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How good will we be if McFadden gets 1500 yards, Flynn 30tds
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BlackPrestige92


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
You guys are arguing over semantics. . . . .

Bagga go home, you're drunk
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justwinbaby81


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
If McFadden would ever stay healthy for 16 games (and he is more likely than ever due to his contract year) in a PBS he should get around 1500 yards.


I wasn't aware that playing in a contract year has an impact on whether or not you get injured... Eh?

common sense says no it doesnt. however I get what he is saying. For some reason player in contract years usually stay healthy and usually play well.

Although in McFadden's case I am pretty sure most of his injuries could not be played through. Just my imo though.


I can understand saying players may be more inclined to tough it out and play through some injuries in a contract year, but he said "stay healthy", which has nothing to do with money or contracts.


Surprised I have to explain this, but historically players somehow muster up the strength to play at a high level through any circumstances (including injury) when their next contract depends on it. Once they tough it out and get their contract they can go back to sitting out through injury, major or minor. It absolutely has to do with money. You can be able to play through injuries when livelyhood counts on it. A sprained foot feels just fine when millions depend on it.


Surprised I have to explain this even though I already wrote it above: you did not say "if McFadden can tough it out" or "if he can play through injuries", you said "if McFadden can stay healthy". Those are two different things.


Well I'm not talking about catching STDs or getting a few cavities here Dr Zoom. In football terms health means getting on the field on gameday without hampering success.


No it does not. Even a small injury, when played through, will still most likely "hamper" a player's success in some way. A strained hammy will limit your speed, turf toe will limit your running and stop-and-go ability, concussions can effect your mind, broken or sprained fingers will limit your catching ability, a hurt shoulder affects throwing motion... see where this is going? If you consider Healthy to mean not hampered, then nobody is healthy unless they have no injuries. Again, playing through injury is not the same as staying healthy. Youcan control playing through injury to a certain extent, but you have almost no control over whether or not you get injured.


You know AP played with a sports hernia last year right? Looked fine to me. Go ahead and argue that he was hampered. You can play through it at a high level or you can ride the pine. Ya know who plays through it? Guys like AP and guys who are in a contract year. Being on an injury report doesn't have anything to do with health. If you're healthy enough to play at a high level, you're healthy--injured or not.

If you haven't realized guys tend to be OK when it comes to injuries in a contract year then you just aren't paying attention. There's something to that........


Dude, I said an injury will hamper a player in some way. I never said it would turn a guy like AP into an Average Joe. Yes, AP looked fine, but I would be willing to bet that if he did not have a hernia he would have been even better... in other words, he was hampered. Hampered does not mean you suck, it means you are unable to perform at the highest level you are capable of. Look who you are talking about- AP had like the quickest, most successful recovery from ACL surgery anyone has ever had. He is a freak. AP at 80% is still better than most RBs that have ever played. Most guys can't play though hernias and perform near their peak ability like that.

Again, I never denied that guys in contract years play through injuries, all I said is that money has no bearing on HEALTH.

justwinbaby81 wrote:
If you're healthy enough to play at a high level, you're healthy--injured or not.


If you want to make up your own definitions then that is fine I guess, but if you are injured then you are not at full strength. Last year you couldnt read an article about Calvin Johnson without hearing something about him not being healthy. He still had a supreme year, but that doesnt mean he was healthy. It means the dude is a monster who is just that good even when he isnt 100%. The league is not filled with AP's and Megatrons, most good players will not be able to perform that well if they have a bunch of injuries. There is a reason those are pretty much the only two names you hear people raving about when it comes to performing that well while having serious injuries- because they are the absolute best at their positions and are pretty much the only guys who can play better than anyone even when injured. AP and Calvin would have been even better had they not been injured, meaning they were limited. Sure, their "limited" is still better than most players at 100%, but it doesnt change the fact that their conditions hampered them and they would have been even better if they were healthy.

Now that this discussion has gotten ridiculously off track, I will reiterate my original point: McFadden's contract situation will not keep him healthy. It may push him to play through injuries, but it will not prevent him from getting injured, nor will it make him healthier.


Good lord you are petty. You're right, if a guy gets his leg ripped off it won't grow back in a contract year. And AP would have gotten at least one more yard without a sports hernia. Happy?
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
You guys are arguing over semantics. . . . .


