franklin in the fold, why not go out and sign the best road grading FB in the NFL, who can also be a viable check down option out of the backfield. He is a better player than John Kuhn, and he can provide way better blocking with similar offensive output. So what do you guys think?
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: Vontae Leach Reply with quote

GreenReign wrote:
Leach is about to be cut or traded by the Ravens due to contract issues. Anyways, with all the focus on running the ball this year and with rookies Lacy and Franklin in the fold, why not go out and sign the best road grading FB in the NFL, who can also be a viable check down option out of the backfield. He is a better player than John Kuhn, and he can provide way better blocking with similar offensive output. So what do you guys think?


If the price is right!!!
All depends on how much it takes to sign him. Does cutting Kuhn cause any dead money this year? What is Leach's contract for this year if we trade for him.

I think he would be an upgrade if all the money is equal, which I am thinking it would not be, then it comes down to value/cost.
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Pugger


Joined: 01 May 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't Leach on the wrong side of 30?
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driftwood


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pugger wrote:
Isn't Leach on the wrong side of 30?


hes strictly a blocking a FB... hes got the longevity of a veteran OL IMO
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GBPackers79


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pugger wrote:
Isn't Leach on the wrong side of 30?


Mack Strong was an All-Pro at 33 until injuries forced him out. Lorenzo Neal was an All-Pro at what, 37? Tony Richardson an All-Pro at 35. William Henderson was an All-Pro for us at 33 as well, I believe.

Not so sure the "wrong side of 30" thing applies to fullbacks. Could potentially get 3-5 years out of Leach. He's 31.
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MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the price is right. I'd love to cut Kuhn and have Leach. Leach and Lacy would bring a very different feel to this team, that is for sure. I doubt like hell it happens though. Damn Kuhn and his big paychecks Evil or Very Mad
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Ketchup


Joined: 13 May 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Either way Kuhn should be cut. Making to much money for the very little, and I mean microscopic, impact he has on this team. Would love to have Leach at a reasonable salary to replace Kuhn.
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gizmo2012


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
Either way Kuhn should be cut. Making to much money for the very little, and I mean microscopic, impact he has on this team. Would love to have Leach at a reasonable salary to replace Kuhn.


I tend to agree. Leach is a cut above Kuhn and I love Kuhn, but Leach is an outstanding FB who can catch a few passes. In fact, Leach has caught more passes than Kuhn over the last couple of years.
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rbens06


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would assume Kuhn is cut if Leach was added. So, to me it would depend on how up to speed our other backs are in the passing game. Based on last season it seems McCarthy has the most confidence in Kuhn being a blocking back for Rodgers. If McCarthy feels confident in one of our veterans, Green/Starks/Harris, or one of the rookies Lacy/Franklin/Pease, then I am on board with it, but otherwise Kuhn's presence makes sense. I think that Leach would undoubtedly bring a better run blocking and physical presence to our team, but in no way would I sacrifice pass blocking for that. Our team is going to run through the pass for the foreseeable future and making that switch would need to have no affect on the passing game.

As far as fit and likelihood of happening, I do not see it. Leach is built for a power running team. I know that McCarthy wants to get more physical and run more, but we are still going to be a passing team. Look at the teams and their styles he played with. When he was here it was when our offense went through Ahman Green. Houston offense has been a running offense as is Baltimore.
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Pugger


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

driftwood wrote:
Pugger wrote:
Isn't Leach on the wrong side of 30?


hes strictly a blocking a FB... hes got the longevity of a veteran OL IMO


OIC

Do you guys think he's better than Kuhn?
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ugLymayNe


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Yes

This offense this year is going to be interesting. On one hand, we have 3 very good WRs, a decent TE and most of the line can pass block well. On the other we are investing heavily in the run game with the draft and OL switches. Probably our biggest weakness is a lead blocker in that department, in my opinion. There would be a trade off with switching from Kuhn to Leach(3rd down utility vs lead blocking).

My question is: Will McCarthy actually use a lead blocker often enough to warrant signing Leach? Base offense would be something else with Nelson, Jones(or Cobb), Finley, Lacy & Leach on the field...But would that FB be on the field over one of the three WRs the majority of the time? I think not. Kuhn has more utility on 3rd down to the Packers simply because he has been here and knows what is going on at all times(because he has to). He knows where he is supposed to be in pass pro and there is value in that. That offense is going away next year and I personally see the Packers looking for an all-around TE that can block(Quarless?) to go along with the two 3-down RB's they drafted this year.
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PACKRULE


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it sad that Leach would be noted by many fans to be better then Kuhn. What would he be better at? Pure run blocking? That is about it. Kuhn plays and excels on almost every special teams unit we have, is there value to that? Would leach add value to Steams? I doubt it, does or would Leach's value as a run blocker out-value Kuhn's total value to our team. Not enough thought process beyond that of highlights and stats on here at times. Fans need to look at the bigger picture.

