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#NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (Tebow)
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Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 12031
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
Grachuus wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
Richter wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
Dropkick_pride wrote:
developmental qb to sit and learn behind one of the best QBs and one of the best Coaches in the league...

huge upside. no downside. great move.


Yes there absolutely is a downside. A worthless player undermines the focus of a football team that has a championship to win.


You truly believe he is worthless? Lacking any sort of talent that can be utilized to help win games in any fashion?

If you care about winning games that matter? Yeah, he has no talent for that. When you can't throw in this league, you can't win, and he can't throw.

Also, the coverage of minicamp is already all about Tebow. Patriots blog on ESPN is absolutely ridiculous, last 8 stories about this scrub.


I said in any fashion. There is no doubt in my mind that Tebow will not have any passing attempts unless Brady is hurt.

Is his speed, athleticism, trucking ability, short yardage and the like also worthless in all fashions?


Speed/Short Yardage: Brady hasn't failed to convert a short yardage run since maybe 2003?

Brady has led the Patriots to more 10+ play drives in year than the second and third best teams combined typically. Why the hell would I care about short yardage and athleticism?


It's not about what Brady can and can't do. That's like saying we don't need a fast backup RB cause our starter is fast. We are talking about value that a player brings to the table in his own regard. Not in light of the undisputed starter.

And perhaps Belicheck wants to get away from putting his 35 year old QB at the bottom of a pile of a bunch of 300 pound lineman on QB sneaks and short yardage situations.

Not really the point anyway. The claim that Tebow is "worthless" means he can't throw, run, block, truck, or contribute to a winning effort in any possible means. Call him a bad QB all you want but calling him worthless as a football player in all regards is asinine.

Since they have better players in all those possible roles already, at multiple levels, that makes him WORTHLESS to the Patriots. There is not a single player on the roster, or amongst the regulars on offense, that I want to take off the field for Tebow. He can't throw better than Brady or Mallet, he can't run better than any of the backs, he can't block at all if his time with the Jets is any indication, and I'm not sure what you mean by trucking. If you mean running over a defender, they have multiple guys who can do that, as well. All this garbage about Tebow being a "football player" is just that, garbage. He's demonstrated no aptitude for these things, why do you insist that he has? He's not a tight end or an H-back or a fullback, he's a miserable excuse for a quarterback and has nothing to offer the 2013 Patriots beyond distractions.
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love you, Richter.
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Billy Spikes


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grachuus wrote:
Speed/Short Yardage: Brady hasn't failed to convert a short yardage run since maybe 2003?


Week 4 of the 2005 season, so yeah, he's surprisingly a short-yardage beast.

Quote:
Brady has converted on 49 straight 3rd-and-1/4th-and-1 rushes. Last stopped in Week 4 of 2005. #thankstimigotthis


http://twitter.com/jasonvida/statuses/344249723735121921

Quote:
Patriots didn't need much help. Patriots scored TDs on a league-high 70 percent of red-zone possessions last season.


http://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/statuses/344251721897373696

Quote:
I'd also be very surprised, based on precedence, if the Patriots signed Tim Tebow to run a package of plays at QB. Consider the following...


http://twitter.com/JeffDarlington/statuses/344250489111711744

Quote:
Patriots owner in 2009 about possibly signing Vick: "Why would we ever do anything that would take him [Brady] off the field for one play?


http://twitter.com/JeffDarlington/statuses/344250520602542080
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24isthelaw


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
Since they have better players in all those possible roles already, at multiple levels, that makes him WORTHLESS to the Patriots. There is not a single player on the roster, or amongst the regulars on offense, that I want to take off the field for Tebow. He can't throw better than Brady or Mallet, he can't run better than any of the backs, he can't block at all if his time with the Jets is any indication, and I'm not sure what you mean by trucking. If you mean running over a defender, they have multiple guys who can do that, as well. All this garbage about Tebow being a "football player" is just that, garbage. He's demonstrated no aptitude for these things, why do you insist that he has? He's not a tight end or an H-back or a fullback, he's a miserable excuse for a quarterback and has nothing to offer the 2013 Patriots beyond distractions.


Applause
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Shockey1979


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's a backup QB. He will never replace Brady on the field in any regard. Even if some trickery is used it will be with Brady and Tebow on the field. You can't hold a backup QB to a standard of throwing of the starter, or running of a running back, or catching of a TE. The fact that a QB possesses ability to do all of these things in one package is where the value lies. How many QB's in the NFL posses superior running ability then Tebow? How many QB's posses better blocking ability? Depending on the role Bill uses him will determine his value. Not your opinion of him. I'm no Belicheck fan but I know damn sure he wouldn't waste his time with any player he thought was "worthless". So who knows more... you or your hall of fame coach?
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Billy Spikes


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly the only positive usage Tebow can possibly have is as a team mascot to keep all the Florida guys happy, like i said before, I'm sure that him signing was just a way to get Brandon Spikes back to camp, it worked, now it's time to kick him outta the door.
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Grachuus


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:

It's not about what Brady can and can't do. That's like saying we don't need a fast backup RB cause our starter is fast. We are talking about value that a player brings to the table in his own regard. Not in light of the undisputed starter.

And perhaps Belicheck wants to get away from putting his 35 year old QB at the bottom of a pile of a bunch of 300 pound lineman on QB sneaks and short yardage situations.

Not really the point anyway. The claim that Tebow is "worthless" means he can't throw, run, block, truck, or contribute to a winning effort in any possible means. Call him a bad QB all you want but calling him worthless as a football player in all regards is asinine.


