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Conner Vernon Impressing at OTA's
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 9:19 am    Post subject: Conner Vernon Impressing at OTA's Reply with quote

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2013/5/30/4380654/dennis-allen-names-conner-vernon-his-standout-udfa-in-otas

Quote:
He (Dennis Allen) was asked which undrafted free agents have stood out to him and this was his response:

"Oh gosh, there's so many new faces, it's hard to keep up with all of them. I think some of those guys have done a nice job. A guy like Conner Vernon is a guy that stood out a little bit. I guess that would be one guy that I would say."


There's a great quote to follow.

This is Wilson accompanied w/ Moore and Watson could make this one of the best drafts we've seen in quite some time.
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Raiiiiidersssss


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's that time of the year -- eternal optimism.

I can't wait until training camp though. When there is daily media coverage, it is easier to get a sense of who is really standing out. I don't put too much stock into DA mentioning his name to be honest.

With that being said, I am really excited about our draft class, particularly Wilson.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raiiiiidersssss wrote:
It's that time of the year -- eternal optimism.

I can't wait until training camp though. When there is daily media coverage, it is easier to get a sense of who is really standing out. I don't put too much stock into DA mentioning his name to be honest.

With that being said, I am really excited about our draft class, particularly Wilson.


You know me and my optimistic ways Smile LOL

I only posted this b/c it is true there is a lot of hype surrounding the guy. Many thought he would be drafted but the fact he's standing out and gaining recognition is a good thing to have. To be honest, I'm OK w/ so many of these types of WRs as I've said many times before. So far, it looks like we have like 3 #2 guys. Could be more later..... That's a WR core I'm very happy w/.
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Darkness


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If only he was faster. He's a really skilled WR, but he'll struggle to create seperation and won't offer much after the catch. It's gonna take a QB who really trusts himself to throw him passes in tight coverage.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
If only he was faster. He's a really skilled WR, but he'll struggle to create seperation and won't offer much after the catch. It's gonna take a QB who really trusts himself to throw him passes in tight coverage.


It's not elite speed but running good routes can cause separation which is something he does well. I'm not going to crown the guy anything more than what he is now but he has potential to be a pretty good find and could provide a solid, reliable slot target even if only in certain situations.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
If only he was faster. He's a really skilled WR, but he'll struggle to create seperation and won't offer much after the catch. It's gonna take a QB who really trusts himself to throw him passes in tight coverage.


I don't agree at all with struggling to create separation. He probably played against guys with superior speed at all levels. Guys like him create better more consistent separation with his bread and butter, and will always be able to do so. What is his bread and butter? Precise routes, sharp breaks, and repetitive execution. Selling the route is worth everything. Why will he always be able to do so? Because his coverage opponent will almost always be a guy who has superior physical skills and lesser fundamentals. The league is crammed with 90% guys who don't execute well enough and don't learn or don't think they have anything to learn. They can always be beat by another guy who understands the game better, is more disciplined, and executes better.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Darkness wrote:
If only he was faster. He's a really skilled WR, but he'll struggle to create seperation and won't offer much after the catch. It's gonna take a QB who really trusts himself to throw him passes in tight coverage.


I don't agree at all with struggling to create separation. He probably played against guys with superior speed at all levels. Guys like him create better more consistent separation with his bread and butter, and will always be able to do so. What is his bread and butter? Precise routes, sharp breaks, and repetitive execution. Selling the route is worth everything. Why will he always be able to do so? Because his coverage opponent will almost always be a guy who has superior physical skills and lesser fundamentals. The league is crammed with 90% guys who don't execute well enough and don't learn or don't think they have anything to learn. They can always be beat by another guy who understands the game better, is more disciplined, and executes better.


Great post Ghost! If Vernon had the above mentioned speed then he wouldn't have been undrafted. Neat, well timed routes will always create a number of opportunities to get open, we certainly don't need every WR on our roster to be a speed merchant, deep threat and home run threat, Moore and Ford have some of those qualities. Vernon could find his niche as an intermediate route, move-the-chains kind of guy which all teams need. Let other guys make the flashy plays.

As i think you said in a previous post, he appears to be what he looked like on college tape, which is good for us.
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TiberiusRising


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Darkness wrote:
If only he was faster. He's a really skilled WR, but he'll struggle to create seperation and won't offer much after the catch. It's gonna take a QB who really trusts himself to throw him passes in tight coverage.