It began as an argument about a misconception, but old boy came back trying to redefine the word healthy so it got carried away. People think McFadden would have played 16 games every year had he been up for a new contract. The type of Linsfranc fracture McFadden had is season-ending no matter who you are. Sure, his turf toe and hamstring injuries could be played through, but how effective would a RB be if he cannot run near full speed or stop-and-go or change directions? Why would a coach play a RB who cant do those things, even if they are willing to play? I'm not denying guys play through injuries in a contract year, but there is a limit. There are some injuries you cannot play through either due to the severity, or how much it affects your level of play. Anyway, there is my rant.
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Burgesskills


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McFadden runs too upright and with those toothpick legs he shouldn't. He has one of the best stiff arms in the game and is fast, but he is always hurt. He'll start of blazing, around 700 yards and 6 TD's after five games, then he'll miss a game or two because of toe and then a hamstring, then a quad...probably have a shoulder injury. He'll play ten games rush for 900 and 8 TD's.

Hopefully he finds a way to stay healthy and prove me wrong. Then he'll cash in and continue his injury riddled career.
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
If McFadden would ever stay healthy for 16 games (and he is more likely than ever due to his contract year) in a PBS he should get around 1500 yards.


I wasn't aware that playing in a contract year has an impact on whether or not you get injured... Eh?

common sense says no it doesnt. however I get what he is saying. For some reason player in contract years usually stay healthy and usually play well.

Although in McFadden's case I am pretty sure most of his injuries could not be played through. Just my imo though.


I can understand saying players may be more inclined to tough it out and play through some injuries in a contract year, but he said "stay healthy", which has nothing to do with money or contracts.


Surprised I have to explain this, but historically players somehow muster up the strength to play at a high level through any circumstances (including injury) when their next contract depends on it. Once they tough it out and get their contract they can go back to sitting out through injury, major or minor. It absolutely has to do with money. You can be able to play through injuries when livelyhood counts on it. A sprained foot feels just fine when millions depend on it.


Surprised I have to explain this even though I already wrote it above: you did not say "if McFadden can tough it out" or "if he can play through injuries", you said "if McFadden can stay healthy". Those are two different things.


Well I'm not talking about catching STDs or getting a few cavities here Dr Zoom. In football terms health means getting on the field on gameday without hampering success.


No it does not. Even a small injury, when played through, will still most likely "hamper" a player's success in some way. A strained hammy will limit your speed, turf toe will limit your running and stop-and-go ability, concussions can effect your mind, broken or sprained fingers will limit your catching ability, a hurt shoulder affects throwing motion... see where this is going? If you consider Healthy to mean not hampered, then nobody is healthy unless they have no injuries. Again, playing through injury is not the same as staying healthy. Youcan control playing through injury to a certain extent, but you have almost no control over whether or not you get injured.


You know AP played with a sports hernia last year right? Looked fine to me. Go ahead and argue that he was hampered. You can play through it at a high level or you can ride the pine. Ya know who plays through it? Guys like AP and guys who are in a contract year. Being on an injury report doesn't have anything to do with health. If you're healthy enough to play at a high level, you're healthy--injured or not.

If you haven't realized guys tend to be OK when it comes to injuries in a contract year then you just aren't paying attention. There's something to that........


Dude, I said an injury will hamper a player in some way. I never said it would turn a guy like AP into an Average Joe. Yes, AP looked fine, but I would be willing to bet that if he did not have a hernia he would have been even better... in other words, he was hampered. Hampered does not mean you suck, it means you are unable to perform at the highest level you are capable of. Look who you are talking about- AP had like the quickest, most successful recovery from ACL surgery anyone has ever had. He is a freak. AP at 80% is still better than most RBs that have ever played. Most guys can't play though hernias and perform near their peak ability like that.

Again, I never denied that guys in contract years play through injuries, all I said is that money has no bearing on HEALTH.

justwinbaby81 wrote:
If you're healthy enough to play at a high level, you're healthy--injured or not.


If you want to make up your own definitions then that is fine I guess, but if you are injured then you are not at full strength. Last year you couldnt read an article about Calvin Johnson without hearing something about him not being healthy. He still had a supreme year, but that doesnt mean he was healthy. It means the dude is a monster who is just that good even when he isnt 100%. The league is not filled with AP's and Megatrons, most good players will not be able to perform that well if they have a bunch of injuries. There is a reason those are pretty much the only two names you hear people raving about when it comes to performing that well while having serious injuries- because they are the absolute best at their positions and are pretty much the only guys who can play better than anyone even when injured. AP and Calvin would have been even better had they not been injured, meaning they were limited. Sure, their "limited" is still better than most players at 100%, but it doesnt change the fact that their conditions hampered them and they would have been even better if they were healthy.

