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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Well, why was Woodson better??


You of all people should know why. Haven't you complained that CBs don't make enough of an impact on a defense? He's the poster boy for CBs that do. In his time here, he was a solid tackler and solid vs the run, a good blitzer, created turnovers (both fumbles and interceptions) and could blanket receivers.

Nnamdi had next to no turnovers once teams started avoiding him. He stunk as a tackler and was worthless in the run game at times. As great as Nnam was in coverage a lot of the time, there is zero doubt in my mind who I would prefer on my team in a Prime Aso vs Prime Woody debate.


But it's not like Nnamdi didn't have the ability not to. He was just never asked to and people didn't give him the chance to do what he did best. I don't feel we can fault him for that.

Woodson was definitely asked to do more but that's b/c he was better in other aspects, but as I just wrote, it's not like that gaps were as large as they were when it came to Nnamdi in coverage. I don't think I've seen a CB better at coverage and IMO, he was just that much better than Woodson. It's not like it's unheard of to put him over. IMO, it's like debating between and A+ and an A
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Well, why was Woodson better??


You of all people should know why. Haven't you complained that CBs don't make enough of an impact on a defense? He's the poster boy for CBs that do. In his time here, he was a solid tackler and solid vs the run, a good blitzer, created turnovers (both fumbles and interceptions) and could blanket receivers.

Nnamdi had next to no turnovers once teams started avoiding him. He stunk as a tackler and was worthless in the run game at times. As great as Nnam was in coverage a lot of the time, there is zero doubt in my mind who I would prefer on my team in a Prime Aso vs Prime Woody debate.


But it's not like Nnamdi didn't have the ability not to. He was just never asked to and people didn't give him the chance to do what he did best. I don't feel we can fault him for that.

Woodson was definitely asked to do more but that's b/c he was better in other aspects, but as I just wrote, it's not like that gaps were as large as they were when it came to Nnamdi in coverage. I don't think I've seen a CB better at coverage and IMO, he was just that much better than Woodson. It's not like it's unheard of to put him over. IMO, it's like debating between and A+ and an A


Woodson would be the A+ then. Don't believe me? Watch Nnamdi play zone in Philly and let the lulz flow. Or even just watch him try to cover Victor Cruz at all.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Well, why was Woodson better??


You of all people should know why. Haven't you complained that CBs don't make enough of an impact on a defense? He's the poster boy for CBs that do. In his time here, he was a solid tackler and solid vs the run, a good blitzer, created turnovers (both fumbles and interceptions) and could blanket receivers.

Nnamdi had next to no turnovers once teams started avoiding him. He stunk as a tackler and was worthless in the run game at times. As great as Nnam was in coverage a lot of the time, there is zero doubt in my mind who I would prefer on my team in a Prime Aso vs Prime Woody debate.


But it's not like Nnamdi didn't have the ability not to. He was just never asked to and people didn't give him the chance to do what he did best. I don't feel we can fault him for that.

Woodson was definitely asked to do more but that's b/c he was better in other aspects, but as I just wrote, it's not like that gaps were as large as they were when it came to Nnamdi in coverage. I don't think I've seen a CB better at coverage and IMO, he was just that much better than Woodson. It's not like it's unheard of to put him over. IMO, it's like debating between and A+ and an A


Woodson would be the A+ then. Don't believe me? Watch Nnamdi play zone in Philly and let the lulz flow. Or even just watch him try to cover Victor Cruz at all.


I was strictly comparing their tenure w/ us, nothing else. But yes, Nnamdi in zone can't even being to compare to him in man, like we used him, like he should only be used.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Well, why was Woodson better??


You of all people should know why. Haven't you complained that CBs don't make enough of an impact on a defense? He's the poster boy for CBs that do. In his time here, he was a solid tackler and solid vs the run, a good blitzer, created turnovers (both fumbles and interceptions) and could blanket receivers.

Nnamdi had next to no turnovers once teams started avoiding him. He stunk as a tackler and was worthless in the run game at times. As great as Nnam was in coverage a lot of the time, there is zero doubt in my mind who I would prefer on my team in a Prime Aso vs Prime Woody debate.


But it's not like Nnamdi didn't have the ability not to. He was just never asked to and people didn't give him the chance to do what he did best. I don't feel we can fault him for that.

Woodson was definitely asked to do more but that's b/c he was better in other aspects, but as I just wrote, it's not like that gaps were as large as they were when it came to Nnamdi in coverage. I don't think I've seen a CB better at coverage and IMO, he was just that much better than Woodson. It's not like it's unheard of to put him over. IMO, it's like debating between and A+ and an A


Woodson would be the A+ then. Don't believe me? Watch Nnamdi play zone in Philly and let the lulz flow. Or even just watch him try to cover Victor Cruz at all.


