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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 2620
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
ch8878 wrote:

So Denver will sweep the division with a 40 year old QB with neck and shoulder issues, and KC is better how ?

Raiders will be much better you can count on it. Wink


After watching Manning last year, you really want make that argument? The guy was electric all season. He's still and elite QB in the NFL. And they had no problem sweeping the Raiders a year ago w/ that same Manning.

KC has talent all over the field. Coaching and QB were their issue. Smith is an upgrade from Cassell and Reid has proven a good HC over the years.


Manning looked average against the Ravens in the 2nd half of the playoff game.

Reid has had some really bad seasons of late, Smith has been up and down in SF.

Rivers is turnover prone.

The Raiders are a completely different team then last year very little is left over so unless you have a crystal ball you or anyone else for that matter does not know what they'll be until the season.


We have a ton of new faces, IMO it's going to take a little while to gel and get on the same page.

I think we will be more competitive than last year for sure though. Especially because I feel this team will play with more heart and have way better leadership.

Palooka is right though, Denver is far and away the class of this division.

KC has talent, but if Reid gets pass happy with Smith and doesn't play to his strengths, that might end up badly. Still up in the air with those two, although Reid does seem to have new life now that he's out of that heck hole that is Philadelphia.

San Diego has talent and the second best QB in the division. But they have the worst O line in the division (possibly league) so we may be able to do some things against them.

Right now I see us finishing third. All three teams are pretty weak though, so you never know.

As much as I would love to upset Denver in Mile High on MNF, I actually see us getting swept by them again Crying or Very sad


I don't see the Raiders winning the division, but I can see 6 wins because of a young hungry team wanting to show they belong in the league.

2014 though will be very interesting though. Very Happy
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
ch8878 wrote:

So Denver will sweep the division with a 40 year old QB with neck and shoulder issues, and KC is better how ?

Raiders will be much better you can count on it. Wink


After watching Manning last year, you really want make that argument? The guy was electric all season. He's still and elite QB in the NFL. And they had no problem sweeping the Raiders a year ago w/ that same Manning.

KC has talent all over the field. Coaching and QB were their issue. Smith is an upgrade from Cassell and Reid has proven a good HC over the years.


Manning looked average against the Ravens in the 2nd half of the playoff game.

Reid has had some really bad seasons of late, Smith has been up and down in SF.

Rivers is turnover prone.

The Raiders are a completely different team then last year very little is left over so unless you have a crystal ball you or anyone else for that matter does not know what they'll be until the season.


We have a ton of new faces, IMO it's going to take a little while to gel and get on the same page.

I think we will be more competitive than last year for sure though. Especially because I feel this team will play with more heart and have way better leadership.

Palooka is right though, Denver is far and away the class of this division.

KC has talent, but if Reid gets pass happy with Smith and doesn't play to his strengths, that might end up badly. Still up in the air with those two, although Reid does seem to have new life now that he's out of that heck hole that is Philadelphia.

San Diego has talent and the second best QB in the division. But they have the worst O line in the division (possibly league) so we may be able to do some things against them.

Right now I see us finishing third. All three teams are pretty weak though, so you never know.

As much as I would love to upset Denver in Mile High on MNF, I actually see us getting swept by them again Crying or Very sad


I don't see the Raiders winning the division, but I can see 6 wins because of a young hungry team wanting to show they belong in the league.

