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Re-Ranking the roster: #1
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Hawks best player?
Richard Sherman
33%
 33%  [ 7 ]
Marshawn Lynch
9%
 9%  [ 2 ]
Earl Thomas
33%
 33%  [ 7 ]
Russell Okung
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Max Unger
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Russell Wilson
14%
 14%  [ 3 ]
Percy Harvin
9%
 9%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 21

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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And Sherman is not Neon Deion. I think we can both agree neither of these guys are the best at their position in the last 20 years. So lets not compare them to players that were.


Elite- A group of people considered to be the best in a particular society or category, esp. because of their power, talent, or wealth.

By that definition, Earl and Weddle are elite. They are the cream of the crop at their position.
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I'll put the 2013 Seahawks one spot over the 2008 Steelers on the Top 10
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SoS


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never compared Sherman to anyone. For someone who's apparently over the honeymoon phase with Earl Thomas, you sure are defensive.

Also a really bland way of looking at "elite" and something I'd expect more from you to be honest. Are there any elite fullbacks right now? There are guys that are clearly very good in this league, but none of them are playing elite football right now. Should we designate the best FB in the league as "elite" simply because he's the best at his position? Who are the "elite" strong safeties in today's league?

Neither Earl nor Weddle are elite football players. They do not consistently play elite level football. Elite football players are not among the league leaders in missed tackles at their position, sorry. Richard Sherman had an ELITE 2012 season. It was a historically great season at the CB position. Sherman is a hell of a lot closer to being the best CB of the past 20 years than Earl is being the best FS in that time (not to say either player is close).

Thems the facts. You have yet to give me anything concrete about why Earl is the better player. I've pointed out missed tackles. I've pointed out lack of size. I've pointed out lack of ball skills.

What have you pointed out? And I really hope the "Earl helps Sherman a lot on interceptions" wasn't the best you had.
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hawksman81


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boy oh boy Earl has gotten overrated on these boards.

Just this season everyone was complaining about him and how he needs to step his game up, claiming that he was overrated.

Now he has some good playoff games and hes all the sudden the best player on the team? The offseason does some crazy stuff to the fans.
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SoS


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hawksman81 wrote:
Boy oh boy Earl has gotten overrated on these boards.

Just this season everyone was complaining about him and how he needs to step his game up, claiming that he was overrated.

Now he has some good playoff games and hes all the sudden the best player on the team? The offseason does some crazy stuff to the fans.


Thank you. I feel like some people want him to be this elite player so bad that they just try to convince themselves that he is already there.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Earl has great ball skills. He just has inconsistent hands. Those are two very different things. I don't see size as an issue. The miss tackles are great, but most of them come from the fact that he closes on the ball carrier so fast and he's just worried about making contact. His missed tackles lead to a lot of gang tackles much closer to the LOS then they would've been made otherwise. It's not ideal, but he's still making plays even with a lot of his missed tackles.

You want me to knit pick at Sherman? Fine. He's a good tackler but not elite by any means. The hit against Harvin was the hardest hit he's ever made by a good bit. He may be great at getting the pick, but he can't do anything special with it afterwards. Every good return he's ever had he just had to run straight. He purely is and outside CB. Most elite CB's are much better at covering the slot. He lacks ideal or even status quo quickness. He does a fantastic job of using the sidelines to his advantage but gets in trouble when the guy gets to the middle of the field. He's a fantastic player, but he's far from without fault.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'll put the 2013 Seahawks one spot over the 2008 Steelers on the Top 10
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hawksman81 wrote:
Boy oh boy Earl has gotten overrated on these boards.

Just this season everyone was complaining about him and how he needs to step his game up, claiming that he was overrated.

Now he has some good playoff games and hes all the sudden the best player on the team? The offseason does some crazy stuff to the fans.
I never had a different view then I have now. Everyone is a strong and incorrect word.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'll put the 2013 Seahawks one spot over the 2008 Steelers on the Top 10
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Plush


Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 1214
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
Boy oh boy Earl has gotten overrated on these boards.

Just this season everyone was complaining about him and how he needs to step his game up, claiming that he was overrated.

Now he has some good playoff games and hes all the sudden the best player on the team? The offseason does some crazy stuff to the fans.


Thank you. I feel like some people want him to be this elite player so bad that they just try to convince themselves that he is already there.


Didn't you just get done using a one game sample to pimp a player. Come on dude

"one bills game does crazy things to people"
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SoS


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
Earl has great ball skills. He just has inconsistent hands. Those are two very different things. I don't see size as an issue. The miss tackles are great, but most of them come from the fact that he closes on the ball carrier so fast and he's just worried about making contact. His missed tackles lead to a lot of gang tackles much closer to the LOS then they would've been made otherwise. It's not ideal, but he's still making plays even with a lot of his missed tackles.

You want me to knit pick at Sherman? Fine. He's a good tackler but not elite by any means. The hit against Harvin was the hardest hit he's ever made by a good bit. He may be great at getting the pick, but he can't do anything special with it afterwards. Every good return he's ever had he just had to run straight. He purely is and outside CB. Most elite CB's are much better at covering the slot. He lacks ideal or even status quo quickness. He does a fantastic job of using the sidelines to his advantage but gets in trouble when the guy gets to the middle of the field. He's a fantastic player, but he's far from without fault.


I don't even know if I should dignify this with a response Laughing It's gotten to the point of seriously reaching.
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If I am a starting QB and my back up is Kellen Clemens..i would only have one question...."Turn up for what?"
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SoS


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plush wrote:
SoS wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
Boy oh boy Earl has gotten overrated on these boards.