I was strictly comparing their tenure w/ us, nothing else. But yes, Nnamdi in zone can't even being to compare to him in man, like we used him, like he should only be used.


I don't think you can play it that way if you're debating which player is better overall, which I thought we were doing. But even then, in that case I still take Woodson because he got more turnovers and was better at tackling and in run support.
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raidr4life


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al shouldn't have never let C Wood get away, we could have had him and Aso in their prime.

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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:

I don't think you can play it that way if you're debating which player is better overall, which I thought we were doing. But even then, in that case I still take Woodson because he got more turnovers and was better at tackling and in run support.


If we're going by other teams, I'd take Woodson. I was strictly going by here b/c I don't feel Nnamdi was used correctly in Philly b/c he wasn't.

Again, the numbers are skewed here b/c Nnamdi had the respect of every coach in the NFL and majority of QBs and for good reason. Woodson had plenty more opportunities to make plays and I believe if Nnamdi were given those chances, he'd have more turnovers. Plus it took Nnamdi a couple years to get going while Woodson was great right off the bat. Then again, I put more emphasis on coverage b/c it is the primary job of that positon. You don't so obviously our opinions will differ and I have no problems w/ that.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:

I don't think you can play it that way if you're debating which player is better overall, which I thought we were doing. But even then, in that case I still take Woodson because he got more turnovers and was better at tackling and in run support.


If we're going by other teams, I'd take Woodson. I was strictly going by here b/c I don't feel Nnamdi was used correctly in Philly b/c he wasn't.

Again, the numbers are skewed here b/c Nnamdi had the respect of every coach in the NFL and majority of QBs and for good reason. Woodson had plenty more opportunities to make plays and I believe if Nnamdi were given those chances, he'd have more turnovers. Plus it took Nnamdi a couple years to get going while Woodson was great right off the bat. Then again, I put more emphasis on coverage b/c it is the primary job of that positon. You don't so obviously our opinions will differ and I have no problems w/ that.


You can't base it completely off what the did when they were here and then say Nnamdi would have done more than he did and use that. He did what he did. That's what you have to use in comparison. Sure maybe he might have been able to do more (which I'm skeptical of), but he didn't. He was the perfect man cover guy, but the fact is that he wasn't good for much else.


And Nnamdi AND CWood would have been legendary.
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nbaker1933


Joined: 31 May 2011
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Well, why was Woodson better??


You of all people should know why. Haven't you complained that CBs don't make enough of an impact on a defense? He's the poster boy for CBs that do. In his time here, he was a solid tackler and solid vs the run, a good blitzer, created turnovers (both fumbles and interceptions) and could blanket receivers.

Nnamdi had next to no turnovers once teams started avoiding him. He stunk as a tackler and was worthless in the run game at times. As great as Nnam was in coverage a lot of the time, there is zero doubt in my mind who I would prefer on my team in a Prime Aso vs Prime Woody debate.


But it's not like Nnamdi didn't have the ability not to. He was just never asked to and people didn't give him the chance to do what he did best. I don't feel we can fault him for that.

Woodson was definitely asked to do more but that's b/c he was better in other aspects, but as I just wrote, it's not like that gaps were as large as they were when it came to Nnamdi in coverage. I don't think I've seen a CB better at coverage and IMO, he was just that much better than Woodson. It's not like it's unheard of to put him over. IMO, it's like debating between and A+ and an A


Woodson would be the A+ then. Don't believe me? Watch Nnamdi play zone in Philly and let the lulz flow. Or even just watch him try to cover Victor Cruz at all.


My assumption was the discussion of Nnamdi as a Raider, not as an Eagle.
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DirtyHarry


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did this turn into an aso vs woody debate ? Lol. Anyways for what it's worth I remember in 03 Minnesota came to Oakland and Woodson held a prime Randy Moss in check. 4 catches I believe always found that impressive.
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BlackPrestige92


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyHarry wrote:
How did this turn into an aso vs woody debate ? Lol. Anyways for what it's worth I remember in 03 Minnesota came to Oakland and Woodson held a prime Randy Moss in check. 4 catches I believe always found that impressive.

I was just a kid and still remember when Philipp Buchanon got that pick 6.

Great day.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyHarry wrote:
How did this turn into an aso vs woody debate ? Lol. Anyways for what it's worth I remember in 03 Minnesota came to Oakland and Woodson held a prime Randy Moss in check. 4 catches I believe always found that impressive.


LOL B/c we have nothing else to talk about Smile

Aso held numerous WRs to.... I don't even know. I just remember one year, I think he only had like 12 catches against him the entire season. I'd have to dig up the stats b/c that seems very low but I remember the number was stupid low. I think he only had like 33 targets that season also. If that isn't respect and production to match then I don't know what is.

