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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 9990
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question, Can Willie Smith play RG? big athletic dude, who was decent in Washington at RT and terrible with us, any chance he gets a look at RG? With him, Mady, Nix, Bergstrom, Foster and possibly Watson (although I doubt that) I'm sure one will rise to the top.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8644
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Keleth wrote:
I hate the paranoid Raider fans that think every bit of criticism of the Raiders is hate for the sake of hating.
Did you actually take any notice of what Williamsons article actually says.
You even quoted a bit that you seem to totally ignore...
"I hate putting a grade on the Raiders' offseason. This front office is doing an exceptional job of bargain basement shopping while dumping good players to get out from under a terrible situation that it inherited. But my grades are based on if the team improved on the field or not, and while I give this group credit for some very shrewd additions, the Raiders simply are not ready to compete right now."

I have to agree with that.
Can you actually show me per player or per position where we have improved talent wise over last year ?

I will start off by saying I believe once we win the haters will be gone.

Now to answer the question, Woodson is certainly better than Huff. In fact S depth has been upgraded as well with Young. Moving on to CB's we definatley have upgrades there. While some may not turn out to be good we have much greater depth thus make the unit better as hole even if one or two guys do not pan out. imo our LB's have gotten better mainly because of depth. I will call signing KB and losing Wheeler a wash for now, same goes for Roach/McClain swap and that might be conservative but nothing proven yet. DL I am torn on because Seymour and Kelly were traditionally good players but not last season. So losing them and adding the guys we added this season is a wash for me only taking last years performance into consideration. However losing Bryant takes the unit back as a whole so we got a little worse there imo.

On offense we added more WR's that can catch. Ford is possibly healthy now. Added more depth to the OL which was needed. Added a 3rd RB that can block, catch and run. Brought in TE's to compete. I am fairly confident at least one of them will replace Meyers production last season. We downgraded the starting QB position imo but increased the depth.

As for ST we upgraded as well. We lost Lechler which sucks however we had bigger issues with the coverage team and returning the ball. We have much better depth now so coverage should get better. Ford and Cribbs on the same unit, enough said.

So all in all we downgraded starting QB, DT, and P. But increased depth in those areas. We upgraded all other positions. imo of course.


I think you are being to favorable in some areas. There are a lot of unknowns - LB, CB, S, Dline, RG, QB, WR, TE

On paper, you can call some positions upgrades, but they can really go either way. I'm most confident in Flynn and Roach. I'm less confident in Jenkins and Porter.

Concerned over who takes the RG spot and can they be effective. It's too easy to say whomever wins the job is an 'upgrade' over Carlisle, but if that's the case, why couldn't anyone ever beat him out of a job?

I know too things about the NFL. You win with great QB play on O and when you can pressure the QB on D. I think Flynn will be a solid starter but he's not going to transcend the position and make everyone around him better IMO. And I can't find a single player on defense capable at consistently pressuring the QB. To me, that's what will leave this team in the heap as a below average 5-6 win team.

I agree but the question was player by player or position by position over the last year only. I agree on the LG position I missed that in my assesment. However RG is the same as last year so no difference. WR is at worst the same, especially considering I was one of the few people who wanted to keep DHB so him leaving should not make the unit worse in theory according to most people on this forum. I am 1000% more confident in this secondary that we have now than I am in the one we had last season.


RG was an eyesore last year and Brisel will be retaining the starting spot despite being a ZBS guy.

As for WR, the position was mediocre last season and unless one of these young guys really takes over, it's still an area of weakness. I can't see a consistent threat at WR. I surely don't see a guy who can be a red zone threat.

RT is still a concern until Watson comes into his own. RB goes as McFadden goes. Right now, there are 2 injury prone backs and a rookie. TE is a who's who of guys but I assume someone will do their part in that role.

I agree completley. Just saying in regards to the question we know we are know we are no worse and possibly are better.
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Cutler06


Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 10147
Location: Westminster
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great thread ch8878, I'm loving it....but here's the thing...you want respect...EARN IT. The Raiders organization has done nothing to deserve respect over the last decade. They drafted poorly, have coaching turnover after coaching turnover, fizzled out on free agents...why would ANYONE give them any love (other than from their fans) ?

I do like (?) McKenzie's direction, but you've got a long ways (2-3 years IMO) to go with it, which brings up questions Will the new Davis and fans be willing to wait that long ??? Will Allen get the same opportunity ? Can McK build the same way they did in GB ? Will the Packer-way implode the way the Patriot-way did ( not pretty, I speak from experience)

Well. as a Broncos fan, I for one don't care, I now have to deal with the obnoxious Chef fans...good luck and peace out !!
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Keleth


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 2860
Location: Restaurant at the end of the universe
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutler06 wrote:
Great thread ch8878, I'm loving it....but here's the thing...you want respect...EARN IT. The Raiders organization has done nothing to deserve respect over the last decade. They drafted poorly, have coaching turnover after coaching turnover, fizzled out on free agents...why would ANYONE give them any love (other than from their fans) ?


It's makes me sick to have to agree with a Donkeys fan
Shocked

TiberiusRising wrote:

I agree completley. Just saying in regards to the question we know we are know we are no worse and possibly are better.


So basically overall it's a wash on last year ?
What was our record last year ?

That is my problem,it's great to have optimism but just because someone is not optimistic does not mean they're hating.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8644
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keleth wrote:
Cutler06 wrote:
Great thread ch8878, I'm loving it....but here's the thing...you want respect...EARN IT. The Raiders organization has done nothing to deserve respect over the last decade. They drafted poorly, have coaching turnover after coaching turnover, fizzled out on free agents...why would ANYONE give them any love (other than from their fans) ?