Now that this discussion has gotten ridiculously off track, I will reiterate my original point: McFadden's contract situation will not keep him healthy. It may push him to play through injuries, but it will not prevent him from getting injured, nor will it make him healthier.


Good lord you are petty. You're right, if a guy gets his leg ripped off it won't grow back in a contract year. And AP would have gotten at least one more yard without a sports hernia. Happy?


Very happy. This is all I wanted, and now I feel validated and I can go on with my life knowing I was right about an online football forum argument.
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justwinbaby81


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
If McFadden would ever stay healthy for 16 games (and he is more likely than ever due to his contract year) in a PBS he should get around 1500 yards.


I wasn't aware that playing in a contract year has an impact on whether or not you get injured... Eh?

common sense says no it doesnt. however I get what he is saying. For some reason player in contract years usually stay healthy and usually play well.

Although in McFadden's case I am pretty sure most of his injuries could not be played through. Just my imo though.


I can understand saying players may be more inclined to tough it out and play through some injuries in a contract year, but he said "stay healthy", which has nothing to do with money or contracts.


Surprised I have to explain this, but historically players somehow muster up the strength to play at a high level through any circumstances (including injury) when their next contract depends on it. Once they tough it out and get their contract they can go back to sitting out through injury, major or minor. It absolutely has to do with money. You can be able to play through injuries when livelyhood counts on it. A sprained foot feels just fine when millions depend on it.


Surprised I have to explain this even though I already wrote it above: you did not say "if McFadden can tough it out" or "if he can play through injuries", you said "if McFadden can stay healthy". Those are two different things.


Well I'm not talking about catching STDs or getting a few cavities here Dr Zoom. In football terms health means getting on the field on gameday without hampering success.


No it does not. Even a small injury, when played through, will still most likely "hamper" a player's success in some way. A strained hammy will limit your speed, turf toe will limit your running and stop-and-go ability, concussions can effect your mind, broken or sprained fingers will limit your catching ability, a hurt shoulder affects throwing motion... see where this is going? If you consider Healthy to mean not hampered, then nobody is healthy unless they have no injuries. Again, playing through injury is not the same as staying healthy. Youcan control playing through injury to a certain extent, but you have almost no control over whether or not you get injured.


You know AP played with a sports hernia last year right? Looked fine to me. Go ahead and argue that he was hampered. You can play through it at a high level or you can ride the pine. Ya know who plays through it? Guys like AP and guys who are in a contract year. Being on an injury report doesn't have anything to do with health. If you're healthy enough to play at a high level, you're healthy--injured or not.

If you haven't realized guys tend to be OK when it comes to injuries in a contract year then you just aren't paying attention. There's something to that........


Dude, I said an injury will hamper a player in some way. I never said it would turn a guy like AP into an Average Joe. Yes, AP looked fine, but I would be willing to bet that if he did not have a hernia he would have been even better... in other words, he was hampered. Hampered does not mean you suck, it means you are unable to perform at the highest level you are capable of. Look who you are talking about- AP had like the quickest, most successful recovery from ACL surgery anyone has ever had. He is a freak. AP at 80% is still better than most RBs that have ever played. Most guys can't play though hernias and perform near their peak ability like that.

Again, I never denied that guys in contract years play through injuries, all I said is that money has no bearing on HEALTH.

justwinbaby81 wrote:
If you're healthy enough to play at a high level, you're healthy--injured or not.


If you want to make up your own definitions then that is fine I guess, but if you are injured then you are not at full strength. Last year you couldnt read an article about Calvin Johnson without hearing something about him not being healthy. He still had a supreme year, but that doesnt mean he was healthy. It means the dude is a monster who is just that good even when he isnt 100%. The league is not filled with AP's and Megatrons, most good players will not be able to perform that well if they have a bunch of injuries. There is a reason those are pretty much the only two names you hear people raving about when it comes to performing that well while having serious injuries- because they are the absolute best at their positions and are pretty much the only guys who can play better than anyone even when injured. AP and Calvin would have been even better had they not been injured, meaning they were limited. Sure, their "limited" is still better than most players at 100%, but it doesnt change the fact that their conditions hampered them and they would have been even better if they were healthy.