OK so I went and looked it up to be accurate.

Here's the season recap:

Quote:
1. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland Raiders
Season Totals: 29 attempts, 4.97 YPA, 62.07 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 1 INT

My two cents: Was this the best season every for a CB? Asomugha was only thrown at 29 times the entire season and allowed just 9 receptions. He allowed two catches (both to Tony Gonzalez) over an eight game span in the middle of the season. He allowed 144 yards receiving for the season, and 46 of those came on one play against the Chargers where he misjudged an underthrown pass to Vincent Jackson. If a CB has had a better season than this, I'd like to see the numbers.


Those numbers alone are just insane. There was no one better at the position than when he was w/ us. Period.
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CrapTakula


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
DirtyHarry wrote:
How did this turn into an aso vs woody debate ? Lol. Anyways for what it's worth I remember in 03 Minnesota came to Oakland and Woodson held a prime Randy Moss in check. 4 catches I believe always found that impressive.


LOL B/c we have nothing else to talk about Smile

Aso held numerous WRs to.... I don't even know. I just remember one year, I think he only had like 12 catches against him the entire season. I'd have to dig up the stats b/c that seems very low but I remember the number was stupid low. I think he only had like 33 targets that season also. If that isn't respect and production to match then I don't know what is.

OK so I went and looked it up to be accurate.

Here's the season recap:

Quote:
1. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland Raiders
Season Totals: 29 attempts, 4.97 YPA, 62.07 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 1 INT

My two cents: Was this the best season every for a CB? Asomugha was only thrown at 29 times the entire season and allowed just 9 receptions. He allowed two catches (both to Tony Gonzalez) over an eight game span in the middle of the season. He allowed 144 yards receiving for the season, and 46 of those came on one play against the Chargers where he misjudged an underthrown pass to Vincent Jackson. If a CB has had a better season than this, I'd like to see the numbers.


Those numbers alone are just insane. There was no one better at the position than when he was w/ us. Period.


He certainly was awesome, but... Wasn't that the year that anyone could run on us and pass freely to the other side of the field? If I remember right no one bothered challenging Aso because they could beat us pretty easily without having to bother.
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bitty


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
DirtyHarry wrote:
How did this turn into an aso vs woody debate ? Lol. Anyways for what it's worth I remember in 03 Minnesota came to Oakland and Woodson held a prime Randy Moss in check. 4 catches I believe always found that impressive.


LOL B/c we have nothing else to talk about Smile

Aso held numerous WRs to.... I don't even know. I just remember one year, I think he only had like 12 catches against him the entire season. I'd have to dig up the stats b/c that seems very low but I remember the number was stupid low. I think he only had like 33 targets that season also. If that isn't respect and production to match then I don't know what is.

OK so I went and looked it up to be accurate.

Here's the season recap:

Quote:
1. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland Raiders
Season Totals: 29 attempts, 4.97 YPA, 62.07 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 1 INT

My two cents: Was this the best season every for a CB? Asomugha was only thrown at 29 times the entire season and allowed just 9 receptions. He allowed two catches (both to Tony Gonzalez) over an eight game span in the middle of the season. He allowed 144 yards receiving for the season, and 46 of those came on one play against the Chargers where he misjudged an underthrown pass to Vincent Jackson. If a CB has had a better season than this, I'd like to see the numbers.


Those numbers alone are just insane. There was no one better at the position than when he was w/ us. Period.


Here's the other side of that argument. Did teams avoid Aso because he was so good or did they just run the ball instead?
The Raiders gave up 133 yards per game and 4.5 per attempt.
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Frankie2Gunz


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woodson was a better player than Aso when both were in their prime no matter how you stack it. I do think Aso will have a pro bowl type season for the 9ers this year.
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:

I don't think you can play it that way if you're debating which player is better overall, which I thought we were doing. But even then, in that case I still take Woodson because he got more turnovers and was better at tackling and in run support.


If we're going by other teams, I'd take Woodson. I was strictly going by here b/c I don't feel Nnamdi was used correctly in Philly b/c he wasn't.

Again, the numbers are skewed here b/c Nnamdi had the respect of every coach in the NFL and majority of QBs and for good reason. Woodson had plenty more opportunities to make plays and I believe if Nnamdi were given those chances, he'd have more turnovers. Plus it took Nnamdi a couple years to get going while Woodson was great right off the bat. Then again, I put more emphasis on coverage b/c it is the primary job of that positon. You don't so obviously our opinions will differ and I have no problems w/ that.


Now I could be wrong, but IIRC didnt QBs shy away from Woodson quite a bit, even back in his Oakland days? I am fairly certain I remember QBs avoiding him but he still created turnovers in his limited chances. Again, could be wrong because it was forever ago.
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