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Conner Vernon Impressing at OTA's
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 25678
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Vernon is going to be the overblown 'it' player in camp I see.

He went undrafted for a reason. Not saying he can't make the roster and offer something, but people penciling him in already is slightly laughable.


It's not really laughable to say he has a shot at a roster full of young, mostly unproven or injury prone WR's. Not laughable at all really. Undrafted players make it all the time. Guys get drafted that were slotted to go undrafted, and guys slotted to go undrafted get drafted (like Butler, for example). Guys got drafted ahead of Vernon who didn't have anywhere near his production but for some reason seemed like they had more potential, or a higher ceiling. Maybe it's pro day numbers, or what not, but on tape Vernon is more impressive than quite a number of WR's drafted ahead of him.

Can I ask why reason Kevin Dorsey out of Maryland was drafted, and Vernon was not? Dorsey had a whopping 18 catches this past year.

Even Brice Butler. Sure he is bigger and a little faster than Vernon. But I don't think there's anything else that he does better on tape. Vernon had almost as many catches during his freshman year as Butler had his whole career.


I didn't say that it was laughable that he make the roster. It's laughable that most are penciling him in and arguing keeping 7 WR before he's put pads on.

This overreaction to a player happens every year.

Vernon was a system WR in Cutcliff's offense. The numbers are never the whole story and no college player's NFL success can be translated off them.
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raiderfan19


Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 3017
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
raiderfan19 wrote:
Dude sounds like Criner last year and seems like every year we have a wideout who stands out in shorts. Can we get one that's good in pads and produces beyond year 2 is the real question.


If one can stay healthy and we keep the same system and QB for 2 years, it might happen.


LOL. True. True. It is frustrating . . . . .

Seems like we go through tis every year at this position going back to Chaz and JLH to Murphy, Ford, Moore and Criner. Hopefully Streater can break this trend.
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DarthDavis


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
I haven't mentioned, Moore but I doubt he would get cut. Maybe traded though.


If Butler and Vernon look the part of potential starters then I wouldn't mind seeing Moore traded. His catch to thrown at ratio is really bad. I feel like he is a guy that can explode one week and then just play half speed the next week. Sometimes his hands go numb as well. I think it wouldn't be a bad move to trade him mid camp to a NFC team that is looking to add a WR (49ers?).

Streater
Ford
Criner
Butler
Vernon
Cribbs

It would be a major tell season for our WR's. I doubt it would get to this but I almost like it for some reason. I am not going to outwardly say I want him traded but its a direction I find interesting. I think Moore could be a huge breakout for us at the same time if he can improve his grey areas.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Young WRs aren't going to flourish in an offense lead by Greg Knapp. If you have a bad OC, your players are going to suffer the consequences. Hopefully Olsen proves to be good at his job.
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Nodisrespect


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
Young WRs aren't going to flourish in an offense lead by Greg Knapp. If you have a bad OC, your players are going to suffer the consequences. Hopefully Olsen proves to be good at his job.
Good point.

And i've seen some of examples of the type of offense that Olsen run and he doesn't seem effective unless he is getting long completions down the field, something players with who aren't tall or fast usually can't be great at, and to top it off we look like we will run a short pass offense with a QB who may have problems throwing the ball down the sidelines deep or threw the seam(especially without a dominant tight end). I like his run plays and the run game play calling looks solid but i have a strong feeling our passing game will suck this year.
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DOCLEW 28


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 11203
Location: East Oakland
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Vernon is going to be the overblown 'it' player in camp I see.

He went undrafted for a reason. Not saying he can't make the roster and offer something, but people penciling him in already is slightly laughable.


I don't think anyone is penciling in anyone. And there is a reason Rod Streater wasn't drafted either. So what is the difference? The proof will be on the field on this level. Period. Until then all of this stuff is pure speculation.
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Vernon is going to be the overblown 'it' player in camp I see.

He went undrafted for a reason. Not saying he can't make the roster and offer something, but people penciling him in already is slightly laughable.


