Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Conner Vernon Impressing at OTA's
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5624
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're comparing a player with rare prototypical measureables combined with the one-in-a-generation accumen to succeed in ANY system vs a guy with pedestrian measureables albeit a high football IQ that needs to be in a certain system to succeed.

Welker vs. Elway. Is there even a comparison despite both playing in a system?
_________________
Raiders 2014 Draft (check out my draft review tell me what you think)
Mancrush 2014: DE Clowney, WR Watkins, OT Robinson, LB Shazier, FS Brooks, TE ASJ, OG Jackson, WR Janis, OT Lucas, OT Tiny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5360
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Vernon is going to be the overblown 'it' player in camp I see.

He went undrafted for a reason. Not saying he can't make the roster and offer something, but people penciling him in already is slightly laughable.


It's not really laughable to say he has a shot at a roster full of young, mostly unproven or injury prone WR's. Not laughable at all really. Undrafted players make it all the time. Guys get drafted that were slotted to go undrafted, and guys slotted to go undrafted get drafted (like Butler, for example). Guys got drafted ahead of Vernon who didn't have anywhere near his production but for some reason seemed like they had more potential, or a higher ceiling. Maybe it's pro day numbers, or what not, but on tape Vernon is more impressive than quite a number of WR's drafted ahead of him.

Can I ask why reason Kevin Dorsey out of Maryland was drafted, and Vernon was not? Dorsey had a whopping 18 catches this past year.

Even Brice Butler. Sure he is bigger and a little faster than Vernon. But I don't think there's anything else that he does better on tape. Vernon had almost as many catches during his freshman year as Butler had his whole career.


I didn't say that it was laughable that he make the roster. It's laughable that most are penciling him in and arguing keeping 7 WR before he's put pads on.

This overreaction to a player happens every year.

Vernon was a system WR in Cutcliff's offense. The numbers are never the whole story and no college player's NFL success can be translated off them.


Peyton Manning was a system QB under Cutcliff your point ? Shocked


File that in the irrelevant post pile. What does Manning, a QB with all the physical skills for the position have to do with a WR without them?

Cutcliff compared Duke QB Sean Renfree's mental makeup of the game and preparation to Manning, but he was a 7th round pick.

Again, you're argument has no validity.


Your the one with no validity there was questions in the draft when Peyton Manning was pick him or Leaf because people though Manning was nothing more of a system QB in Cutcliff's offence at Tennessee.



So you are comparing a prolific college passer drafted #1 overall against a WR who went undrafted.

Again, no validity whatsoever to your argument. The point was, the ACC all time leading WR stuff w/ Vernon was irrelevant and inflated because of the system he played in.


You focus on the position is irrelevant. Razz

The argument system player is also irrelevant because there has been many players that where viewed as system players and has went on to have great careers I just used Manning as an example of of system player that had a great career.


Its not that they were both "system" guys, its that one of those "system" guys had elite measurables and was a consensus top-2 QB, and the other one does not have elite measurables and went undrafted. Its not so much of a risk to take a system guy if he possesses all the elite measurables as it is to take a system player without them. Like RGIII- many thought he was a system QB but the risk was lower because he also happened to have elite arm strength and athleticism.
_________________


Silver&Black88 on the sig

La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
EricAllen21


Joined: 28 May 2013
Posts: 955
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm hoping 2-3 wideouts emerge this year

Steater
Moore
Vernon
Butler that would be nice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 2620
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
Its not that they were both "system" guys, its that one of those "system" guys had elite measurables and was a consensus top-2 QB, and the other one does not have elite measurables and went undrafted. Its not so much of a risk to take a system guy if he possesses all the elite measurables as it is to take a system player without them. Like RGIII- many thought he was a system QB but the risk was lower because he also happened to have elite arm strength and athleticism.


The argument Conner Vernon is a "system guy" is a joke it has nothing to do with his route running or catching the ball the kid has skills.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
justwinbaby81


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 3799
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonder what Arman Shields is up to these days.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 32510
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
Wonder what Arman Shields is up to these days.


