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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14746
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
The problem ch8878 is your a giant homer and hate to hear the reality of the Raiders.

There is nothing there that isn't arguable or accurate. The Raiders roster is bad. They have some potential, but on paper as we are talking about, they are bad.

The Raiders are a bottom 3-5 talented team in the NFL. They are in full rebuild and are going to have trouble finding a lot of success this season.


The problem big_palooka your a huge troll or just a flat out Raider hater yourself I don't think I've heard you ever say anything positive about the Raiders since I've been here.

You do nothing, but put down the coaches, players, owner, GM the list goes on. I can't wait till the season, and they prove you wrong.


meh, bp even supported/was very positive about knapp. i think you have the wrong poster homie
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrashMan510 wrote:
who cares. let them say whatever they want, good or bad I really don't give a crap. I can't wait until the season starts.


+ 1, this isn't new to us or anything. We're used to it. We got through it then and we can get through it now.
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S&B Bleeder


Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 1226
Location: SoCal
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the bright side and for what it's worth I found this article via MSN.com. As much bashing as we get they proposed that we've done well drafting in the later rounds.
http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/oakland_raiders_under_rated_draft_success/13788992
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5643
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
The problem ch8878 is your a giant homer and hate to hear the reality of the Raiders.

There is nothing there that isn't arguable or accurate. The Raiders roster is bad. They have some potential, but on paper as we are talking about, they are bad.

The Raiders are a bottom 3-5 talented team in the NFL. They are in full rebuild and are going to have trouble finding a lot of success this season.


The problem big_palooka your a huge troll or just a flat out Raider hater yourself I don't think I've heard you ever say anything positive about the Raiders since I've been here.

You do nothing, but put down the coaches, players, owner, GM the list goes on. I can't wait till the season, and they prove you wrong.


How much positive has there been to talk about the last 10 years?

Imvho homer fans are not good fans because they don't force the organization to look at itself. Based on the product on the field you can't call BP a hater when the lack of production validates criticisms. Honest fans who voice their outrage in the media pressure organizations to get better. Sipping at the fountain of denial doesn't make things better.

Perhaps you should focus on the common ground rather the differences. The dysfunction is gone, the FO is being modernized and brighter days are coming as soon as 2014. Who is hating on that?
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 2620
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very positive post in what seems to be awhile love the title aswell

Bar is set so low Raiders have no where to go but up

Quote:
There has been a lot of chatter this off-season of people bashing the Raiders. Until proven differently this team will not be garnering much respect but at least its easy to exceed expectations when they are setting the bar so low. The critics are making it unlikely that this Raiders team will be as bad as they are projecting them to be simply by making it hard for any team to be as bad as they are projecting Oakland to be.


Read the rest of it link below

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2013/6/6/4404492/the-bar-is-set-so-low-that-the-oakland-raiders-have-no-where-to-go-but-up
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nickdawg


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Joined: 07 Jan 2006
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Location: The home of Yuengling.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
Very positive post in what seems to be awhile love the title aswell

Bar is set so low Raiders have no where to go but up

Quote:
There has been a lot of chatter this off-season of people bashing the Raiders. Until proven differently this team will not be garnering much respect but at least its easy to exceed expectations when they are setting the bar so low. The critics are making it unlikely that this Raiders team will be as bad as they are projecting them to be simply by making it hard for any team to be as bad as they are projecting Oakland to be.


Read the rest of it link below

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2013/6/6/4404492/the-bar-is-set-so-low-that-the-oakland-raiders-have-no-where-to-go-but-up


I do like the fact that article highlights a very powerful motivating factor for EVERY player:

the almighty dollar.
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Keleth


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 2862
Location: Restaurant at the end of the universe
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate the paranoid Raider fans that think every bit of criticism of the Raiders is hate for the sake of hating.
Did you actually take any notice of what Williamsons article actually says.
You even quoted a bit that you seem to totally ignore...
"I hate putting a grade on the Raiders' offseason. This front office is doing an exceptional job of bargain basement shopping while dumping good players to get out from under a terrible situation that it inherited. But my grades are based on if the team improved on the field or not, and while I give this group credit for some very shrewd additions, the Raiders simply are not ready to compete right now."