It's not really laughable to say he has a shot at a roster full of young, mostly unproven or injury prone WR's. Not laughable at all really. Undrafted players make it all the time. Guys get drafted that were slotted to go undrafted, and guys slotted to go undrafted get drafted (like Butler, for example). Guys got drafted ahead of Vernon who didn't have anywhere near his production but for some reason seemed like they had more potential, or a higher ceiling. Maybe it's pro day numbers, or what not, but on tape Vernon is more impressive than quite a number of WR's drafted ahead of him.

Can I ask why reason Kevin Dorsey out of Maryland was drafted, and Vernon was not? Dorsey had a whopping 18 catches this past year.

Even Brice Butler. Sure he is bigger and a little faster than Vernon. But I don't think there's anything else that he does better on tape. Vernon had almost as many catches during his freshman year as Butler had his whole career.


Measureables. Low risk vs. upside for a 7th
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 24271
Location: Crown Town, CA
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Vernon is going to be the overblown 'it' player in camp I see.

He went undrafted for a reason. Not saying he can't make the roster and offer something, but people penciling him in already is slightly laughable.


It's not really laughable to say he has a shot at a roster full of young, mostly unproven or injury prone WR's. Not laughable at all really. Undrafted players make it all the time. Guys get drafted that were slotted to go undrafted, and guys slotted to go undrafted get drafted (like Butler, for example). Guys got drafted ahead of Vernon who didn't have anywhere near his production but for some reason seemed like they had more potential, or a higher ceiling. Maybe it's pro day numbers, or what not, but on tape Vernon is more impressive than quite a number of WR's drafted ahead of him.

Can I ask why reason Kevin Dorsey out of Maryland was drafted, and Vernon was not? Dorsey had a whopping 18 catches this past year.

Even Brice Butler. Sure he is bigger and a little faster than Vernon. But I don't think there's anything else that he does better on tape. Vernon had almost as many catches during his freshman year as Butler had his whole career.


Measureables. Low risk vs. upside for a 7th


Same reason guys like Welker and Amendola went undrafted.
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Yea, RaiderX wins. We can all just top acting like this is a matter of opinion. MY GOD.
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 2620
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarthDavis wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I haven't mentioned, Moore but I doubt he would get cut. Maybe traded though.


If Butler and Vernon look the part of potential starters then I wouldn't mind seeing Moore traded. His catch to thrown at ratio is really bad. I feel like he is a guy that can explode one week and then just play half speed the next week. Sometimes his hands go numb as well. I think it wouldn't be a bad move to trade him mid camp to a NFC team that is looking to add a WR (49ers?).

Streater
Ford
Criner
Butler
Vernon
Cribbs

It would be a major tell season for our WR's. I doubt it would get to this but I almost like it for some reason. I am not going to outwardly say I want him traded but its a direction I find interesting. I think Moore could be a huge breakout for us at the same time if he can improve his grey areas.


No way Moore isn't going anywhere. Very Happy
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Vernon is going to be the overblown 'it' player in camp I see.

He went undrafted for a reason. Not saying he can't make the roster and offer something, but people penciling him in already is slightly laughable.


It's not really laughable to say he has a shot at a roster full of young, mostly unproven or injury prone WR's. Not laughable at all really. Undrafted players make it all the time. Guys get drafted that were slotted to go undrafted, and guys slotted to go undrafted get drafted (like Butler, for example). Guys got drafted ahead of Vernon who didn't have anywhere near his production but for some reason seemed like they had more potential, or a higher ceiling. Maybe it's pro day numbers, or what not, but on tape Vernon is more impressive than quite a number of WR's drafted ahead of him.

Can I ask why reason Kevin Dorsey out of Maryland was drafted, and Vernon was not? Dorsey had a whopping 18 catches this past year.

Even Brice Butler. Sure he is bigger and a little faster than Vernon. But I don't think there's anything else that he does better on tape. Vernon had almost as many catches during his freshman year as Butler had his whole career.


I didn't say that it was laughable that he make the roster. It's laughable that most are penciling him in and arguing keeping 7 WR before he's put pads on.

This overreaction to a player happens every year.