I don't agree at all with struggling to create separation. He probably played against guys with superior speed at all levels. Guys like him create better more consistent separation with his bread and butter, and will always be able to do so. What is his bread and butter? Precise routes, sharp breaks, and repetitive execution. Selling the route is worth everything. Why will he always be able to do so? Because his coverage opponent will almost always be a guy who has superior physical skills and lesser fundamentals. The league is crammed with 90% guys who don't execute well enough and don't learn or don't think they have anything to learn. They can always be beat by another guy who understands the game better, is more disciplined, and executes better.


Great post Ghost! If Vernon had the above mentioned speed then he wouldn't have been undrafted. Neat, well timed routes will always create a number of opportunities to get open, we certainly don't need every WR on our roster to be a speed merchant, deep threat and home run threat, Moore and Ford have some of those qualities. Vernon could find his niche as an intermediate route, move-the-chains kind of guy which all teams need. Let other guys make the flashy plays.

As i think you said in a previous post, he appears to be what he looked like on college tape, which is good for us.

Reminds me of Hagan a bit.
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Big Rob


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seems like he could eventually be that slot WR weve been needing...nothing like a guy who can go get 8 yards on 3rd and 7..gonna be nice competition at WR...
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Darkness


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Darkness wrote:
If only he was faster. He's a really skilled WR, but he'll struggle to create seperation and won't offer much after the catch. It's gonna take a QB who really trusts himself to throw him passes in tight coverage.


I don't agree at all with struggling to create separation. He probably played against guys with superior speed at all levels. Guys like him create better more consistent separation with his bread and butter, and will always be able to do so. What is his bread and butter? Precise routes, sharp breaks, and repetitive execution. Selling the route is worth everything. Why will he always be able to do so? Because his coverage opponent will almost always be a guy who has superior physical skills and lesser fundamentals. The league is crammed with 90% guys who don't execute well enough and don't learn or don't think they have anything to learn. They can always be beat by another guy who understands the game better, is more disciplined, and executes better.


I disagree. I didnt see enough seperation at the college level, so that's not going to improve against superior competition. At best, he'll carve out a nich as a Jason Avont/Brandon Stokely type slot WR. Able to make tough catches on underneath routes in traffic if given a clean release, but offers little else. He has the skillset to be really good. Just not the physical talent to IMO.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The article also brings up another point:

Quote:
Vernon is already shaping up to force Dennis Allen to make a tough decision. There are currently seven receivers who are worthy of making the regular season roster. Most teams don't carry a maximum of six receivers. The one reason the Raiders could opt for seven is two of them are pulling double duty as return men - Josh Cribbs and Jacoby Ford.

....

The current wide receivers who all have a legitimate shot at making the roster are Denarius Moore, Juron Criner, Brice Butler, Streater, Cribbs, Ford, and Vernon. It's a good problem to have.


Wonder who would be getting the boot? There has been talk on here of Cribbs starting off on PUP. Ford could be a surprise cut (which I would hate). Vernon or Butler are PS eligible, but are possibly guys that could be signed to other active rosters. Same could be said of Criner imo; I think he's still PS eligible but I could be wrong. I could see NE signing Vernon if we PS him. I haven't mentioned, Moore but I doubt he would get cut. Maybe traded though.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
The article also brings up another point:

Quote:
Vernon is already shaping up to force Dennis Allen to make a tough decision. There are currently seven receivers who are worthy of making the regular season roster. Most teams don't carry a maximum of six receivers. The one reason the Raiders could opt for seven is two of them are pulling double duty as return men - Josh Cribbs and Jacoby Ford.

....

The current wide receivers who all have a legitimate shot at making the roster are Denarius Moore, Juron Criner, Brice Butler, Streater, Cribbs, Ford, and Vernon. It's a good problem to have.


Wonder who would be getting the boot? There has been talk on here of Cribbs starting off on PUP. Ford could be a surprise cut (which I would hate). Vernon or Butler are PS eligible, but are possibly guys that could be signed to other active rosters. Same could be said of Criner imo; I think he's still PS eligible but I could be wrong. I could see NE signing Vernon if we PS him. I haven't mentioned, Moore but I doubt he would get cut. Maybe traded though.