2014 though will be very interesting though. Very Happy


Imvho, the Raiders may collectively be one of the least talented rosters in the NFL after "The Purge". Youth & inexperience usually equates to a season of growing pains and character lessons and there is tons of it all over the roster. Although talented, the previous roster had to be purged of poisonous contracts and un-sustainability. However, the bright-side is that 2013 IS the bottom and in 2014 the Raiders will no longer be dismantling but finally building on a solid foundation. Imo, it's unrealistic/rare to believe that you can completely dismantle and reload in the same year as those were decent players the Raiders took a hatchet to this off-season.
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i didnt even bother reading through this thread, but some of you guys are so short sighted its not even funny...how hard is to comprehend the situation Reggie came into? Cap hell, no picks, lack of talent, 10 years of suckage...and hes supposed to turn it around in 1 off season? Reggie has done an even better job than i could have imagined...hes got rid of a bunch or horrible contracts, freed up a ton of space for future years, got rid of poor attitudes and brought in several solid FA's for cheap and doubled up on draft picks with nice draft day deals...are we competing for the playoffs next season? probably not! but we are in a far better position to succeed moving forward than we have in years...we will no longer be over the cap 10+million before FA begins, no longer will we be without premium draft picks...at least give the man a chance to see his process through before you call for his neck...what do you want? another GM so he can bring in his staff and players?cool! we spend 2 years scrapping our team, lets do it again with a new regime smfh....you guys are the same guys that were calling for Al do hire a GM, now we have one that is well regarded in the NFL community and we cant to fire him? You know Ron Wolfe had a big hand in his hiring,right? i trust Ron and Reggie more than a bunch of arm chair GM's who really dont know squat about personnel or running an NFL Franchise....
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
I don't see the Raiders winning the division, but I can see 6 wins because of a young hungry team wanting to show they belong in the league.

2014 though will be very interesting though. Very Happy


Imvho, the Raiders may collectively be one of the least talented rosters in the NFL after "The Purge". Youth & inexperience usually equates to a season of growing pains and character lessons and there is tons of it all over the roster. Although talented, the previous roster had to be purged of poisonous contracts and un-sustainability. However, the bright-side is that 2013 IS the bottom and in 2014 the Raiders will no longer be dismantling but finally building on a solid foundation. Imo, it's unrealistic/rare to believe that you can completely dismantle and reload in the same year as those were decent players the Raiders took a hatchet to this off-season.


Why are the Raiders one of the least talented rosters because ESPN says they are ?

Each year is a total different story, and if Sio Moore can bring anything close to what Wimbley did this defense might be really good.

Also Nick Roach is 100 times better then any of the MLB the Raiders had last year, plus the secondary will be way better.

None of the teams in the AFC West blow me away.

Denver - Yes Welker is there, but Dr. Doom is gone now teams will double team Von Miller there pass rush might be gone.

Chargers - Rivers is turnover prone, the running game doesn't look improved, and O-Line wasn't really improved.

KC - Is Alex Smith an improvement ? Will there O-Line be better ?

Teams in the division don't look that improved to me I just don't see it.

Raiders - RB's deeper depth, TE's may or may not be better, O-Line now back in the power blocking scheme could play allot better, QB's might not throw for 4,000 yards but I doubt they will have 20 turnovers either, LB's will be 100 times better, secondary will be 100 times better.


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justwinbaby81


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I agree with you about SD and KC, DEN is poised to make a SB run. Manning will choke it away as usual, but they are as much of a lock for division champs as there is.

KC gets a mediocre QB and an extremely overrated coach and get handed 2nd place by every talking head. It's not gonna happen.
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ch8878


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
While I agree with you about SD and KC, DEN is poised to make a SB run. Manning will choke it away as usual, but they are as much of a lock for division champs as there is.

KC gets a mediocre QB and an extremely overrated coach and get handed 2nd place by every talking head. It's not gonna happen.


Denver's offense might put up mega numbers yes, but losing Dr. Doom will hurt there defense you can bet on that.
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justwinbaby81


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
While I agree with you about SD and KC, DEN is poised to make a SB run. Manning will choke it away as usual, but they are as much of a lock for division champs as there is.

KC gets a mediocre QB and an extremely overrated coach and get handed 2nd place by every talking head. It's not gonna happen.


Denver's offense might put up mega numbers yes, but losing Dr. Doom will hurt there defense you can bet on that.


It'll hurt the D a little bit, but its not changing the fact they are looking at 10 wins minimum, unless of course Manning gets hurt.