Now that this discussion has gotten ridiculously off track, I will reiterate my original point: McFadden's contract situation will not keep him healthy. It may push him to play through injuries, but it will not prevent him from getting injured, nor will it make him healthier.


Good lord you are petty. You're right, if a guy gets his leg ripped off it won't grow back in a contract year. And AP would have gotten at least one more yard without a sports hernia. Happy?


Very happy. This is all I wanted, and now I feel validated and I can go on with my life knowing I was right about an online football forum argument.


Look at the 5 paragraph essay you wrote over an afterthought on my original post...you clearly needed to win that argument Laughing
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
If McFadden would ever stay healthy for 16 games (and he is more likely than ever due to his contract year) in a PBS he should get around 1500 yards.


I wasn't aware that playing in a contract year has an impact on whether or not you get injured... Eh?

common sense says no it doesnt. however I get what he is saying. For some reason player in contract years usually stay healthy and usually play well.

Although in McFadden's case I am pretty sure most of his injuries could not be played through. Just my imo though.


I can understand saying players may be more inclined to tough it out and play through some injuries in a contract year, but he said "stay healthy", which has nothing to do with money or contracts.


Surprised I have to explain this, but historically players somehow muster up the strength to play at a high level through any circumstances (including injury) when their next contract depends on it. Once they tough it out and get their contract they can go back to sitting out through injury, major or minor. It absolutely has to do with money. You can be able to play through injuries when livelyhood counts on it. A sprained foot feels just fine when millions depend on it.


Surprised I have to explain this even though I already wrote it above: you did not say "if McFadden can tough it out" or "if he can play through injuries", you said "if McFadden can stay healthy". Those are two different things.


Well I'm not talking about catching STDs or getting a few cavities here Dr Zoom. In football terms health means getting on the field on gameday without hampering success.


No it does not. Even a small injury, when played through, will still most likely "hamper" a player's success in some way. A strained hammy will limit your speed, turf toe will limit your running and stop-and-go ability, concussions can effect your mind, broken or sprained fingers will limit your catching ability, a hurt shoulder affects throwing motion... see where this is going? If you consider Healthy to mean not hampered, then nobody is healthy unless they have no injuries. Again, playing through injury is not the same as staying healthy. Youcan control playing through injury to a certain extent, but you have almost no control over whether or not you get injured.


You know AP played with a sports hernia last year right? Looked fine to me. Go ahead and argue that he was hampered. You can play through it at a high level or you can ride the pine. Ya know who plays through it? Guys like AP and guys who are in a contract year. Being on an injury report doesn't have anything to do with health. If you're healthy enough to play at a high level, you're healthy--injured or not.

If you haven't realized guys tend to be OK when it comes to injuries in a contract year then you just aren't paying attention. There's something to that........


Dude, I said an injury will hamper a player in some way. I never said it would turn a guy like AP into an Average Joe. Yes, AP looked fine, but I would be willing to bet that if he did not have a hernia he would have been even better... in other words, he was hampered. Hampered does not mean you suck, it means you are unable to perform at the highest level you are capable of. Look who you are talking about- AP had like the quickest, most successful recovery from ACL surgery anyone has ever had. He is a freak. AP at 80% is still better than most RBs that have ever played. Most guys can't play though hernias and perform near their peak ability like that.

Again, I never denied that guys in contract years play through injuries, all I said is that money has no bearing on HEALTH.

justwinbaby81 wrote:
If you're healthy enough to play at a high level, you're healthy--injured or not.


If you want to make up your own definitions then that is fine I guess, but if you are injured then you are not at full strength. Last year you couldnt read an article about Calvin Johnson without hearing something about him not being healthy. He still had a supreme year, but that doesnt mean he was healthy. It means the dude is a monster who is just that good even when he isnt 100%. The league is not filled with AP's and Megatrons, most good players will not be able to perform that well if they have a bunch of injuries. There is a reason those are pretty much the only two names you hear people raving about when it comes to performing that well while having serious injuries- because they are the absolute best at their positions and are pretty much the only guys who can play better than anyone even when injured. AP and Calvin would have been even better had they not been injured, meaning they were limited. Sure, their "limited" is still better than most players at 100%, but it doesnt change the fact that their conditions hampered them and they would have been even better if they were healthy.

Now that this discussion has gotten ridiculously off track, I will reiterate my original point: McFadden's contract situation will not keep him healthy. It may push him to play through injuries, but it will not prevent him from getting injured, nor will it make him healthier.