Vernon was a system WR in Cutcliff's offense. The numbers are never the whole story and no college player's NFL success can be translated off them.


Peyton Manning was a system QB under Cutcliff your point ? Shocked
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Vernon is going to be the overblown 'it' player in camp I see.

He went undrafted for a reason. Not saying he can't make the roster and offer something, but people penciling him in already is slightly laughable.


It's not really laughable to say he has a shot at a roster full of young, mostly unproven or injury prone WR's. Not laughable at all really. Undrafted players make it all the time. Guys get drafted that were slotted to go undrafted, and guys slotted to go undrafted get drafted (like Butler, for example). Guys got drafted ahead of Vernon who didn't have anywhere near his production but for some reason seemed like they had more potential, or a higher ceiling. Maybe it's pro day numbers, or what not, but on tape Vernon is more impressive than quite a number of WR's drafted ahead of him.

Can I ask why reason Kevin Dorsey out of Maryland was drafted, and Vernon was not? Dorsey had a whopping 18 catches this past year.

Even Brice Butler. Sure he is bigger and a little faster than Vernon. But I don't think there's anything else that he does better on tape. Vernon had almost as many catches during his freshman year as Butler had his whole career.


I didn't say that it was laughable that he make the roster. It's laughable that most are penciling him in and arguing keeping 7 WR before he's put pads on.

This overreaction to a player happens every year.

Vernon was a system WR in Cutcliff's offense. The numbers are never the whole story and no college player's NFL success can be translated off them.


Peyton Manning was a system QB under Cutcliff your point ? Shocked


File that in the irrelevant post pile. What does Manning, a QB with all the physical skills for the position have to do with a WR without them?

Cutcliff compared Duke QB Sean Renfree's mental makeup of the game and preparation to Manning, but he was a 7th round pick.

Again, you're argument has no validity.
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 2620
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Vernon is going to be the overblown 'it' player in camp I see.

He went undrafted for a reason. Not saying he can't make the roster and offer something, but people penciling him in already is slightly laughable.


It's not really laughable to say he has a shot at a roster full of young, mostly unproven or injury prone WR's. Not laughable at all really. Undrafted players make it all the time. Guys get drafted that were slotted to go undrafted, and guys slotted to go undrafted get drafted (like Butler, for example). Guys got drafted ahead of Vernon who didn't have anywhere near his production but for some reason seemed like they had more potential, or a higher ceiling. Maybe it's pro day numbers, or what not, but on tape Vernon is more impressive than quite a number of WR's drafted ahead of him.

Can I ask why reason Kevin Dorsey out of Maryland was drafted, and Vernon was not? Dorsey had a whopping 18 catches this past year.

Even Brice Butler. Sure he is bigger and a little faster than Vernon. But I don't think there's anything else that he does better on tape. Vernon had almost as many catches during his freshman year as Butler had his whole career.


I didn't say that it was laughable that he make the roster. It's laughable that most are penciling him in and arguing keeping 7 WR before he's put pads on.

This overreaction to a player happens every year.

Vernon was a system WR in Cutcliff's offense. The numbers are never the whole story and no college player's NFL success can be translated off them.


Peyton Manning was a system QB under Cutcliff your point ? Shocked


File that in the irrelevant post pile. What does Manning, a QB with all the physical skills for the position have to do with a WR without them?

Cutcliff compared Duke QB Sean Renfree's mental makeup of the game and preparation to Manning, but he was a 7th round pick.

Again, you're argument has no validity.


Your the one with no validity there was questions in the draft when Peyton Manning was pick him or Leaf because people though Manning was nothing more of a system QB in Cutcliff's offence at Tennessee.


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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Vernon is going to be the overblown 'it' player in camp I see.

He went undrafted for a reason. Not saying he can't make the roster and offer something, but people penciling him in already is slightly laughable.


It's not really laughable to say he has a shot at a roster full of young, mostly unproven or injury prone WR's. Not laughable at all really. Undrafted players make it all the time. Guys get drafted that were slotted to go undrafted, and guys slotted to go undrafted get drafted (like Butler, for example). Guys got drafted ahead of Vernon who didn't have anywhere near his production but for some reason seemed like they had more potential, or a higher ceiling. Maybe it's pro day numbers, or what not, but on tape Vernon is more impressive than quite a number of WR's drafted ahead of him.