I have to agree with that.
Can you actually show me per player or per position where we have improved talent wise over last year ?
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8689
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keleth wrote:
I hate the paranoid Raider fans that think every bit of criticism of the Raiders is hate for the sake of hating.
Did you actually take any notice of what Williamsons article actually says.
You even quoted a bit that you seem to totally ignore...
"I hate putting a grade on the Raiders' offseason. This front office is doing an exceptional job of bargain basement shopping while dumping good players to get out from under a terrible situation that it inherited. But my grades are based on if the team improved on the field or not, and while I give this group credit for some very shrewd additions, the Raiders simply are not ready to compete right now."

I have to agree with that.
Can you actually show me per player or per position where we have improved talent wise over last year ?

I will start off by saying I believe once we win the haters will be gone.

Now to answer the question, Woodson is certainly better than Huff. In fact S depth has been upgraded as well with Young. Moving on to CB's we definatley have upgrades there. While some may not turn out to be good we have much greater depth thus make the unit better as hole even if one or two guys do not pan out. imo our LB's have gotten better mainly because of depth. I will call signing KB and losing Wheeler a wash for now, same goes for Roach/McClain swap and that might be conservative but nothing proven yet. DL I am torn on because Seymour and Kelly were traditionally good players but not last season. So losing them and adding the guys we added this season is a wash for me only taking last years performance into consideration. However losing Bryant takes the unit back as a whole so we got a little worse there imo.

On offense we added more WR's that can catch. Ford is possibly healthy now. Added more depth to the OL which was needed. Added a 3rd RB that can block, catch and run. Brought in TE's to compete. I am fairly confident at least one of them will replace Meyers production last season. We downgraded the starting QB position imo but increased the depth.

As for ST we upgraded as well. We lost Lechler which sucks however we had bigger issues with the coverage team and returning the ball. We have much better depth now so coverage should get better. Ford and Cribbs on the same unit, enough said.

So all in all we downgraded starting QB, DT, and P. But increased depth in those areas. We upgraded all other positions. imo of course.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5203
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woodson better than Huff - I stopped reading after that.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22240
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
Keleth wrote:
I hate the paranoid Raider fans that think every bit of criticism of the Raiders is hate for the sake of hating.
Did you actually take any notice of what Williamsons article actually says.
You even quoted a bit that you seem to totally ignore...
"I hate putting a grade on the Raiders' offseason. This front office is doing an exceptional job of bargain basement shopping while dumping good players to get out from under a terrible situation that it inherited. But my grades are based on if the team improved on the field or not, and while I give this group credit for some very shrewd additions, the Raiders simply are not ready to compete right now."

I have to agree with that.
Can you actually show me per player or per position where we have improved talent wise over last year ?

I will start off by saying I believe once we win the haters will be gone.

Now to answer the question, Woodson is certainly better than Huff. In fact S depth has been upgraded as well with Young. Moving on to CB's we definatley have upgrades there. While some may not turn out to be good we have much greater depth thus make the unit better as hole even if one or two guys do not pan out. imo our LB's have gotten better mainly because of depth. I will call signing KB and losing Wheeler a wash for now, same goes for Roach/McClain swap and that might be conservative but nothing proven yet. DL I am torn on because Seymour and Kelly were traditionally good players but not last season. So losing them and adding the guys we added this season is a wash for me only taking last years performance into consideration. However losing Bryant takes the unit back as a whole so we got a little worse there imo.

On offense we added more WR's that can catch. Ford is possibly healthy now. Added more depth to the OL which was needed. Added a 3rd RB that can block, catch and run. Brought in TE's to compete. I am fairly confident at least one of them will replace Meyers production last season. We downgraded the starting QB position imo but increased the depth.

As for ST we upgraded as well. We lost Lechler which sucks however we had bigger issues with the coverage team and returning the ball. We have much better depth now so coverage should get better. Ford and Cribbs on the same unit, enough said.