What I think is funny is A) I think we have as good of a chance at 2nd place as either SD or KC and B) our team is so Boom or Bust that we can either be the surprise team of the entire league and sneak into a Wild Card spot or be the worst in the league. We have question marks at nearly every spot.
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ch8878


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
While I agree with you about SD and KC, DEN is poised to make a SB run. Manning will choke it away as usual, but they are as much of a lock for division champs as there is.

KC gets a mediocre QB and an extremely overrated coach and get handed 2nd place by every talking head. It's not gonna happen.


Denver's offense might put up mega numbers yes, but losing Dr. Doom will hurt there defense you can bet on that.


It'll hurt the D a little bit, but its not changing the fact they are looking at 10 wins minimum, unless of course Manning gets hurt.

What I think is funny is A) I think we have as good of a chance at 2nd place as either SD or KC and B) our team is so Boom or Bust that we can either be the surprise team of the entire league and sneak into a Wild Card spot or be the worst in the league. We have question marks at nearly every spot.


I can agree with that, but the people saying they Raiders will be lucky to get 3 wins is a joke. Laughing
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:

Why are the Raiders one of the least talented rosters because ESPN says they are ?


No. Because they lack any game changing talent. There isn't a pro bowl caliber player on the team outside the kicker and FB. They are very mediocre and thin in a lot of areas. A lot of these players wouldn't start for the better teams in the league.

ch8878 wrote:
Each year is a total different story, and if Sio Moore can bring anything close to what Wimbley did this defense might be really good.


Banking on a rookie to have an immediate impact. Also, the defense wasn't good when Wimbley was on it. So he'd have to bring a lot more than that.

ch8878 wrote:
Also Nick Roach is 100 times better then any of the MLB the Raiders had last year, plus the secondary will be way better.


Roach is an unknown. He could prove solid, but he could easily be overwhelmed with a guy like Melton in front of him.

ch8878 wrote:
None of the teams in the AFC West blow me away.


This is because you are a giant homer only seeing things through S&B frames.

ch8878 wrote:
Denver - Yes Welker is there, but Dr. Doom is gone now teams will double team Von Miller there pass rush might be gone.


PEYTON MANNING!! As he goes, so go the Broncos and he's an elite QB. And Denver has capable pass rushers. It's laughable you think teams can just 'double team' one of the leagues best pass rushers. If that worked, how come top pass rushers produce year in and out?

ch8878 wrote:
Chargers - Rivers is turnover prone, the running game doesn't look improved, and O-Line wasn't really improved.


I have no beef with how you feel about the Chargers. They are an unknown. But they have a talented defense.

ch8878 wrote:
KC - Is Alex Smith an improvement ? Will there O-Line be better ?


Fisher and Albert are fine bookends no? And Smith is a better game manager than Cassell. Oh and you left out Andy Reid who has proven to be a solid HC in this league.

ch8878 wrote:
Teams in the division don't look that improved to me I just don't see it.


See homer comment above. They are vastly improved. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to say to you.

ch8878 wrote:
Raiders - RB's deeper depth, TE's may or may not be better, O-Line now back in the power blocking scheme could play allot better, QB's might not throw for 4,000 yards but I doubt they will have 20 turnovers either, LB's will be 100 times better, secondary will be 100 times better.


Again, homer logic. The Raiders make additions and changes and are going to be much improved but the division does similar and they 'don't look that improved' to you. Did you see who the Broncos added in FA by chance besides Welker, it's impressive. KC overhauled the coaching staff and has multiple probowl players on the roster as is. The Chargers are the only question mark.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
While I agree with you about SD and KC, DEN is poised to make a SB run. Manning will choke it away as usual, but they are as much of a lock for division champs as there is.

KC gets a mediocre QB and an extremely overrated coach and get handed 2nd place by every talking head. It's not gonna happen.


Denver's offense might put up mega numbers yes, but losing Dr. Doom will hurt there defense you can bet on that.


