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Earl vs Sherman
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Settle it
Earl Thomas
57%
 57%  [ 12 ]
Richard Sherman
42%
 42%  [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 21

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clubmember


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
Posts: 1146
Location: Washington
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
Tooki wrote:
It's harder to find a safety like ET than a corner like Sherm, mostly because teams are only just now looking at bigger corners.


No, no it is not.


Actually, it is. Think of demand here. In the draft, Earl Thomas went in the high first round because that type of player is in demand... 5'11 202 pound 4.3 speedster. Then a player like Sherman goes in the 5th round, mostly because most teams can't make a CB his size work. Everyone wishes they had a safety like Earl though. Why do you think they found our other starting CB, Brandon Browner, in the CFL???
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SoS


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clubmember wrote:
SoS wrote:
Tooki wrote:
It's harder to find a safety like ET than a corner like Sherm, mostly because teams are only just now looking at bigger corners.


No, no it is not.


Actually, it is. Think of demand here. In the draft, Earl Thomas went in the high first round because that type of player is in demand... 5'11 202 pound 4.3 speedster. Then a player like Sherman goes in the 5th round, mostly because most teams can't make a CB his size work. Everyone wishes they had a safety like Earl though. Why do you think they found our other starting CB, Brandon Browner, in the CFL???


Talk about a loaded explanation.

How about we look at this if we're going to try and use the draft to prove our points.

Since 2005, 8 cornerbacks have been drafted in the top 10 while only 5 safeties have been taken in that same range. Of those 8 CBs, 5 of them (Milliner/Claiborne/Gilmore/Peterson/Rolle) were considered big, physical press corners just like Sherman. And I'm not even counting guys like Carlos Rogers or Joe Haden who are actually known for their physical press skills but aren't as big. Pacman Jones is really the only outlier for the position. Whereas of those 5 safeties drafted, Michael Huff was the ONLY player drafted as a true free safety.

If you're going to talk about the draft indicating demand, let's look at how teams are drafting big, physical press corners as blue chip prospects whereas the FS position isn't getting nearly that type of attention. We can even look at how the two positions are paid by teams to see that franchises value lockdown CBs more than roaming safeties.
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Tooki


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since 2010, there has been no prospect like Earl (or Eric Berry) SoS. This past draft was CB heavy and S deficient and yet Kenny Vaccaro got drafted in the mid 1st round.

Also there has been no high round prospects like ET since 2010. It is very hard to find a deep cover safety like ET. Remember, ET was highly regarded coming out of college and he would have been drafted higher in later years.

Perhaps players like ET are harder to find and that's why safeties like him are not being drafted. They just aren't there to be drafted.
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sirensong


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Draft demand is not a good way to break this down. Corner is obviously a more valued position.

Earl makes FS the MOST valuable position on our D because of what he can do, that NO ONE else in the NFL can do. There isnt a safety in football that can play centerfield and be left back there alone like Earl can.

Corners like Sherm and Browner NEED safety help to be effective, problem is we bring Kam to the LOS regularly and he's not a deep cover type of SS. Earl covers BOTH safety poisitions in the pass game a large amount of the time in a system that requires MORE safety help than most and he makes that system dominant.
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hawksman81


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirensong wrote:
Draft demand is not a good way to break this down. Corner is obviously a more valued position.

Earl makes FS the MOST valuable position on our D because of what he can do, that NO ONE else in the NFL can do. There isnt a safety in football that can play centerfield and be left back there alone like Earl can.

Corners like Sherm and Browner NEED safety help to be effective, problem is we bring Kam to the LOS regularly and he's not a deep cover type of SS. Earl covers BOTH safety poisitions in the pass game a large amount of the time in a system that requires MORE safety help than most and he makes that system dominant.


This has been proven wrong multiple times.
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SoS


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hawksman81 wrote:
sirensong wrote:
Draft demand is not a good way to break this down. Corner is obviously a more valued position.

Earl makes FS the MOST valuable position on our D because of what he can do, that NO ONE else in the NFL can do. There isnt a safety in football that can play centerfield and be left back there alone like Earl can.

Corners like Sherm and Browner NEED safety help to be effective, problem is we bring Kam to the LOS regularly and he's not a deep cover type of SS. Earl covers BOTH safety poisitions in the pass game a large amount of the time in a system that requires MORE safety help than most and he makes that system dominant.


This has been proven wrong multiple times.


Yea, talk about seriously exaggerating at an attempt to make a point. Sherman has shown to be absolutely elite in island coverage.

Earl is getting seriously overrated. People are acting as if he's in on every play and can cover the entire field in a few steps.
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Tooki


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hawksman81 wrote:
sirensong wrote:
Draft demand is not a good way to break this down. Corner is obviously a more valued position.

Earl makes FS the MOST valuable position on our D because of what he can do, that NO ONE else in the NFL can do. There isnt a safety in football that can play centerfield and be left back there alone like Earl can.

Corners like Sherm and Browner NEED safety help to be effective, problem is we bring Kam to the LOS regularly and he's not a deep cover type of SS. Earl covers BOTH safety poisitions in the pass game a large amount of the time in a system that requires MORE safety help than most and he makes that system dominant.


This has been proven wrong multiple times.