Good lord you are petty. You're right, if a guy gets his leg ripped off it won't grow back in a contract year. And AP would have gotten at least one more yard without a sports hernia. Happy?


Very happy. This is all I wanted, and now I feel validated and I can go on with my life knowing I was right about an online football forum argument.


Look at the 5 paragraph essay you wrote over an afterthought on my original post...you clearly needed to win that argument Laughing


Yep, and I did so I'm good now. Thanks!
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justwinbaby81


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
McFadden runs too upright and with those toothpick legs he shouldn't. He has one of the best stiff arms in the game and is fast, but he is always hurt. He'll start of blazing, around 700 yards and 6 TD's after five games, then he'll miss a game or two because of toe and then a hamstring, then a quad...probably have a shoulder injury. He'll play ten games rush for 900 and 8 TD's.

Hopefully he finds a way to stay healthy and prove me wrong. Then he'll cash in and continue his injury riddled career.


Well like I was saying from the start...if you think a tweaked hamstring or toe injury is stopping him this year, it is not. McFadden is in for a huge year going back to the PBS because this is his only chance at another big contract. He probably won't get 1500 yards like the hypothetical says, but he will get 1100 or so I bet.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackPrestige92 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
You guys are arguing over semantics. . . . .

Bagga go home, you're drunk


I stay drunk, bro. Have you never been totally committed to anything?

Since we are OT. Anyone remember the name of the Denver runningback whose promising NFL career was cut short because he refused to take pain-killers to stay on the field. Also, isn't there an unsubstantiated rumor that Ford doesn't to play unless he's 100%?
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Big Rob


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

id say tone it down and ask what if DMC rushes for 1200 and Flynn throws for 20 TD's...
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just hope McFadden can be more effective than I would be if I were out there. Last year, it is debatable... and that's sad.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
I just hope McFadden can be more effective than I would be if I were out there. Last year, it is debatable... and that's sad.


Well, that happens when your OC has no knowledge of how to call plays. And when your OL isn't well coached. And when your RB doesn't fit the scheme you're running (which is still poorly coached).

It wasn't pretty watching DMC run last year, but I expect him to bounce back this year. Question is if we end up keeping him or not. If we do, we have to put a ton of incentives and stuff into his contract. I know its unlikely, but I do also wonder what will become of Murray and if he can eventually be our lead back. Or at least a back we can pair another with.
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Tamby


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't expect McFadden to play more than 10 games this year, however, I'll take a talented, productive Mcfadden for 10 games instead of an average back for 16. We can rely on Mcfadden as long as we have the appropriate depth behind him. Hopefully Murray can develop and fill this role.

I see us having a strong running game this year, top 10 behind McFadden, but I think we'll have a very weak passing game. Not Flynn's fault, but rather the complete lack of weapons we're giving him. A lot of this depends on Denarius Moore having a bounceback year and one of our TE's stepping up to fill the void.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
You guys are arguing over semantics. . . . .


It began as an argument about a misconception, but old boy came back trying to redefine the word healthy so it got carried away. People think McFadden would have played 16 games every year had he been up for a new contract. The type of Linsfranc fracture McFadden had is season-ending no matter who you are. Sure, his turf toe and hamstring injuries could be played through, but how effective would a RB be if he cannot run near full speed or stop-and-go or change directions? Why would a coach play a RB who cant do those things, even if they are willing to play? I'm not denying guys play through injuries in a contract year, but there is a limit. There are some injuries you cannot play through either due to the severity, or how much it affects your level of play. Anyway, there is my rant.


Laughing not dmac the king of strait line running
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
I just hope McFadden can be more effective than I would be if I were out there. Last year, it is debatable... and that's sad.


Well, that happens when your OC has no knowledge of how to call plays. And when your OL isn't well coached. And when your RB doesn't fit the scheme you're running (which is still poorly coached).

It wasn't pretty watching DMC run last year, but I expect him to bounce back this year. Question is if we end up keeping him or not. If we do, we have to put a ton of incentives and stuff into his contract. I know its unlikely, but I do also wonder what will become of Murray and if he can eventually be our lead back. Or at least a back we can pair another with.


I hope he bounces back b/c I honesty think this is his last year here. You right about his contract though. RBs are a dime a dozen though. McFadden will demand a lot of money w/ very limited production and incredible inconsistency. I just can't see him in a Raider uniform beyond this season. I'm OK w/ that too. Was never too big of a fan of the pick anyway I just hoped for the best. I'm anxious to see Murray in action.
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