He's not going to hurt that much. Not with the addition of Phillips and Knighton. DRC upgraded them at CB. Von Miller can still take over a game and Wolfe was damn good for a rookie last year.

Doom was a liability against the run and overrated as a pass rusher. Von Miller has DPOY type ability, so they won't blink at the loss of Doom.
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ch8878


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
No. Because they lack any game changing talent. There isn't a pro bowl caliber player on the team outside the kicker and FB. They are very mediocre and thin in a lot of areas. A lot of these players wouldn't start for the better teams in the league.


2011 Andre Carter had 10 sacks, Josh Cribbs has been one of the best return men in the league, Darren McFadden when healthy is one of the best RB's in the league, Denarius Moore can take it to the house at any moment the list goes on.

big_palooka wrote:
Banking on a rookie to have an immediate impact. Also, the defense wasn't good when Wimbley was on it. So he'd have to bring a lot more than that.


Why not bank on a rookie it surely helped Denver a few years ago.

big_palooka wrote:
Roach is an unknown. He could prove solid, but he could easily be overwhelmed with a guy like Melton in front of him.


What is so unknown about Roach a guy who has sat behind one of or the best MLB to ever play in the NFL and when Urlacher was hurt averaged 10+ tackles per game.

big_palooka wrote:
This is because you are a giant homer only seeing things through S&B frames.


So anyone who bases there opinion around facts is a homer ?

big_palooka wrote:
PEYTON MANNING!! As he goes, so go the Broncos and he's an elite QB. And Denver has capable pass rushers. It's laughable you think teams can just 'double team' one of the leagues best pass rushers. If that worked, how come top pass rushers produce year in and out?


Who are these mysterious capable pass rushers you talk about none I can see on there roster.

big_palooka wrote:
Fisher and Albert are fine bookends no? And Smith is a better game manager than Cassell. Oh and you left out Andy Reid who has proven to be a solid HC in this league.


Albert just had back surgery, and Fisher banking on a rookie to have an immediate impact. Andy Reid isn't what he use to be that based around his teams performance the last few seasons.

big_palooka wrote:
See homer comment above. They are vastly improved. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to say to you.


See facts by reading not making things up.

big_palooka wrote:
Again, homer logic. The Raiders make additions and changes and are going to be much improved but the division does similar and they 'don't look that improved' to you. Did you see who the Broncos added in FA by chance besides Welker, it's impressive. KC overhauled the coaching staff and has multiple probowl players on the roster as is. The Chargers are the only question mark.


Again making crap up logic.

I guess if saying anything positive about the Raiders instead of jumping on the bashing bandwagon makes me a homer so be it.
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ch8878


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
While I agree with you about SD and KC, DEN is poised to make a SB run. Manning will choke it away as usual, but they are as much of a lock for division champs as there is.

KC gets a mediocre QB and an extremely overrated coach and get handed 2nd place by every talking head. It's not gonna happen.


Denver's offense might put up mega numbers yes, but losing Dr. Doom will hurt there defense you can bet on that.


He's not going to hurt that much. Not with the addition of Phillips and Knighton. DRC upgraded them at CB. Von Miller can still take over a game and Wolfe was damn good for a rookie last year.

Doom was a liability against the run and overrated as a pass rusher. Von Miller has DPOY type ability, so they won't blink at the loss of Doom.


Elvis Dumervil Career Stats :

2012 - 11 sacks, 6 Force Fumbles
2011 - 9.5 sacks, 1 Fumble Recovered
2009 - 17 sacks, 4 Force Fumbles, 1 Fumble Recovered
2008 - 5 sacks, 1 Force Fumbles, 1 Fumble Recovered
2007 - 12.5 sacks, 1 INT, 4 Force Fumbles, 3 Fumble Recovered
2006 - 8.5 sacks, 1 Force Fumbles, 3 Fumble Recovered

I assure you he'll be missed.

Shaun Phillips has been good a 3-4 guy pretty much his entire career so not sure if he will put up the numbers he did in SD.