I don't agree with this either. Sherm can play on an island.

Think of it like this SoS. How many deep throws were attempted against the Seahawks? How many deep throws were completed against the Seahawks? Why is that so? One factor is that Earl Thomas has the speed to eliminate any potential threat down the field. He is also making better decisions. Another factor is the coverage of Richard Sherman.
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sirensong


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tooki wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
sirensong wrote:
Draft demand is not a good way to break this down. Corner is obviously a more valued position.

Earl makes FS the MOST valuable position on our D because of what he can do, that NO ONE else in the NFL can do. There isnt a safety in football that can play centerfield and be left back there alone like Earl can.

Corners like Sherm and Browner NEED safety help to be effective, problem is we bring Kam to the LOS regularly and he's not a deep cover type of SS. Earl covers BOTH safety poisitions in the pass game a large amount of the time in a system that requires MORE safety help than most and he makes that system dominant.


This has been proven wrong multiple times.


I don't agree with this either. Sherm can play on an island.

Think of it like this SoS. How many deep throws were attempted against the Seahawks? How many deep throws were completed against the Seahawks? Why is that so? One factor is that Earl Thomas has the speed to eliminate any potential threat down the field. He is also making better decisions. Another factor is the coverage of Richard Sherman.


Ask Roddy White if Sherm needs help over the top. Sherm can play on an island, but he's not Revis. He's fantastic on an island and can be pro bowl player doing it, but there's no doubt hes a product of the system to a certain extent as well and Earl in my opinion is the irreplaceable part in that system.

There's alot more elite CB's than safeties, nevermind the fact that Earl is the only safety in football with his skillset. The drop off from Sherm to Peanut Tillman, to Patrick Peterson, to Antonio Cromartie is alot less than the drop off from Earl to the next centerfield safety.
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hawksman81


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirensong wrote:
Tooki wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
sirensong wrote:
Draft demand is not a good way to break this down. Corner is obviously a more valued position.

Earl makes FS the MOST valuable position on our D because of what he can do, that NO ONE else in the NFL can do. There isnt a safety in football that can play centerfield and be left back there alone like Earl can.

Corners like Sherm and Browner NEED safety help to be effective, problem is we bring Kam to the LOS regularly and he's not a deep cover type of SS. Earl covers BOTH safety poisitions in the pass game a large amount of the time in a system that requires MORE safety help than most and he makes that system dominant.


This has been proven wrong multiple times.


I don't agree with this either. Sherm can play on an island.

Think of it like this SoS. How many deep throws were attempted against the Seahawks? How many deep throws were completed against the Seahawks? Why is that so? One factor is that Earl Thomas has the speed to eliminate any potential threat down the field. He is also making better decisions. Another factor is the coverage of Richard Sherman.


Ask Roddy White if Sherm needs help over the top. Sherm can play on an island, but he's not Revis. He's fantastic on an island and can be pro bowl player doing it, but there's no doubt hes a product of the system to a certain extent as well and Earl in my opinion is the irreplaceable part in that system.

There's alot more elite CB's than safeties, nevermind the fact that Earl is the only safety in football with his skillset. The drop off from Sherm to Peanut Tillman, to Patrick Peterson, to Antonio Cromartie is alot less than the drop off from Earl to the next centerfield safety.


You just contradicted yourself. In your first post, you say he needs safety help and in the second you say hes a product of the system, but then you say he can play on an island at a pro bowl level. If he can do the latter, then I do not think he needs safety help over top. Laughing
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JustisM wrote:
Why'd they turn the lights on?
Big Ben is more effective in the dark.
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Tooki


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirensong wrote:
Tooki wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
sirensong wrote:
Draft demand is not a good way to break this down. Corner is obviously a more valued position.

Earl makes FS the MOST valuable position on our D because of what he can do, that NO ONE else in the NFL can do. There isnt a safety in football that can play centerfield and be left back there alone like Earl can.

Corners like Sherm and Browner NEED safety help to be effective, problem is we bring Kam to the LOS regularly and he's not a deep cover type of SS. Earl covers BOTH safety poisitions in the pass game a large amount of the time in a system that requires MORE safety help than most and he makes that system dominant.


This has been proven wrong multiple times.


I don't agree with this either. Sherm can play on an island.

Think of it like this SoS. How many deep throws were attempted against the Seahawks? How many deep throws were completed against the Seahawks? Why is that so? One factor is that Earl Thomas has the speed to eliminate any potential threat down the field. He is also making better decisions. Another factor is the coverage of Richard Sherman.


Ask Roddy White if Sherm needs help over the top. Sherm can play on an island, but he's not Revis. He's fantastic on an island and can be pro bowl player doing it, but there's no doubt hes a product of the system to a certain extent as well and Earl in my opinion is the irreplaceable part in that system.

There's alot more elite CB's than safeties, nevermind the fact that Earl is the only safety in football with his skillset. The drop off from Sherm to Peanut Tillman, to Patrick Peterson, to Antonio Cromartie is alot less than the drop off from Earl to the next centerfield safety.


ET got burned by AJ Green last year and Wes Welker had his way with him this year. It goes both ways.

All corners get burned occasionally. I mean, you can ask Teddy Ginn if Darelle Revis needs help over the top Laughing.
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