Can I ask why reason Kevin Dorsey out of Maryland was drafted, and Vernon was not? Dorsey had a whopping 18 catches this past year.

Even Brice Butler. Sure he is bigger and a little faster than Vernon. But I don't think there's anything else that he does better on tape. Vernon had almost as many catches during his freshman year as Butler had his whole career.


I didn't say that it was laughable that he make the roster. It's laughable that most are penciling him in and arguing keeping 7 WR before he's put pads on.

This overreaction to a player happens every year.

Vernon was a system WR in Cutcliff's offense. The numbers are never the whole story and no college player's NFL success can be translated off them.


Peyton Manning was a system QB under Cutcliff your point ? Shocked


File that in the irrelevant post pile. What does Manning, a QB with all the physical skills for the position have to do with a WR without them?

Cutcliff compared Duke QB Sean Renfree's mental makeup of the game and preparation to Manning, but he was a 7th round pick.

Again, you're argument has no validity.


Your the one with no validity there was questions in the draft when Peyton Manning was pick him or Leaf because people though Manning was nothing more of a system QB in Cutcliff's offence at Tennessee.



So you are comparing a prolific college passer drafted #1 overall against a WR who went undrafted.

Again, no validity whatsoever to your argument. The point was, the ACC all time leading WR stuff w/ Vernon was irrelevant and inflated because of the system he played in.
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Vernon is going to be the overblown 'it' player in camp I see.

He went undrafted for a reason. Not saying he can't make the roster and offer something, but people penciling him in already is slightly laughable.


It's not really laughable to say he has a shot at a roster full of young, mostly unproven or injury prone WR's. Not laughable at all really. Undrafted players make it all the time. Guys get drafted that were slotted to go undrafted, and guys slotted to go undrafted get drafted (like Butler, for example). Guys got drafted ahead of Vernon who didn't have anywhere near his production but for some reason seemed like they had more potential, or a higher ceiling. Maybe it's pro day numbers, or what not, but on tape Vernon is more impressive than quite a number of WR's drafted ahead of him.

Can I ask why reason Kevin Dorsey out of Maryland was drafted, and Vernon was not? Dorsey had a whopping 18 catches this past year.

Even Brice Butler. Sure he is bigger and a little faster than Vernon. But I don't think there's anything else that he does better on tape. Vernon had almost as many catches during his freshman year as Butler had his whole career.


I didn't say that it was laughable that he make the roster. It's laughable that most are penciling him in and arguing keeping 7 WR before he's put pads on.

This overreaction to a player happens every year.

Vernon was a system WR in Cutcliff's offense. The numbers are never the whole story and no college player's NFL success can be translated off them.


Peyton Manning was a system QB under Cutcliff your point ? Shocked


File that in the irrelevant post pile. What does Manning, a QB with all the physical skills for the position have to do with a WR without them?

Cutcliff compared Duke QB Sean Renfree's mental makeup of the game and preparation to Manning, but he was a 7th round pick.

Again, you're argument has no validity.


Your the one with no validity there was questions in the draft when Peyton Manning was pick him or Leaf because people though Manning was nothing more of a system QB in Cutcliff's offence at Tennessee.



So you are comparing a prolific college passer drafted #1 overall against a WR who went undrafted.

Again, no validity whatsoever to your argument. The point was, the ACC all time leading WR stuff w/ Vernon was irrelevant and inflated because of the system he played in.


You focus on the position is irrelevant. Razz

The argument system player is also irrelevant because there has been many players that where viewed as system players and has went on to have great careers I just used Manning as an example of of system player that had a great career.
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OakRaiders3828


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't buy the whole system player stuff. Not only does he blow away the number two ACC Reception leader by 50+ receptions, but just watch him play. The system doesn't run routes for you, or make the types of catches that he has made (in traffic, jump balls etc).
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