Chillin with Schilens in the ice tub prolly.
_________________

BigBillsFan13 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Somewhere, RR strokes his mustache with pride
Among other things...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5624
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Its not that they were both "system" guys, its that one of those "system" guys had elite measurables and was a consensus top-2 QB, and the other one does not have elite measurables and went undrafted. Its not so much of a risk to take a system guy if he possesses all the elite measurables as it is to take a system player without them. Like RGIII- many thought he was a system QB but the risk was lower because he also happened to have elite arm strength and athleticism.


The argument Conner Vernon is a "system guy" is a joke it has nothing to do with his route running or catching the ball the kid has skills.


Don't get it twisted, Welker, Hartline, Stokley & Amendola (players who Vernon is compared to) are system guys who are limited to playing underneath coverage and working the gaps in zone. As efficient as they are at what they do, collectively they physically limited. Transcendent players dominate regardless of most systems.

If Vernon is to find success then the Raiders need to place him in position to win, which is supposedly what Olsen does (play to the player's strength). If not, then Vernon will be Nick Miller 2.0.
_________________
Raiders 2014 Draft (check out my draft review tell me what you think)
Mancrush 2014: DE Clowney, WR Watkins, OT Robinson, LB Shazier, FS Brooks, TE ASJ, OG Jackson, WR Janis, OT Lucas, OT Tiny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 2620
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Its not that they were both "system" guys, its that one of those "system" guys had elite measurables and was a consensus top-2 QB, and the other one does not have elite measurables and went undrafted. Its not so much of a risk to take a system guy if he possesses all the elite measurables as it is to take a system player without them. Like RGIII- many thought he was a system QB but the risk was lower because he also happened to have elite arm strength and athleticism.


The argument Conner Vernon is a "system guy" is a joke it has nothing to do with his route running or catching the ball the kid has skills.


Don't get it twisted, Welker, Hartline, Stokley & Amendola (players who Vernon is compared to) are system guys who are limited to playing underneath coverage and working the gaps in zone. As efficient as they are at what they do, collectively they physically limited. Transcendent players dominate regardless of most systems.

If Vernon is to find success then the Raiders need to place him in position to win, which is supposedly what Olsen does (play to the player's strength). If not, then Vernon will be Nick Miller 2.0.


Now that I can agree with.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 10006
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
Wonder what Arman Shields is up to these days.


So no WR will ever be good for us because Shields was a bust?

FTR, I never liked Shields
_________________
O A K L A N D R A I D E R S
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1114
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what Dolphins games you are watching, but Hartline splits out wide and is out deep, stretches the field. Bess was Miami's underneath guy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22234
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
I don't know what Dolphins games you are watching, but Hartline splits out wide and is out deep, stretches the field. Bess was Miami's underneath guy.


Was about to post the same thing. He's of caucasian persuasion so people just assume he plays in the slot.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1114
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
He's of caucasian persuasion so people just assume he plays in the slot.


I was going to mention that part too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
justwinbaby81


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 3799
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
Wonder what Arman Shields is up to these days.


So no WR will ever be good for us because Shields was a bust?

FTR, I never liked Shields


That's exactly what I meant, how did you know? You must be some kind of sorcerer. No Raiders WR will ever be good because Arman Shields. And it stems solely from you never liking him.


The irony is that you "never liked" a WR we drafted but you get upset when people dog undrafted guys. You're allowed to dislike bad players but we aren't?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 32510
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Quote:
He's of caucasian persuasion so people just assume he plays in the slot.


I was going to mention that part too.


No I assume he's going to play the slot because his skillset is similar to players who have had success there. This race thing is flipping ridiculous.
_________________

BigBillsFan13 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Somewhere, RR strokes his mustache with pride
Among other things...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11758
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Burgesskills wrote:
Quote:
He's of caucasian persuasion so people just assume he plays in the slot.


I was going to mention that part too.


No I assume he's going to play the slot because his skillset is similar to players who have had success there. This race thing is flipping ridiculous.


Agreed. It's pretty evident IMO.
_________________


PM sig requests.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 5 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group