So all in all we downgraded starting QB, DT, and P. But increased depth in those areas. We upgraded all other positions. imo of course.


I think you are being to favorable in some areas. There are a lot of unknowns - LB, CB, S, Dline, RG, QB, WR, TE

On paper, you can call some positions upgrades, but they can really go either way. I'm most confident in Flynn and Roach. I'm less confident in Jenkins and Porter.

Concerned over who takes the RG spot and can they be effective. It's too easy to say whomever wins the job is an 'upgrade' over Carlisle, but if that's the case, why couldn't anyone ever beat him out of a job?

I know too things about the NFL. You win with great QB play on O and when you can pressure the QB on D. I think Flynn will be a solid starter but he's not going to transcend the position and make everyone around him better IMO. And I can't find a single player on defense capable at consistently pressuring the QB. To me, that's what will leave this team in the heap as a below average 5-6 win team.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8689
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Woodson better than Huff - I stopped reading after that.

Really have you watched both of these guys play the past few years?

Not understanding all the Huff love on here recently. I was Huff's biggest supporter on this forum and I still say Woodson is better and its not a small margin.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8689
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Keleth wrote:
I hate the paranoid Raider fans that think every bit of criticism of the Raiders is hate for the sake of hating.
Did you actually take any notice of what Williamsons article actually says.
You even quoted a bit that you seem to totally ignore...
"I hate putting a grade on the Raiders' offseason. This front office is doing an exceptional job of bargain basement shopping while dumping good players to get out from under a terrible situation that it inherited. But my grades are based on if the team improved on the field or not, and while I give this group credit for some very shrewd additions, the Raiders simply are not ready to compete right now."

I have to agree with that.
Can you actually show me per player or per position where we have improved talent wise over last year ?

I will start off by saying I believe once we win the haters will be gone.

Now to answer the question, Woodson is certainly better than Huff. In fact S depth has been upgraded as well with Young. Moving on to CB's we definatley have upgrades there. While some may not turn out to be good we have much greater depth thus make the unit better as hole even if one or two guys do not pan out. imo our LB's have gotten better mainly because of depth. I will call signing KB and losing Wheeler a wash for now, same goes for Roach/McClain swap and that might be conservative but nothing proven yet. DL I am torn on because Seymour and Kelly were traditionally good players but not last season. So losing them and adding the guys we added this season is a wash for me only taking last years performance into consideration. However losing Bryant takes the unit back as a whole so we got a little worse there imo.

On offense we added more WR's that can catch. Ford is possibly healthy now. Added more depth to the OL which was needed. Added a 3rd RB that can block, catch and run. Brought in TE's to compete. I am fairly confident at least one of them will replace Meyers production last season. We downgraded the starting QB position imo but increased the depth.

As for ST we upgraded as well. We lost Lechler which sucks however we had bigger issues with the coverage team and returning the ball. We have much better depth now so coverage should get better. Ford and Cribbs on the same unit, enough said.

So all in all we downgraded starting QB, DT, and P. But increased depth in those areas. We upgraded all other positions. imo of course.


I think you are being to favorable in some areas. There are a lot of unknowns - LB, CB, S, Dline, RG, QB, WR, TE

On paper, you can call some positions upgrades, but they can really go either way. I'm most confident in Flynn and Roach. I'm less confident in Jenkins and Porter.

Concerned over who takes the RG spot and can they be effective. It's too easy to say whomever wins the job is an 'upgrade' over Carlisle, but if that's the case, why couldn't anyone ever beat him out of a job?

I know too things about the NFL. You win with great QB play on O and when you can pressure the QB on D. I think Flynn will be a solid starter but he's not going to transcend the position and make everyone around him better IMO. And I can't find a single player on defense capable at consistently pressuring the QB. To me, that's what will leave this team in the heap as a below average 5-6 win team.