That would be an enormous suprise and frankly I just don't see them entertaining that idea. Moore, Ford and Streater are locked in to Reggie's and DA's plans (Ford was supposed to be a huge part of the O last year I believe). Criner, Butler, Cribbs and Vernon are fighting it out for 3 spots.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
The article also brings up another point:

Quote:
Vernon is already shaping up to force Dennis Allen to make a tough decision. There are currently seven receivers who are worthy of making the regular season roster. Most teams don't carry a maximum of six receivers. The one reason the Raiders could opt for seven is two of them are pulling double duty as return men - Josh Cribbs and Jacoby Ford.

....

The current wide receivers who all have a legitimate shot at making the roster are Denarius Moore, Juron Criner, Brice Butler, Streater, Cribbs, Ford, and Vernon. It's a good problem to have.


Wonder who would be getting the boot? There has been talk on here of Cribbs starting off on PUP. Ford could be a surprise cut (which I would hate). Vernon or Butler are PS eligible, but are possibly guys that could be signed to other active rosters. Same could be said of Criner imo; I think he's still PS eligible but I could be wrong. I could see NE signing Vernon if we PS him. I haven't mentioned, Moore but I doubt he would get cut. Maybe traded though.


Really going to depend on how well Butler/Vernon show in camp and preseason. Are they both worth keeping on the active roster, I doubt it.

If it come to it, keep 7 and thin out another position.

Cribbs IMO is going to be a guy to watch. If someone can take over KR/PR duties he's an odd man out as he's not much or a receiving threat.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
The article also brings up another point:

Quote:
Vernon is already shaping up to force Dennis Allen to make a tough decision. There are currently seven receivers who are worthy of making the regular season roster. Most teams don't carry a maximum of six receivers. The one reason the Raiders could opt for seven is two of them are pulling double duty as return men - Josh Cribbs and Jacoby Ford.

....

The current wide receivers who all have a legitimate shot at making the roster are Denarius Moore, Juron Criner, Brice Butler, Streater, Cribbs, Ford, and Vernon. It's a good problem to have.


Wonder who would be getting the boot? There has been talk on here of Cribbs starting off on PUP. Ford could be a surprise cut (which I would hate). Vernon or Butler are PS eligible, but are possibly guys that could be signed to other active rosters. Same could be said of Criner imo; I think he's still PS eligible but I could be wrong. I could see NE signing Vernon if we PS him. I haven't mentioned, Moore but I doubt he would get cut. Maybe traded though.


That would be an enormous suprise and frankly I just don't see them entertaining that idea. Moore, Ford and Streater are locked in to Reggie's and DA's plans (Ford was supposed to be a huge part of the O last year I believe). Criner, Butler, Cribbs and Vernon are fighting it out for 3 spots.


That's basically how I see it as well. Though I look at it like this: they have no obligations to Moore or Ford as picks of the previous regime. They both get hurt a little too much (more Ford) and struggle with drops from time to time (more DSmooth). Plus we gave good old Derek Hagan a try out. I highly doubt Moore or Ford get cut, but I can't stop thinking its possible. More likely though, they trade one like Murphy.
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OakRaiders3828


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Darkness wrote:
If only he was faster. He's a really skilled WR, but he'll struggle to create seperation and won't offer much after the catch. It's gonna take a QB who really trusts himself to throw him passes in tight coverage.


I don't agree at all with struggling to create separation. He probably played against guys with superior speed at all levels. Guys like him create better more consistent separation with his bread and butter, and will always be able to do so. What is his bread and butter? Precise routes, sharp breaks, and repetitive execution. Selling the route is worth everything. Why will he always be able to do so? Because his coverage opponent will almost always be a guy who has superior physical skills and lesser fundamentals. The league is crammed with 90% guys who don't execute well enough and don't learn or don't think they have anything to learn. They can always be beat by another guy who understands the game better, is more disciplined, and executes better.


I disagree. I didnt see enough seperation at the college level, so that's not going to improve against superior competition. At best, he'll carve out a nich as a Jason Avont/Brandon Stokely type slot WR. Able to make tough catches on underneath routes in traffic if given a clean release, but offers little else. He has the skillset to be really good. Just not the physical talent to IMO.


He always had the ability to get open, which is why he was Renfrees favorite target, because he was consistent. He might not have the burst or whatever, but he understands routes, is quick and has excellent footwork. You don't become the ACC all time leader in receptions with the inability to get open. Separation can be caused by many things, not just speed.

I also like his ability to catch in traffic and in front of DB's.
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