Leach, no way no point why pay him Kuhn's salary or greater to just block and add nothing else. Pay Kuhn and allow him to block more then he has in the past. He is a FB and a decent run blocker.
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rbens06


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PACKRULE wrote:
I find it sad that Leach would be noted by many fans to be better then Kuhn. What would he be better at? Pure run blocking? That is about it. Kuhn plays and excels on almost every special teams unit we have, is there value to that? Would leach add value to Steams? I doubt it, does or would Leach's value as a run blocker out-value Kuhn's total value to our team. Not enough thought process beyond that of highlights and stats on here at times. Fans need to look at the bigger picture.

Leach, no way no point why pay him Kuhn's salary or greater to just block and add nothing else. Pay Kuhn and allow him to block more then he has in the past. He is a FB and a decent run blocker.


Value does not always make for the better player. I think that Leach v. Kuhn is not really an apples to apples comparison. Leach is a lead blocking, physical fullback that is/has been a better run blocker than Kuhn. Kuhn is a more versatile player that offers a better passing game and special teams value. Looking at their games they are pretty much polar opposites. Leach's deficiencies are Kuhn's strengths and Kuhn's deficiencies are Leach's strength. Like you said Kuhn offers more value than Leach, but I do not think that makes him the better player, but just the better fit for us. Who is our better fit, I would say Kuhn at this point, but is Kuhn a better fit for a power run team, probably not.
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Ketchup


Joined: 13 May 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PACKRULE wrote:
I find it sad that Leach would be noted by many fans to be better then Kuhn. What would he be better at? Pure run blocking? That is about it. Kuhn plays and excels on almost every special teams unit we have, is there value to that? Would leach add value to Steams? I doubt it, does or would Leach's value as a run blocker out-value Kuhn's total value to our team. Not enough thought process beyond that of highlights and stats on here at times. Fans need to look at the bigger picture.

Leach, no way no point why pay him Kuhn's salary or greater to just block and add nothing else. Pay Kuhn and allow him to block more then he has in the past. He is a FB and a decent run blocker.
You are way overrating Kuhn and the impact, or lack of, he has on this team. His ST's play is easily replaced by a back up LB, DL or DB. His run blocking is questionable. His rushing is terrible. His pass catching is solid though but Leach and Kuhn are about the same in that area. Kuhn couldn't touch the kind of run blocker Leach is. Couldn't even come close.
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rbens06


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ugLymayNe wrote:
^ Yes

This offense this year is going to be interesting. On one hand, we have 3 very good WRs, a decent TE and most of the line can pass block well. On the other we are investing heavily in the run game with the draft and OL switches. Probably our biggest weakness is a lead blocker in that department, in my opinion. There would be a trade off with switching from Kuhn to Leach(3rd down utility vs lead blocking).

My question is: Will McCarthy actually use a lead blocker often enough to warrant signing Leach? Base offense would be something else with Nelson, Jones(or Cobb), Finley, Lacy & Leach on the field...But would that FB be on the field over one of the three WRs the majority of the time? I think not. Kuhn has more utility on 3rd down to the Packers simply because he has been here and knows what is going on at all times(because he has to). He knows where he is supposed to be in pass pro and there is value in that. That offense is going away next year and I personally see the Packers looking for an all-around TE that can block(Quarless?) to go along with the two 3-down RB's they drafted this year.


First, I agree that we invested into the run by taking both Lacy and Franklin, but I think the oline switch can be just as much about the pass game as it is the run game. We put our best two blockers on our quarterbacks blindside, which hopefully reduces the amount of hits he takes. Also, the lineman we drafted, at least to me, have more of a pass block feel to them than run block. I am not saying they are bad run blockers, but both their style and makeup seem to be better for pass blocking.

Second, I agree with the second part of the statement, but not really the first. I think that we might be looking to be a more balanced team moving forward, but with McCarthy and Rodgers I think we are still inline to be a pass first team. Using three, four, and five wide has been something McCarthy likes to do and I cannot see that changing drastically. Even if Jones is not back next year we still have Nelson and Cobb as a 1-2 combo and can develop/draft that third guy.
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