Just this season everyone was complaining about him and how he needs to step his game up, claiming that he was overrated.

Now he has some good playoff games and hes all the sudden the best player on the team? The offseason does some crazy stuff to the fans.


Thank you. I feel like some people want him to be this elite player so bad that they just try to convince themselves that he is already there.


Didn't you just get done using a one game sample to pimp a player. Come on dude

"one bills game does crazy things to people"


Not even relatively similar topics Laughing

I'm not trying to convince myself or anyone else for that matter that Maxwell is elite. I said he's had one elite showing against the Bills in his only opportunity, but that certainly doesn't make him elite nor does it lead me to believe that he will be elite.

I'd expand further, but I actually have no idea what connection you were trying to draw from your post outside of bring up an unrelated matter that you disagree with me on.
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If I am a starting QB and my back up is Kellen Clemens..i would only have one question...."Turn up for what?"
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Plush


Joined: 24 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
Plush wrote:
SoS wrote:
hawksman81 wrote:
Boy oh boy Earl has gotten overrated on these boards.

Just this season everyone was complaining about him and how he needs to step his game up, claiming that he was overrated.

Now he has some good playoff games and hes all the sudden the best player on the team? The offseason does some crazy stuff to the fans.


Thank you. I feel like some people want him to be this elite player so bad that they just try to convince themselves that he is already there.


Didn't you just get done using a one game sample to pimp a player. Come on dude

"one bills game does crazy things to people"


Not even relatively similar topics Laughing

I'm not trying to convince myself or anyone else for that matter that Maxwell is elite. I said he's had one elite showing against the Bills in his only opportunity, but that certainly doesn't make him elite nor does it lead me to believe that he will be elite.

I'd expand further, but I actually have no idea what connection you were trying to draw from your post outside of bring up an unrelated matter that you disagree with me on.


Sure thing guy Laughing
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Tooki


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
Earl has great ball skills. He just has inconsistent hands. Those are two very different things. I don't see size as an issue. The miss tackles are great, but most of them come from the fact that he closes on the ball carrier so fast and he's just worried about making contact. His missed tackles lead to a lot of gang tackles much closer to the LOS then they would've been made otherwise. It's not ideal, but he's still making plays even with a lot of his missed tackles.

You want me to knit pick at Sherman? Fine. He's a good tackler but not elite by any means. The hit against Harvin was the hardest hit he's ever made by a good bit. He may be great at getting the pick, but he can't do anything special with it afterwards. Every good return he's ever had he just had to run straight. He purely is and outside CB. Most elite CB's are much better at covering the slot. He lacks ideal or even status quo quickness. He does a fantastic job of using the sidelines to his advantage but gets in trouble when the guy gets to the middle of the field. He's a fantastic player, but he's far from without fault.


I don't even know if I should dignify this with a response Laughing It's gotten to the point of seriously reaching.


He is right though. Sherm definitely lacks short-range quickness for an elite corner and he has minimal returning ability. He can also get worked by quicker players with great routes.

He's still a bloody good corner and perfect for the Seahawks scheme.

I chose ET for #1 partly because of his role on the team. Besides Big Red, he is the key cog in the back-7.
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SoS


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tooki wrote:
SoS wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
Earl has great ball skills. He just has inconsistent hands. Those are two very different things. I don't see size as an issue. The miss tackles are great, but most of them come from the fact that he closes on the ball carrier so fast and he's just worried about making contact. His missed tackles lead to a lot of gang tackles much closer to the LOS then they would've been made otherwise. It's not ideal, but he's still making plays even with a lot of his missed tackles.

You want me to knit pick at Sherman? Fine. He's a good tackler but not elite by any means. The hit against Harvin was the hardest hit he's ever made by a good bit. He may be great at getting the pick, but he can't do anything special with it afterwards. Every good return he's ever had he just had to run straight. He purely is and outside CB. Most elite CB's are much better at covering the slot. He lacks ideal or even status quo quickness. He does a fantastic job of using the sidelines to his advantage but gets in trouble when the guy gets to the middle of the field. He's a fantastic player, but he's far from without fault.


I don't even know if I should dignify this with a response Laughing It's gotten to the point of seriously reaching.


He is right though. Sherm definitely lacks short-range quickness for an elite corner and he has minimal returning ability. He can also get worked by quicker players with great routes.

He's still a bloody good corner and perfect for the Seahawks scheme.

I chose ET for #1 partly because of his role on the team. Besides Big Red, he is the key cog in the back-7.


I'll take Sherm's "flaws" over Earl's, that's for sure. What you're saying about Sherman is pretty nickel and dime material. His return abilities may not be elite or even great, but he was only in a position to return 4 of his 8 interceptions and took 1 of those back for a TD. I don't think 25% is that bad, especially when you consider he actually got good yardage on the other 3 picks. I really wouldn't call that a flaw, I'd call it something he's average at. Earl is noticeably below average at all of the things I listed.

I'll give you the quick-twitch complaint. It limits him and doesn't allow him to play in the slot, but he's so good on the outside that I don't think it's a big deal. The best players play on the outside and the first play that comes to mind with Sherman in the slot is the interception he made against Tom Brady. Once again, I don't know if I'd say he's bad in the slot, he's just very average. But even if we consider that a flaw, it's really his only one and I don't think that makes him a lesser player than Earl Thomas who has multiple.

ET's role on the team is really the only reason I can see someone voting him. He does have the responsibility to get guys lined up and I respect that aspect of his game. I just think Sherman is noticeably better at what he does and he sets a tone.
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