4 years 7.5 sacks I don't see Terrance Knighton as a threat.
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Ro4DPoY


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So is palooka a Denver fan? Just wondering. I mean with the Peyton Manning love and the Raiders bashing I swear palooka if your going to talk about football at least go to the Broncos section lol. Every other fan here for the most part is trying to be positive while your ready to get 0-16 tattoo'd on your forehead.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ro4DPoY wrote:
So is palooka a Denver fan? Just wondering. I mean with the Peyton Manning love and the Raiders bashing I swear palooka if your going to talk about football at least go to the Broncos section lol. Every other fan here for the most part is trying to be positive while your ready to get 0-16 tattoo'd on your forehead.


Because I can look at my team objectively and take emotion out of it, I'm a Denver fan.

I have the Raiders winning 4-5 games. And if you can't respect that Peyton Manning brings to that Denver team I don't know what to tell you.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
No. Because they lack any game changing talent. There isn't a pro bowl caliber player on the team outside the kicker and FB. They are very mediocre and thin in a lot of areas. A lot of these players wouldn't start for the better teams in the league.


2011 Andre Carter had 10 sacks, Josh Cribbs has been one of the best return men in the league, Darren McFadden when healthy is one of the best RB's in the league, Denarius Moore can take it to the house at any moment the list goes on.

big_palooka wrote:
Banking on a rookie to have an immediate impact. Also, the defense wasn't good when Wimbley was on it. So he'd have to bring a lot more than that.


Why not bank on a rookie it surely helped Denver a few years ago.

big_palooka wrote:
Roach is an unknown. He could prove solid, but he could easily be overwhelmed with a guy like Melton in front of him.


What is so unknown about Roach a guy who has sat behind one of or the best MLB to ever play in the NFL and when Urlacher was hurt averaged 10+ tackles per game.

big_palooka wrote:
This is because you are a giant homer only seeing things through S&B frames.


So anyone who bases there opinion around facts is a homer ?

big_palooka wrote:
PEYTON MANNING!! As he goes, so go the Broncos and he's an elite QB. And Denver has capable pass rushers. It's laughable you think teams can just 'double team' one of the leagues best pass rushers. If that worked, how come top pass rushers produce year in and out?


Who are these mysterious capable pass rushers you talk about none I can see on there roster.

big_palooka wrote:
Fisher and Albert are fine bookends no? And Smith is a better game manager than Cassell. Oh and you left out Andy Reid who has proven to be a solid HC in this league.


Albert just had back surgery, and Fisher banking on a rookie to have an immediate impact. Andy Reid isn't what he use to be that based around his teams performance the last few seasons.

big_palooka wrote:
See homer comment above. They are vastly improved. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to say to you.


See facts by reading not making things up.

big_palooka wrote:
Again, homer logic. The Raiders make additions and changes and are going to be much improved but the division does similar and they 'don't look that improved' to you. Did you see who the Broncos added in FA by chance besides Welker, it's impressive. KC overhauled the coaching staff and has multiple probowl players on the roster as is. The Chargers are the only question mark.


Again making crap up logic.

I guess if saying anything positive about the Raiders instead of jumping on the bashing bandwagon makes me a homer so be it.


Again. 99% of your post is nothing more than hope and prayers or turning a blind eye.

Hoping Carter gets back to 2011 form. Hoping Cribbs who has be regressing recovers from his knee. Hoping McFadden can stay healthy when he's not shown he can. Hoping Moore can progress after a lackluster 2012 season.

Laughable you compare the situation w/ Sio to Von Miller. Miller was the #2 overall pick w/ one of the nastiest first steps of a pass rusher drafted in years. Moore is not even remotely the same player and I love the kid. What's funnier is you won't give Fisher (KC) the credit to have an immediate impact despite being one of the cleanest players in the draft and take #1 overall.

Anyway, you're blindly trying to have faith in your team. It's an emotional response and that's fine. Logic will tell you they are not very talented and will need to have some players really shine and stay healthy to compete.
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