It's makes me sick to have to agree with a Donkeys fan
Shocked

TiberiusRising wrote:

I agree completley. Just saying in regards to the question we know we are know we are no worse and possibly are better.


So basically overall it's a wash on last year ?
What was our record last year ?

That is my problem,it's great to have optimism but just because someone is not optimistic does not mean they're hating.

I think currently it is better than a wash. Just a wash at more positions than we would like.

But I will say that our defensive roster has improved so I don't think it is a wash there.

The offense is a wash because we should be able to run the ball in the new system however we step back at QB play. Personally I still think Palmer would have been better option.

ST roster is better.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21275
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
Question, Can Willie Smith play RG? big athletic dude, who was decent in Washington at RT and terrible with us, any chance he gets a look at RG? With him, Mady, Nix, Bergstrom, Foster and possibly Watson (although I doubt that) I'm sure one will rise to the top.


He wasnt really decent for Washington either.
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 2620
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keleth wrote:
I hate the paranoid Raider fans that think every bit of criticism of the Raiders is hate for the sake of hating.
Did you actually take any notice of what Williamsons article actually says.
You even quoted a bit that you seem to totally ignore...
"I hate putting a grade on the Raiders' offseason. This front office is doing an exceptional job of bargain basement shopping while dumping good players to get out from under a terrible situation that it inherited. But my grades are based on if the team improved on the field or not, and while I give this group credit for some very shrewd additions, the Raiders simply are not ready to compete right now."

I have to agree with that.
Can you actually show me per player or per position where we have improved talent wise over last year ?


Paranoid?

Why would I be paranoid?

I don't have a job on the line really doesn't have any affect on me personally.

Did you even read the thread?

They all say a little good, but the hate is so bad it kind of wipes the good away.
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutler06 wrote:
Great thread ch8878, I'm loving it....but here's the thing...you want respect...EARN IT. The Raiders organization has done nothing to deserve respect over the last decade. They drafted poorly, have coaching turnover after coaching turnover, fizzled out on free agents...why would ANYONE give them any love (other than from their fans) ?

I do like (?) McKenzie's direction, but you've got a long ways (2-3 years IMO) to go with it, which brings up questions Will the new Davis and fans be willing to wait that long ??? Will Allen get the same opportunity ? Can McK build the same way they did in GB ? Will the Packer-way implode the way the Patriot-way did ( not pretty, I speak from experience)

Well. as a Broncos fan, I for one don't care, I now have to deal with the obnoxious Chef fans...good luck and peace out !!


Yes they need to earn it, but why are they getting bashed the worse?

Did the Bills, Jets, Jags or Lions improve?

I personally don't think so they might have gotten worse.

What about the Chiefs have they done enough to move out of being the worse team in the league?

See the list goes on there is many teams with tons of questions not just the Raiders just the Raiders seem too be the whipping boy this offseason.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22215
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:


Yes they need to earn it, but why are they getting bashed the worse?

Did the Bills, Jets, Jags or Lions improve?

I personally don't think so they might have gotten worse.


The Jags and Jets are on the same level as Oakland. The Bills have some talent, but could easily be in that fold as well. The Lions have Stafford, Megtron, Suh, Fairley. They are talented and will be better than Oakland.


ch8878 wrote:

What about the Chiefs have they done enough to move out of being the worse team in the league?

See the list goes on there is many teams with tons of questions not just the Raiders just the Raiders seem too be the whipping boy this offseason.


KC has pass rushers, a #1 WR that Oakland lacks. I'll give them that.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5606
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
Cutler06 wrote:
Great thread ch8878, I'm loving it....but here's the thing...you want respect...EARN IT. The Raiders organization has done nothing to deserve respect over the last decade. They drafted poorly, have coaching turnover after coaching turnover, fizzled out on free agents...why would ANYONE give them any love (other than from their fans) ?

I do like (?) McKenzie's direction, but you've got a long ways (2-3 years IMO) to go with it, which brings up questions Will the new Davis and fans be willing to wait that long ??? Will Allen get the same opportunity ? Can McK build the same way they did in GB ? Will the Packer-way implode the way the Patriot-way did ( not pretty, I speak from experience)

Well. as a Broncos fan, I for one don't care, I now have to deal with the obnoxious Chef fans...good luck and peace out !!


Yes they need to earn it, but why are they getting bashed the worse?


Did the Bills, Jets, Jags or Lions improve?

I personally don't think so they might have gotten worse.

What about the Chiefs have they done enough to move out of being the worse team in the league?

See the list goes on there is many teams with tons of questions not just the Raiders just the Raiders seem too be the whipping boy this offseason.


Perhaps because the consensus is (among outsiders) that the Raiders took a massive step backwards at the most important position? /duck

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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5606
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000211517/article/oakland-raiders-quarterbacks-ripped-by-reporters

Quote:
It appeared the quarterbacks struggled equally, although the practice reports about Pryor were particularly negative. He had four passes batted down alone. Flynn said all the batted balls were "nerve-wracking."

The Raiders are professing patience publicly because they have to.

"I don't allow that to frustrate me," coach Dennis Allen said. "I understand where we're at in the season."

It sounds like what we heard from the Raiders' offseason practices one year ago.


The two things that really struck me. How can I buy in when even the staff is realistic about where the Raiders are at?
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Mancrush 2014: DE Clowney, WR Watkins, OT Robinson, LB Shazier, FS Brooks, TE ASJ, OG Jackson, WR Janis, OT Lucas, OT Tiny
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