I agree but the question was player by player or position by position over the last year only. I agree on the LG position I missed that in my assesment. However RG is the same as last year so no difference. WR is at worst the same, especially considering I was one of the few people who wanted to keep DHB so him leaving should not make the unit worse in theory according to most people on this forum. I am 1000% more confident in this secondary that we have now than I am in the one we had last season.
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91jmay


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

C-Wood isn't better than Huff at this point. He may make more plays this year (which isn't hard as Huff isn't a play-maker at all) but he will have to play far less snaps and will be a bigger liability in coverage and in space.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22240
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Keleth wrote:
I hate the paranoid Raider fans that think every bit of criticism of the Raiders is hate for the sake of hating.
Did you actually take any notice of what Williamsons article actually says.
You even quoted a bit that you seem to totally ignore...
"I hate putting a grade on the Raiders' offseason. This front office is doing an exceptional job of bargain basement shopping while dumping good players to get out from under a terrible situation that it inherited. But my grades are based on if the team improved on the field or not, and while I give this group credit for some very shrewd additions, the Raiders simply are not ready to compete right now."

I have to agree with that.
Can you actually show me per player or per position where we have improved talent wise over last year ?

I will start off by saying I believe once we win the haters will be gone.

Now to answer the question, Woodson is certainly better than Huff. In fact S depth has been upgraded as well with Young. Moving on to CB's we definatley have upgrades there. While some may not turn out to be good we have much greater depth thus make the unit better as hole even if one or two guys do not pan out. imo our LB's have gotten better mainly because of depth. I will call signing KB and losing Wheeler a wash for now, same goes for Roach/McClain swap and that might be conservative but nothing proven yet. DL I am torn on because Seymour and Kelly were traditionally good players but not last season. So losing them and adding the guys we added this season is a wash for me only taking last years performance into consideration. However losing Bryant takes the unit back as a whole so we got a little worse there imo.

On offense we added more WR's that can catch. Ford is possibly healthy now. Added more depth to the OL which was needed. Added a 3rd RB that can block, catch and run. Brought in TE's to compete. I am fairly confident at least one of them will replace Meyers production last season. We downgraded the starting QB position imo but increased the depth.

As for ST we upgraded as well. We lost Lechler which sucks however we had bigger issues with the coverage team and returning the ball. We have much better depth now so coverage should get better. Ford and Cribbs on the same unit, enough said.

So all in all we downgraded starting QB, DT, and P. But increased depth in those areas. We upgraded all other positions. imo of course.


I think you are being to favorable in some areas. There are a lot of unknowns - LB, CB, S, Dline, RG, QB, WR, TE

On paper, you can call some positions upgrades, but they can really go either way. I'm most confident in Flynn and Roach. I'm less confident in Jenkins and Porter.

Concerned over who takes the RG spot and can they be effective. It's too easy to say whomever wins the job is an 'upgrade' over Carlisle, but if that's the case, why couldn't anyone ever beat him out of a job?

I know too things about the NFL. You win with great QB play on O and when you can pressure the QB on D. I think Flynn will be a solid starter but he's not going to transcend the position and make everyone around him better IMO. And I can't find a single player on defense capable at consistently pressuring the QB. To me, that's what will leave this team in the heap as a below average 5-6 win team.

I agree but the question was player by player or position by position over the last year only. I agree on the LG position I missed that in my assesment. However RG is the same as last year so no difference. WR is at worst the same, especially considering I was one of the few people who wanted to keep DHB so him leaving should not make the unit worse in theory according to most people on this forum. I am 1000% more confident in this secondary that we have now than I am in the one we had last season.


RG was an eyesore last year and Brisel will be retaining the starting spot despite being a ZBS guy.

As for WR, the position was mediocre last season and unless one of these young guys really takes over, it's still an area of weakness. I can't see a consistent threat at WR. I surely don't see a guy who can be a red zone threat.

RT is still a concern until Watson comes into his own. RB goes as McFadden goes. Right now, there are 2 injury prone backs and a rookie. TE is a who's who of guys but I assume someone will do their part in that role.
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 10013
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One guy with potential to be that redzone threat is Criner. He was a beast in the redzone in college and had a redzone TD and a nice 2 pt conversion jump ball catch last year. But like I said, potential. So yeah, still a weakness.
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