Let's put it this way: BB's entire coaching philosophy both offensively and defensively is about stringing together long methodical drives. Tebow simply does not do that. That's not how he works. It's more of a 3 and out until amazing type philosophy. You know how Brady got the consecutive passes without an int record? Do you know who held it before him? Bernie Kosar. Know who coached him? Willy B.

I just do not see how he fits into the mold that BB has for QB's. Maybe in a year we'll all see how he does. Right now the league doesn't view him as capable in that regard.
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see this as being any different than the Albert Haynesworth or Kellen Winslow Jr. experiments. Guy bottoms out and can't find work in the NFL, so BB brings him in to see if maybe he can offer something to this team. Perhaps on a lark. Different circumstances for each, but same mindset.
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Shockey1979


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grachuus wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:

It's not about what Brady can and can't do. That's like saying we don't need a fast backup RB cause our starter is fast. We are talking about value that a player brings to the table in his own regard. Not in light of the undisputed starter.

And perhaps Belicheck wants to get away from putting his 35 year old QB at the bottom of a pile of a bunch of 300 pound lineman on QB sneaks and short yardage situations.

Not really the point anyway. The claim that Tebow is "worthless" means he can't throw, run, block, truck, or contribute to a winning effort in any possible means. Call him a bad QB all you want but calling him worthless as a football player in all regards is asinine.


Let's put it this way: BB's entire coaching philosophy both offensively and defensively is about stringing together long methodical drives. Tebow simply does not do that. That's not how he works. It's more of a 3 and out until amazing type philosophy. You know how Brady got the consecutive passes without an int record? Do you know who held it before him? Bernie Kosar. Know who coached him? Willy B.

I just do not see how he fits into the mold that BB has for QB's. Maybe in a year we'll all see how he does. Right now the league doesn't view him as capable in that regard.


So if he doesn't fit the BB mold, and BB is the one who completely shut him down twice. He is completely useless in all regards. What in the world is he doing in your OTA? Do you know something BB doesn't? Or does he know something you don't?
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Shockey1979


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
I don't see this as being any different than the Albert Haynesworth or Kellen Winslow Jr. experiments. Guy bottoms out and can't find work in the NFL, so BB brings him in to see if maybe he can offer something to this team. Perhaps on a lark. Different circumstances for each, but same mindset.


I concur. It's a total no risk, high ceiling move. If Tebow hasn't improved Bill let's him go no harm done. If he has the Pats coach him up, refine him, get what they can out of him, showcase him in the preseason and in blowouts, entice another team with him then move him for a draft pick. Typical BB pickup. Some work out, some don't. But we can all agree none were "worthless" when given the shot.
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Grachuus


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:


So if he doesn't fit the BB mold, and BB is the one who completely shut him down twice. He is completely useless in all regards. What in the world is he doing in your OTA? Do you know something BB doesn't? Or does he know something you don't?


You mean the BB that has seemingly ceded many transactional responsibilities on offense to McD? Can I not find it questionable that this is the case?
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Shockey1979


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grachuus wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:


So if he doesn't fit the BB mold, and BB is the one who completely shut him down twice. He is completely useless in all regards. What in the world is he doing in your OTA? Do you know something BB doesn't? Or does he know something you don't?


You mean the BB that has seemingly ceded many transactional responsibilities on offense to McD? Can I not find it questionable that this is the case?


Probably is the case. But being that it's Bill who faces the criticism I highly doubt Tebow was brought in without his blessing.

So again I ask... if he doesn't fit the mold and he's worthless why is he at your OTA throwing passes?
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Richter


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
He's a backup QB. He will never replace Brady on the field in any regard. Even if some trickery is used it will be with Brady and Tebow on the field. You can't hold a backup QB to a standard of throwing of the starter, or running of a running back, or catching of a TE. The fact that a QB possesses ability to do all of these things in one package is where the value lies. How many QB's in the NFL posses superior running ability then Tebow? How many QB's posses better blocking ability? Depending on the role Bill uses him will determine his value. Not your opinion of him. I'm no Belicheck fan but I know damn sure he wouldn't waste his time with any player he thought was "worthless". So who knows more... you or your hall of fame coach?

Considering that I don't have a blind spot on the matter because I don't have the guy who drafted Tebow working as my OC, or one of my best friends being the guy who coached him in college and has gone to bat for him since, in this case, I do. Of course, I'm not debating Belichick on this, I'm debating you. And since you're claiming Tebow has a bunch of skills that he has not demonstrated in any form or fashion (catch like a tight end? Laughable), I definitely will stick with my assessment.
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Troy Brown


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
I don't see this as being any different than the Albert Haynesworth or Kellen Winslow Jr. experiments. Guy bottoms out and can't find work in the NFL, so BB brings him in to see if maybe he can offer something to this team. Perhaps on a lark. Different circumstances for each, but same mindset.


Do you think you could convince Richter to be this reasonable? Before he pops an eyeball?
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Troy Brown wrote:
Tzimisce wrote:
I don't see this as being any different than the Albert Haynesworth or Kellen Winslow Jr. experiments. Guy bottoms out and can't find work in the NFL, so BB brings him in to see if maybe he can offer something to this team. Perhaps on a lark. Different circumstances for each, but same mindset.


Do you think you could convince Richter to be this reasonable? Before he pops an eyeball?
No. Let him go through the stages of grief at his own pace.
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